Tank in a downward spiral, need some help

[CoreyT355]

Hi all, I'll try to not ramble on, but my tank has been in a downward spiral for 3 or 4 weeks now, and I am really struggling to find out what to do here.

Tank is a Fluval Evo 13.5, running since 7-25-2021. Light is a Fluval Marine LED 3.0, Sicce Syncra Silent 1.0, AI Nero 3, InTank Chamber 1 media basket with poly pad, and marine pure gems. No carbon or chemipure.

Params as of today:
Temp: 77.9
Salinity: 1.06
Ammonia: 0.2, typically it has been 0.0, this is new.
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 6 (it's definitely not a 2 or a 5 on the color chart, so I am guessing here a bit)
Ph: 8.2
Calcium: 420 (this was higher last week at 450)
Magnesium: 1400 (higher last week at 1480)
Alkalinity: 9 dKH
Phosphate: 0.04

Livestock:
3 Astraea Turbo Snails
2 Margarita Snails
1 Fighting Conch
Bicolor Blenny
2 Clownfish

Corals:
Hammer
Acan
2 zoa frags, and some clove polyps on also on one of the frags

So the issue I'm having here is that the snails, not the conch so much, were moving around a ton in the tank early on. They went in first and were cleaning the tank really well.4 weeks ago, the margaritas just stopped moving. They are not dead. I thought they were, grabbed them with the tongs, and they popped out right away to see what's up. At this time the turbos were still fine. Two weeks after that the turbos started slowing down as well. They also exhibit what I think is weird behavior where they like stretch out hanging off the side of the glass. They also seem to fall off the rocks a ton. I have to pick them up multiple times a day now. My corals are dying slowly. The hammer is doing the best out of the bunch, but is not as full and open as it used to be. My zoas do not open ever, and the cloves are open maybe an hour in the daytime. The acan is sometimes full looking, other times it is deflated, and looks skeletal to me. It never puts it's tentacles out to eat anymore.

This whole time the fish have been fine. The blenny had a fight with some flukes over a month ago. I used Seachem Metroplex and Focus, and a freshwater dip really killed them off. This whole time everything else was still going fine. Corals out and appearing to be happy. Snails doing fine as well.

When I was done with the metroplex, I tested, nitrates were at 10, so I did a 40% water change, and put in Chemipure Elite. That water change I also did with Instant Ocean Reef Crystals for the first time. I was using premixed Seapro and Nutri Seawater before. The next day everything started to go downhill. Within 24 hours I had brown all over my rocks near the pump return, specifically that side, nothing on the far side of the tank yet. I did the test with a paper towel to see if it was dinos. Assuming I did it right, it was not, and still isn't now.

Testing the water after the Chemipure in showed phosphates at 0 and nitrate went from 10 to 5. Nothing else changed parameter wise. I freaked out, asked on Facebook, took out the Chemipure after 3 or 4 days on the advice I got there.

Since then I have not done any water changes, as both my LFSs have suggested getting nitrates back up, closer to 10, and phosphates around 0.03.

I also found out last week my pH tanked from 8.0 to 7.8. I got AquaVitro Balancefrom an LFS suggestion, and have had the pH back up at 8.2 for about a week now. I'm trying to hit 8.3, but I wanted to bring it up slowly, and certainly not overdose and screw things up worse.

Right now my tank is getting lot's of algae, some green now too though not hair algae from what I can see. I assume this is at least in some part due to the CUC not being active. I honestly have no idea what to do anymore. My LFS said the zoas are not dead after seeing a picture. They are there, like closed up buds, but I have not seen any of them open in weeks. The hammer is more closed up the past couple of days as I have been bringing the pH back up as well.

I'm not sure if I should do a water change, if so small or large, or if I should get the premix stuff back in there. Are the corals all toast, except maybe the hammer, and I should toss them and let the tank recover and stabilize? Not sure if adding in a couple more snails might help. Adding anything living right now seems like a very bad idea, but something needs to eat this algae. I'm hoping some of you on here can give me some direction.

I attached some pics of the corals and tank. The one with the green was right after I fed AB+ (I have not done that this week as things got worse), and just shows what the tank looked like before everything went haywaire. Second pic is now, with the white turned up to show the algae and distressed corals. Last pic shows the acan, with what looks like a dead/dying polyp in there.

Happy to answer anything I can, or get pics of anything if needed. Thanks for reading my rambling post.

 

[blaxsun]

Salinity is 1.06 or 1.026? How often (and what amount) do you perform water changes?

 

[Ultra Aquatics]

Sounds like you did too much too soon. Few suggestions:

1. stop dosing ph buffer, it doesn’t last and will just raise alk.
2. Get nitrate back to 10ish and phosphates more than 0.
3. Keep parameters stable and maybe add some more clean up crew if necessary.

 

[IslandLifeReef]

Like was said above, I think you mistyped your salinity.

The next question I would have is what did you use for water when mixing the salt? Since you were using premixed saltwater before, I would look at the new water source as the probable cause of you issues first.

 

[CoreyT355]

Salinity is 1.06 or 1.026? How often (and what amount) do you perform water changes?

Whoops, sorry it's 1.026. I was doing weekly changes. It's been 2 weeks since my last change as everyone told me to stop and get nitrates up. I was taking out ~4 gallons, which is around 40%.

Like was said above, I think you mistyped your salinity.

The next question I would have is what did you use for water when mixing the salt? Since you were using premixed saltwater before, I would look at the new water source as the probable cause of you issues first.

I used RODI from my LFS. I don't know the TDS of the water. Best I can say is they use it themselves, and plenty of others do as well without them mentioning issues when I was talking to them about the problems.

 

[Rick's Reviews]

Hi all, I'll try to not ramble on, but my tank has been in a downward spiral for 3 or 4 weeks now, and I am really struggling to find out what to do here.

Tank is a Fluval Evo 13.5, running since 7-25-2021. Light is a Fluval Marine LED 3.0, Sicce Syncra Silent 1.0, AI Nero 3, InTank Chamber 1 media basket with poly pad, and marine pure gems. No carbon or chemipure.

Params as of today:
Temp: 77.9
Salinity: 1.06
Ammonia: 0.2, typically it has been 0.0, this is new.
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 6 (it's definitely not a 2 or a 5 on the color chart, so I am guessing here a bit)
Ph: 8.2
Calcium: 420 (this was higher last week at 450)
Magnesium: 1400 (higher last week at 1480)
Alkalinity: 9 dKH
Phosphate: 0.04

Livestock:
3 Astraea Turbo Snails
2 Margarita Snails
1 Fighting Conch
Bicolor Blenny
2 Clownfish

Corals:
Hammer
Acan
2 zoa frags, and some clove polyps on also on one of the frags

So the issue I'm having here is that the snails, not the conch so much, were moving around a ton in the tank early on. They went in first and were cleaning the tank really well.4 weeks ago, the margaritas just stopped moving. They are not dead. I thought they were, grabbed them with the tongs, and they popped out right away to see what's up. At this time the turbos were still fine. Two weeks after that the turbos started slowing down as well. They also exhibit what I think is weird behavior where they like stretch out hanging off the side of the glass. They also seem to fall off the rocks a ton. I have to pick them up multiple times a day now. My corals are dying slowly. The hammer is doing the best out of the bunch, but is not as full and open as it used to be. My zoas do not open ever, and the cloves are open maybe an hour in the daytime. The acan is sometimes full looking, other times it is deflated, and looks skeletal to me. It never puts it's tentacles out to eat anymore.

This whole time the fish have been fine. The blenny had a fight with some flukes over a month ago. I used Seachem Metroplex and Focus, and a freshwater dip really killed them off. This whole time everything else was still going fine. Corals out and appearing to be happy. Snails doing fine as well.

When I was done with the metroplex, I tested, nitrates were at 10, so I did a 40% water change, and put in Chemipure Elite. That water change I also did with Instant Ocean Reef Crystals for the first time. I was using premixed Seapro and Nutri Seawater before. The next day everything started to go downhill. Within 24 hours I had brown all over my rocks near the pump return, specifically that side, nothing on the far side of the tank yet. I did the test with a paper towel to see if it was dinos. Assuming I did it right, it was not, and still isn't now.

Testing the water after the Chemipure in showed phosphates at 0 and nitrate went from 10 to 5. Nothing else changed parameter wise. I freaked out, asked on Facebook, took out the Chemipure after 3 or 4 days on the advice I got there.

Since then I have not done any water changes, as both my LFSs have suggested getting nitrates back up, closer to 10, and phosphates around 0.03.

I also found out last week my pH tanked from 8.0 to 7.8. I got AquaVitro Balancefrom an LFS suggestion, and have had the pH back up at 8.2 for about a week now. I'm trying to hit 8.3, but I wanted to bring it up slowly, and certainly not overdose and screw things up worse.

Right now my tank is getting lot's of algae, some green now too though not hair algae from what I can see. I assume this is at least in some part due to the CUC not being active. I honestly have no idea what to do anymore. My LFS said the zoas are not dead after seeing a picture. They are there, like closed up buds, but I have not seen any of them open in weeks. The hammer is more closed up the past couple of days as I have been bringing the pH back up as well.

I'm not sure if I should do a water change, if so small or large, or if I should get the premix stuff back in there. Are the corals all toast, except maybe the hammer, and I should toss them and let the tank recover and stabilize? Not sure if adding in a couple more snails might help. Adding anything living right now seems like a very bad idea, but something needs to eat this algae. I'm hoping some of you on here can give me some direction.

I attached some pics of the corals and tank. The one with the green was right after I fed AB+ (I have not done that this week as things got worse), and just shows what the tank looked like before everything went haywaire. Second pic is now, with the white turned up to show the algae and distressed corals. Last pic shows the acan, with what looks like a dead/dying polyp in there.

Happy to answer anything I can, or get pics of anything if needed. Thanks for reading my rambling post.

For me I would say 'obviously' green algae then normal brown algae, this shows your beneficial bacteria is working, however your lighting is feeding this hence why it not fully covered your sand, and areas around your corals are still white, I think you should turn down your lights for a start

 

[CoreyT355]

For me I would say 'obviously' green algae then normal brown algae, this shows your beneficial bacteria is working, however your lighting is feeding this hence why it not fully covered your sand, and areas around your corals are still white, I think you should turn down your lights for a start

The lighting has been one of the toughest things. I can't seem to find many recommendations for that light. I've tried dropping the whites, or even off entirely. Not sure what I should use as a setting to try and keep the coral alive.

 

[CoreyT355]

Sounds like you did too much too soon. Few suggestions:

1. stop dosing ph buffer, it doesn’t last and will just raise alk.
2. Get nitrate back to 10ish and phosphates more than 0.
3. Keep parameters stable and maybe add some more clean up crew if necessary.

1 - The stuff my LFS gave me is supposed to not do that. So far after a week it is still at 9. That's been very stable since startup actually. If I stop the buffer, and my pH goes down to 7.8 again, what else do I do to get it back up?

2 - Nitrates has been a struggle to get up again. I was told maybe to add in an extra small feeding each day to get some more ammonia being created and converted. Is there anything else I can do to add nitrates?

3 - I am thinking adding 2 more of each snail might be my next step. They'll add some bioload and maybe help increase the nitrates, plus eating algae. Hopefully.

Have you, or anyone really, ever heard of turbo snails acting like I described? Stretched out hanging off the glass? Falling off things all the time? It seems like something is messing with their ability to hold on to things.

And is there any other way to test for dinos? I've read that some dinos can be super toxic, and thought maybe I that's the issue, and I am just not seeing it.

 

[Danroo]

Your corals not doing well is a sign of them losing the battle with the algae. You need avoid adding to much chemicals and just rely on carbon, filter floss a sponge and your live rocks.

 

[Danroo]

you need to add tuxedo urchin to get rid of that algae. No its not Dinos it’s blue and green algae and huge amounts of diatoms.

 

[Rick's Reviews]

I'm unsure of your corals but mine was 'pic included'. I also had green Star, only surviving today is mushroom and green Star, my lights was the main reasons the others did not survive,
I would look at your lighting, I have viparspectra 165w , currently running at %60 blue and %1. White. So minimum white 1 for only 4 hours a day blues at 8hrs, i have brough a UV light which has changed everything, my aquriam is so clear however, I'm only using when whites are on, £33 , it has made a massive difference in my water quality and cleaned all green up

 

[fachatga]

Your tank is less than 3 months old. First thing I’ll say is stay calm. It’s really early to achieve stability. So do things slowly. 40% water changes is a lot and not necessary to fix nitrates which were not high. It’s best not to chase specific numbers but find your tanks equilibrium in a good range which I think it was. And buffer is not a great way to manage ph but also .2 change isn’t tanking. It changes more than that from morning to night anyway. Make sure you always test dame tome of the day for ph. Better aeration often can help that. Search raise ph here and you’ll find tons of information. But you’ll be fine. Just take it slowly. It’s early. Don’t try to fix things quickly. It will make things worse quite often.

 

[attiland]

Hi all, I'll try to not ramble on, but my tank has been in a downward spiral for 3 or 4 weeks now, and I am really struggling to find out what to do here.

Tank is a Fluval Evo 13.5, running since 7-25-2021. Light is a Fluval Marine LED 3.0, Sicce Syncra Silent 1.0, AI Nero 3, InTank Chamber 1 media basket with poly pad, and marine pure gems. No carbon or chemipure.

Params as of today:
Temp: 77.9
Salinity: 1.06
Ammonia: 0.2, typically it has been 0.0, this is new.
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 6 (it's definitely not a 2 or a 5 on the color chart, so I am guessing here a bit)
Ph: 8.2
Calcium: 420 (this was higher last week at 450)
Magnesium: 1400 (higher last week at 1480)
Alkalinity: 9 dKH
Phosphate: 0.04

Livestock:
3 Astraea Turbo Snails
2 Margarita Snails
1 Fighting Conch
Bicolor Blenny
2 Clownfish

Corals:
Hammer
Acan
2 zoa frags, and some clove polyps on also on one of the frags

So the issue I'm having here is that the snails, not the conch so much, were moving around a ton in the tank early on. They went in first and were cleaning the tank really well.4 weeks ago, the margaritas just stopped moving. They are not dead. I thought they were, grabbed them with the tongs, and they popped out right away to see what's up. At this time the turbos were still fine. Two weeks after that the turbos started slowing down as well. They also exhibit what I think is weird behavior where they like stretch out hanging off the side of the glass. They also seem to fall off the rocks a ton. I have to pick them up multiple times a day now. My corals are dying slowly. The hammer is doing the best out of the bunch, but is not as full and open as it used to be. My zoas do not open ever, and the cloves are open maybe an hour in the daytime. The acan is sometimes full looking, other times it is deflated, and looks skeletal to me. It never puts it's tentacles out to eat anymore.

This whole time the fish have been fine. The blenny had a fight with some flukes over a month ago. I used Seachem Metroplex and Focus, and a freshwater dip really killed them off. This whole time everything else was still going fine. Corals out and appearing to be happy. Snails doing fine as well.

When I was done with the metroplex, I tested, nitrates were at 10, so I did a 40% water change, and put in Chemipure Elite. That water change I also did with Instant Ocean Reef Crystals for the first time. I was using premixed Seapro and Nutri Seawater before. The next day everything started to go downhill. Within 24 hours I had brown all over my rocks near the pump return, specifically that side, nothing on the far side of the tank yet. I did the test with a paper towel to see if it was dinos. Assuming I did it right, it was not, and still isn't now.

Testing the water after the Chemipure in showed phosphates at 0 and nitrate went from 10 to 5. Nothing else changed parameter wise. I freaked out, asked on Facebook, took out the Chemipure after 3 or 4 days on the advice I got there.

Since then I have not done any water changes, as both my LFSs have suggested getting nitrates back up, closer to 10, and phosphates around 0.03.

I also found out last week my pH tanked from 8.0 to 7.8. I got AquaVitro Balancefrom an LFS suggestion, and have had the pH back up at 8.2 for about a week now. I'm trying to hit 8.3, but I wanted to bring it up slowly, and certainly not overdose and screw things up worse.

Right now my tank is getting lot's of algae, some green now too though not hair algae from what I can see. I assume this is at least in some part due to the CUC not being active. I honestly have no idea what to do anymore. My LFS said the zoas are not dead after seeing a picture. They are there, like closed up buds, but I have not seen any of them open in weeks. The hammer is more closed up the past couple of days as I have been bringing the pH back up as well.

I'm not sure if I should do a water change, if so small or large, or if I should get the premix stuff back in there. Are the corals all toast, except maybe the hammer, and I should toss them and let the tank recover and stabilize? Not sure if adding in a couple more snails might help. Adding anything living right now seems like a very bad idea, but something needs to eat this algae. I'm hoping some of you on here can give me some direction.

I attached some pics of the corals and tank. The one with the green was right after I fed AB+ (I have not done that this week as things got worse), and just shows what the tank looked like before everything went haywaire. Second pic is now, with the white turned up to show the algae and distressed corals. Last pic shows the acan, with what looks like a dead/dying polyp in there.

Happy to answer anything I can, or get pics of anything if needed. Thanks for reading my rambling post.

What stands out is the snails slow down and fall from the rocks and glass. This is usually magnesium and or poisoning.
your magnesium is still on the higher end but I had similar symptoms when my mg was similar level and it was together with small cell Amphidinium. You can not be sure not sure that brown stuff is not Dinos as it has to be confirmed with microscope. Mine looked the same in the beginning.
unlikely diatoms unless you have a new source of silicates.
The other thing stands out to me is you do 40% water changes. That is way too much. Makes your parameters swing.

Here is what I would do.
1. stop Chemipure. Your parameters not indicate you need it
2. Get a used microscope (~£30 on eBay) and ID the brown stuff. Once you know what are you dealing with you have a better chance to do the right thing.
3. green algae is ok. If get too much get out some by hand.
4. run activated carbon. You can’t go wrong here but your snails may give you a kiss for it.
5. forget your ph for now. If worries you add an air stone to your sump/back chambers. If it is above your return pump it can make magic. Trust me I am doing it. Never use ph buffers again.
6. don’t mess with the lights if corals were happy before.
7. don’t add more snails just yet. The ones you have are not happy. Work out what makes them happy first.
8. change only one thing at a time; always

 

[CoreyT355]

What stands out is the snails slow down and fall from the rocks and glass. This is usually magnesium and or poisoning.
your magnesium is still on the higher end but I had similar symptoms when my mg was similar level and it was together with small cell Amphidinium. You can not be sure not sure that brown stuff is not Dinos as it has to be confirmed with microscope. Mine looked the same in the beginning.
unlikely diatoms unless you have a new source of silicates.
The other thing stands out to me is you do 40% water changes. That is way too much. Makes your parameters swing.

Here is what I would do.
1. stop Chemipure. Your parameters not indicate you need it
2. Get a used microscope (~£30 on eBay) and ID the brown stuff. Once you know what are you dealing with you have a better chance to do the right thing.
3. green algae is ok. If get too much get out some by hand.
4. run activated carbon. You can’t go wrong here but your snails may give you a kiss for it.
5. forget your ph for now. If worries you add an air stone to your sump/back chambers. If it is above your return pump it can make magic. Trust me I am doing it. Never use ph buffers again.
6. don’t mess with the lights if corals were happy before.
7. don’t add more snails just yet. The ones you have are not happy. Work out what makes them happy first.
8. change only one thing at a time; always

Thanks for the info.

1 - The Chemipure is long gone, it's been out for 2, or maybe 3 weeks now.
2 - Ordered a microscope, it'll be here tomorrow. So hopefully I can get some good algae samples and finally rule out, or in, dinos.
4 - Some things I have read said carbon can actually make dinos worse. They also say that you need it for when dinos die as they release toxins. This one is kind of confusing to me.
5 - I have adjusted the return nozzles to generate more aeration. I might still add a small air pump. Either way I am not using the pH Balance anymore from everyone's suggestions here.

I also ordered one of those ICP Water Test kits online. Maybe there is something in the water that I am not testing for, though I hit all the big params. Or maybe I suck at testing. My results are usually the same as what the LFS tests are when I have brought them samples though.

I'll update once I have the microscope with what that turns out to be. Honestly I hope it is dinos, just so I have a known thing I can work to resolve. This "water tests are mostly fine" thing leaves me in the dark, and is beyond frustrating.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

This "water tests are mostly fine" thing leaves me in the dark, and is beyond frustrating.

Tests don't show the whole story, your tank is still very new, there are different bacterias fighting for dominance in your tank which you can't test for. Like others have said, the best thing is give the tank time to stabilize on its own and stop dosing things. Hang in there, it generally starts to get easier around the 4-5-6 month mark.

 

[attiland]

Thanks for the info.

1 - The Chemipure is long gone, it's been out for 2, or maybe 3 weeks now.
2 - Ordered a microscope, it'll be here tomorrow. So hopefully I can get some good algae samples and finally rule out, or in, dinos.
4 - Some things I have read said carbon can actually make dinos worse. They also say that you need it for when dinos die as they release toxins. This one is kind of confusing to me.
5 - I have adjusted the return nozzles to generate more aeration. I might still add a small air pump. Either way I am not using the pH Balance anymore from everyone's suggestions here.

I also ordered one of those ICP Water Test kits online. Maybe there is something in the water that I am not testing for, though I hit all the big params. Or maybe I suck at testing. My results are usually the same as what the LFS tests are when I have brought them samples though.

I'll update once I have the microscope with what that turns out to be. Honestly I hope it is dinos, just so I have a known thing I can work to resolve. This "water tests are mostly fine" thing leaves me in the dark, and is beyond frustrating.

1. Glad to hear
2. See attached for help
4. Carbon dosing and activated carbon are not the same. Carbon dosing can fuel Dinos activated carbon removes their poison from the water.
5. that is a good way to start. Just an another idea; AIO often comes with glass top. If yours like that consider changing that to mesh top helps a lot too. Read sea makes one you can cut to size.

 

[CoreyT355]

1. Glad to hear
2. See attached for help
4. Carbon dosing and activated carbon are not the same. Carbon dosing can fuel Dinos activated carbon removes their poison from the water.
5. that is a good way to start. Just an another idea; AIO often comes with glass top. If yours like that consider changing that to mesh top helps a lot too. Read sea makes one you can cut to size.

My Fluval has a lid, which I wanted to keep the evaporation down. I’m wondering if maybe removing the cover over just the filter chambers would be enough to get better gas exchange, and still keep evaporation low.

 

[attiland]

My Fluval has a lid, which I wanted to keep the evaporation down. I’m wondering if maybe removing the cover over just the filter chambers would be enough to get better gas exchange, and still keep evaporation low.

Let evaporate and get an ATO and a can of water in the cupboard. Sorts the issue and your PH will go up, salinity will remain stable...

 

[Trouble1375]

High Magnesium can put snails into a "coma". Lower your magnesium. Someone may have already said it but I know 1st hand because we keep out Mag high because the euphyllia love it and the snails slow down alot.

 

[ZoWhat]

Consistent water changes + 6-9mos to allow all the various forms of GOOD bacteria to build up in LR and sand = success

Yes reefing is that simple.