Tank Flow from Powerheads and Return Nozzles

[BlueWorldJeff]

Looking to possibly upgrade my flow in my BlueWorld 180.

Right now I have a Tunze 6105 on each side of the tank in the back, pointing up
The program for each is complex via Apex. For some time it will do 100% on one, 30%on other, sometimes for 3 seconds, alternating, some times for 10 min as a flush. It is very chaotic and strong at 100%

I have a Waveline DC6000 return pump that is run at about 70%,as much as my drain can handle.
The return is T'd off to two 3/4" returns in the overflow and then again in the water as a Locline "Y" with small return flared nozzles. They are pointed at the water line, with a portion out of the water, as antisiphon.

I've inquired about changing the position of the Tunzes before on here, but have always been told "If its working, no need to change it". I do get good growth (When my params are in line), but I've always had some cyano on the sand bed. I get good growth and movement from my LPS, just wondering if utilizing the returns as water flow additions would help.

I'm trying to thing of an efficient way to plumb an antisiphon in the return lines where I can keep the nozzles under water, but not have a ton of water enter the sump when I cut the return pump. I'd have to put something that pulls air from inside the overflow? Also, would just one return nozzle or eductor work best for each side of the overflow return?

Return Lines

I know this drain setup isnt ideal. I've been looking at ways to use the 1.5" hole and the 2x 3/4" holes all for drains and then run the return up over the back

 

[BlueWorldJeff]

Latest picture of tank. I could have the return nozzles shoot water in between the rock structures while the powerheads move it left and right

 

[dbl]

Well not to repeat your previous response, but if it isn't broken, don't try to fix it...lol. The tank looks great so you're certainly doing something right.

I'll offer my $.02 which is about what it's worth. Don't change things in return lines in an effort to gain internal flow. I think it's best to think of your return line is simply that - get the drained water back to the tank. So if you have a nice balance and it's quiet, I wouldn't change it.

Use internal sources (powerheads, gyres, etc.) for internal flow. If you need to add another one, I would look at going that route. But if you're doing it because of a small spot of Cyano now and again, I personally don't get too worried about that either. Your sand bed looks really clean to me in the pictures.

By tour own admission, you have great flow and all is growing so don't over think it. Maybe not what you wanted to hear...sorry.

 

[BlueWorldJeff]

To be honest, the sandbed on the tank nowadays looks pretty psychedelic with different shades of cyano.

I'm sure it was more of the .22 PO4 that is now .05 or the tunzes needing cleaned, than overall flow patterns

 

[Sierra_Bravo]

Just thinking to myself and doodling here, but if your goal is to create an alternate siphon break so you can keep from having your loc-line return nozzle at or above the waterline, would something like this work? You'd need to drill a hole in your overflow to accept a 1/4" barbed elbow and tap another in the elbow of your return, connecting them with 1/4" flex tubing. Under pressure you'd have a small 1/4" stream of water coming out into your DT from the 1/4 fitting, but upon losing power you'd suck air well above the level of the return nozzle. Just a thought - I've never tried this myself. (pardon the paint drawing)

 

[BlueWorldJeff]

Just thinking to myself and doodling here, but if your goal is to create an alternate siphon break so you can keep from having your loc-line return nozzle at or above the waterline, would something like this work? You'd need to drill a hole in your overflow to accept a 1/4" barbed elbow and tap another in the elbow of your return, connecting them with 1/4" flex tubing. Under pressure you'd have a small 1/4" stream of water coming out into your DT from the 1/4 fitting, but upon losing power you'd suck air well above the level of the return nozzle. Just a thought - I've never tried this myself. (pardon the paint drawing)

I was thinking something along the same lines, but as long as the end of the tubing was pointed down into the water, I could leave it unsubmerged, so it would suck air as soon as the return went off.

I guess I could drill sideways in the overflow 90 elbow right above the water line

 

[BlueWorldJeff]

Since the pictures, I scrapped the barb fittings and went to all hard PVC. So its a more secure setup.

I guess, the new title of this thread could be "Where to drill for anti-siphon".

Unless having the return nozzles right at the water line has some benefit with oxygen exchange, etc.

 

[Sierra_Bravo]

I was thinking something along the same lines, but as long as the end of the tubing was pointed down into the water, I could leave it unsubmerged, so it would suck air as soon as the return went off.

I guess I could drill sideways in the overflow 90 elbow right above the water line

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but if you are planning on drilling the hole on the pipe inside the overflow box below the waterline I don't think it will work. The water level will never be lower than your drain standpipe.

 

[BlueWorldJeff]

Good point, since the return lines are below the water line, wont water always run back thru until the water level reaches the exit point of the return line (the nozzle), even if the siphon is broken ?

How do people do submerged returns?

 

[BlueWorldJeff]

Good point, since the return lines are below the water line, wont water always run back thru until the water level reaches the exit point of the return line (the nozzle), even if the siphon is broken ?

How do people do submerged returns?

Are check valves the only way to keep return nozzles submerged on return pump power off?

 

[dbl]

I personally don't trust siphon holes or check valves. To me anyway, they are just future fail points. If you simply take the output of one of the return nozzles and have it right at the surface, or just barely submerged, it will create a quick siphon break when the pump shuts down. It also serves as a way to break the water surface tension to help with oxygen exchange. Again, just my opinion.

 

[BlueWorldJeff]

I personally don't trust siphon holes or check valves. To me anyway, they are just future fail points. If you simply take the output of one of the return nozzles and have it right at the surface, or just barely submerged, it will create a quick siphon break when the pump shuts down. It also serves as a way to break the water surface tension to help with oxygen exchange. Again, just my opinion.

Would it matter if I had any kind of siphon break at the water line, if there was a nozzle under the water wouldn't gravity still drain water even if no siphon. Seems like I would need the nozzle to be below and the return line to go up to create gravity from draining

 

[dbl]

What is common is people put a hole in the return line just below the water line. So the return nozzle/output is under water. But as soon as the tank starts to siphon and that hole is exposed to air, it breaks the siphon. My concern is if that hole gets clogged over time, the siphon won't break until the nozzle becomes exposed.

I have two return jets. One is just under the water line and the other is an inch plus under water. My siphon breaks as soon as the higher one gets air. To me that is safer than hoping a small hole doesn't become clogged.

 

[BlueWorldJeff]

What is common is people put a hole in the return line just below the water line. So the return nozzle/output is under water. But as soon as the tank starts to siphon and that hole is exposed to air, it breaks the siphon. My concern is If that hole gets clogged over time, the siphon won't break until the nozzle becomes exposed.

I have two return jets. One is just under the water line and the other is an inch plus under water. My siphon breaks as soon as the higher one gets air. To me that is safer than hoping a small hole doesn't become clogged.

But if the nozzle under water has a return line that runs at the same height and all below water line, won't it drain because it's under water?

 

[Dragon52]

Looking to possibly upgrade my flow in my BlueWorld 180.

Right now I have a Tunze 6105 on each side of the tank in the back, pointing up
The program for each is complex via Apex. For some time it will do 100% on one, 30%on other, sometimes for 3 seconds, alternating, some times for 10 min as a flush. It is very chaotic and strong at 100%

I have a Waveline DC6000 return pump that is run at about 70%,as much as my drain can handle.
The return is T'd off to two 3/4" returns in the overflow and then again in the water as a Locline "Y" with small return flared nozzles. They are pointed at the water line, with a portion out of the water, as antisiphon.

I've inquired about changing the position of the Tunzes before on here, but have always been told "If its working, no need to change it". I do get good growth (When my params are in line), but I've always had some cyano on the sand bed. I get good growth and movement from my LPS, just wondering if utilizing the returns as water flow additions would help.

I'm trying to thing of an efficient way to plumb an antisiphon in the return lines where I can keep the nozzles under water, but not have a ton of water enter the sump when I cut the return pump. I'd have to put something that pulls air from inside the overflow? Also, would just one return nozzle or eductor work best for each side of the overflow return?

Return Lines

I know this drain setup isnt ideal. I've been looking at ways to use the 1.5" hole and the 2x 3/4" holes all for drains and then run the return up over the back

I have a 1/8" hole drilled just above the 90* in my return line just under the water level in the display Tank to break the siphon if the power goes off or the return pump stops. Haven't had an issue with clogging or any thing else in just over a yr.

 

[jakeh22]

Get a maxspect gyre you won’t have any problems

 

[BlueWorldJeff]

I'm just going to leave it the way it is and gain flow with powerheads if necessary.

From thinking about the submerged return nozzles, as long as the nozzle is under water and the return line does not go up and out of the water, then even if siphon is broken, then water will drain through return line.

If I eventually bring my return line up and over the back of the tank, then I can drill right below water line and then I wont get a siphon or any draining back since it goes up.

Right now, my return nozzles are at the same height as the highest part of my return line, and that is all below the water line of the display tank, so it will drain to the highest point.

I could run the return line in the overflow above the height of the return nozzles and then do an upside down "U" to get to the bulkhead, but there isnt that much room in the overflow.

Is my thinking right on this?

 

[jakeh22]

I have a 1/8" hole drilled just above the 90* in my return line just under the water level in the display Tank to break the siphon if the power goes off or the return pump stops. Haven't had an issue with clogging or any thing else in just over a yr.

That’s the old school way, A good check valve can stop that. If you have a hole inthe top you make more salt ceeep and also compromise the power of the pump

 

[jakeh22]

I'm just going to leave it the way it is and gain flow with powerheads if necessary.

From thinking about the submerged return nozzles, as long as the nozzle is under water and the return line does not go up and out of the water, then even if siphon is broken, then water will drain through return line.

If I eventually bring my return line up and over the back of the tank, then I can drill right below water line and then I wont get a siphon or any draining back since it goes up.

Right now, my return nozzles are at the same height as the highest part of my return line, and that is all below the water line of the display tank, so it will drain to the highest point.

I could run the return line in the overflow above the height of the return nozzles and then do an upside down "U" to get to the bulkhead, but there isnt that much room in the overflow.

Is my thinking right on this?

I placed my check valve inline at the top so if it backfields it stops in shortest time possible. I just had an outage for 4 hours yesterday no problems...also have a continuous siphon with a toms pump to prime it so I literally don’t have to be around.

 

[Joe Heavy]

Looking to possibly upgrade my flow in my BlueWorld 180.

Right now I have a Tunze 6105 on each side of the tank in the back, pointing up
The program for each is complex via Apex. For some time it will do 100% on one, 30%on other, sometimes for 3 seconds, alternating, some times for 10 min as a flush. It is very chaotic and strong at 100%

I have a Waveline DC6000 return pump that is run at about 70%,as much as my drain can handle.
The return is T'd off to two 3/4" returns in the overflow and then again in the water as a Locline "Y" with small return flared nozzles. They are pointed at the water line, with a portion out of the water, as antisiphon.

I've inquired about changing the position of the Tunzes before on here, but have always been told "If its working, no need to change it". I do get good growth (When my params are in line), but I've always had some cyano on the sand bed. I get good growth and movement from my LPS, just wondering if utilizing the returns as water flow additions would help.

I'm trying to thing of an efficient way to plumb an antisiphon in the return lines where I can keep the nozzles under water, but not have a ton of water enter the sump when I cut the return pump. I'd have to put something that pulls air from inside the overflow? Also, would just one return nozzle or eductor work best for each side of the overflow return?

Return Lines

I know this drain setup isnt ideal. I've been looking at ways to use the 1.5" hole and the 2x 3/4" holes all for drains and then run the return up over the back

Look up siphon stopper might work with a little ingenuity