Tampa Bay Live Rock - How long will it take to seed dry rock

[ReefHunter006]

Hi all,
I received 20ish lbs or rock and sand from TB live rock.

I am not throwing it in any of my tanks until it has been in isolation for 70 days.

I was curious how long do you think it would take to adequately seed dry rock? That way I could turn it from 20lbs to 60ish lbs and really give the tank a reboot in the right direction when I add it.

 

[Saltyreef]

Hi all,
I received 20ish lbs or rock and sand from TB live rock.

I am not throwing it in any of my tanks until it has been in isolation for 70 days.

I was curious how long do you think it would take to adequately seed dry rock? That way I could turn it from 20lbs to 60ish lbs and really give the tank a reboot in the right direction when I add it.

For the dry rock to be fully established by other added liverock, some reefers have gone 2 years until the rock really starts to blend in with teeming life.

This is only on a visual level though.

 

[Fish Styx]

About 8 weeks to be impregnated with sufficient bacteria.

 

[brandon429]

we did a full 200 gallon dry rock dry sand no bottle bac no feed using only reef tank water from a running reef (shatters the claim that reef water does not contain cycling bac, it does) to bring up that tank for full stocking in 20 days, waiting 8 weeks is sure to work. nobody has really bothered to verify such a cross-contamination event to the exact date. 8 weeks is fine

 

[brandon429]

thats just for ammonia control, agreed to transfer some benthic goodies it's months/years contact.

 

[ReefGeezer]

I've given this idea some thought. I've decided that I believe that seeding isn't very efficient. Here's some text from something I'm in the process of writing...

So why can’t we just seed sterile substrates like dry rock with live rock and sand? This is a popular idea that just doesn’t work as well as theorized. The bacteria present in the live rock used for seeding can’t propagate fast enough to outcompete the other bacteria already present. In addition, the surfaces that are not live rock may not provide a suitable habitat for the bacteria. Nature will supply other bacteria that can survive on the bare surfaces long before the more desirable bacteria can get a foothold. That will allow for the ugly stage that we are trying to avoid.

So, while I do believe the diversity gained by adding live rock and live sand is a good thing, I don't think it actually seeds the dry to a point where the ugly phase will be avoided. As always, your mileage may vary.

 

[Fish Styx]

I've given this idea some thought. I've decided that I believe that seeding isn't very efficient. Here's some text from something I'm in the process of writing...

So why can’t we just seed sterile substrates like dry rock with live rock and sand? This is a popular idea that just doesn’t work as well as theorized. The bacteria present in the live rock used for seeding can’t propagate fast enough to outcompete the other bacteria already present. In addition, the surfaces that are not live rock may not provide a suitable habitat for the bacteria. Nature will supply other bacteria that can survive on the bare surfaces long before the more desirable bacteria can get a foothold. That will allow for the ugly stage that we are trying to avoid.

So, while I do believe the diversity gained by adding live rock and live sand is a good thing, I don't think it actually seeds the dry to a point where the ugly phase will be avoided. As always, your mileage may vary.

Agreed. You're still gonna go through the uglies, regardless.

 

[ReefGeezer]

Agreed. You're still gonna go through the uglies, regardless.

I tried this with my 90. I used about 20 lbs. of base live rock from KP aquatics and 70 lbs. of dry rock. I saw no improvement in the ugly phase as compared to my last build that used all dry rock.

 

[ReefHunter006]

I've given this idea some thought. I've decided that I believe that seeding isn't very efficient. Here's some text from something I'm in the process of writing...

So why can’t we just seed sterile substrates like dry rock with live rock and sand? This is a popular idea that just doesn’t work as well as theorized. The bacteria present in the live rock used for seeding can’t propagate fast enough to outcompete the other bacteria already present. In addition, the surfaces that are not live rock may not provide a suitable habitat for the bacteria. Nature will supply other bacteria that can survive on the bare surfaces long before the more desirable bacteria can get a foothold. That will allow for the ugly stage that we are trying to avoid.

So, while I do believe the diversity gained by adding live rock and live sand is a good thing, I don't think it actually seeds the dry to a point where the ugly phase will be avoided. As always, your mileage may vary.

Just to add cause it was missing from the op. I am doing all this as an attempt to improve the biome of the tank below. The tank is 9 months old and kills acros slowly over 1-2 months after introduction. There are past threads about my experience so I don’t want to rewrite it here, but just wanted to provide the context that this isn’t for ammonia or avoiding ugly stages. I’m just trying to get this system to kind of “restart” (using that term very loosely) the establish biome and make it a bit more conducive to acros, so I can shut my frag tank down.

 

[Soren]

I've given this idea some thought. I've decided that I believe that seeding isn't very efficient. Here's some text from something I'm in the process of writing...

So why can’t we just seed sterile substrates like dry rock with live rock and sand? This is a popular idea that just doesn’t work as well as theorized. The bacteria present in the live rock used for seeding can’t propagate fast enough to outcompete the other bacteria already present. In addition, the surfaces that are not live rock may not provide a suitable habitat for the bacteria. Nature will supply other bacteria that can survive on the bare surfaces long before the more desirable bacteria can get a foothold. That will allow for the ugly stage that we are trying to avoid.

So, while I do believe the diversity gained by adding live rock and live sand is a good thing, I don't think it actually seeds the dry to a point where the ugly phase will be avoided. As always, your mileage may vary.

Agreed. You're still gonna go through the uglies, regardless.

About a year ago I ordered 75lbs ocean live rock from Gulf Live Rock and placed it in a 90g tank with 40g Brute can sump that was empty prior. After a few months, I added some dry rock to be "seeded" and have left it be over the last several months. To this date, the dry rock still looks as white as before except for where there is (relatively minimal) discoloration from patches of cyanobacteria and short growths of green hair algae.

My experiences (and based on what length of time Gulf Live Rock and Tampa Bay Saltwater leave the rock in the ocean before selling) seem to agree with the idea that it takes over a year to have much effect and probably 2 years to truly convert dry rock to live rock.

For this reason, I intend to always keep some tanks just to hold dry and live rock to keep seeding more. In addition, I am considering buying more ocean live rock in the near future since I like it so much and think it provides a lot of stability benefits.

 

[Fish Styx]

About a year ago I ordered 75lbs ocean live rock from Gulf Live Rock and placed it in a 90g tank with 40g Brute can sump that was empty prior. After a few months, I added some dry rock to be "seeded" and have left it be over the last several months. To this date, the dry rock still looks as white as before except for where there is (relatively minimal) discoloration from patches of cyanobacteria and short growths of green hair algae.

My experiences (and based on what length of time Gulf Live Rock and Tampa Bay Saltwater leave the rock in the ocean before selling) seem to agree with the idea that it takes over a year to have much effect and probably 2 years to truly convert dry rock to live rock.

For this reason, I intend to always keep some tanks just to hold dry and live rock to keep seeding more. In addition, I am considering buying more ocean live rock in the near future since I like it so much and think it provides a lot of stability benefits.

Agreed, my current build is a 180g DT, 260g TSV. I started with mostly dry rock and "seeded" with live gulf rock and some other pieces of LR from an LFS in VA. I also seeded with grunge from GARF, various pods, etc. At two years in, it is finally getting to where I am happy with it. That being said, areas of the rock that are under others or covered are still rather sterile looking. I also plan on adding some additional LR to increase diversity, with an eye on the Aussie stuff.

 

[Saltyreef]

About a year ago I ordered 75lbs ocean live rock from Gulf Live Rock and placed it in a 90g tank with 40g Brute can sump that was empty prior. After a few months, I added some dry rock to be "seeded" and have left it be over the last several months. To this date, the dry rock still looks as white as before except for where there is (relatively minimal) discoloration from patches of cyanobacteria and short growths of green hair algae.

My experiences (and based on what length of time Gulf Live Rock and Tampa Bay Saltwater leave the rock in the ocean before selling) seem to agree with the idea that it takes over a year to have much effect and probably 2 years to truly convert dry rock to live rock.

For this reason, I intend to always keep some tanks just to hold dry and live rock to keep seeding more. In addition, I am considering buying more ocean live rock in the near future since I like it so much and think it provides a lot of stability benefits.

I have the same experience.
Ive had my rock cure tote running for 3 years now and the dry rock is still all white. Granted there is no light and i run a carbon reactor on the system since its in my garage.

I should have used it on a build years ago but that got put on hold.

 

[ReefHunter006]

So what I think I am interpreting is that this small addition of live rock to the system won’t be as beneficial in getting my tank back on track as I was hoping.

 

[ReefGeezer]

Just to add cause it was missing from the op. I am doing all this as an attempt to improve the biome of the tank below.

I think there will be some benefit. You may not shift the biome though. There will be warfare involved. The existing bacteria have the high ground and outnumber that presckent in the live ro. It will not likely make much difference. The benefit my come from the other organisms present in the live rock i.e. sponges, tube worms, small bivalves, copepods, arthropods, small Brittle Stars, Coralline algae, and etc. You may not see them now, but they are there.

If I understand the biology correctly, SPS corals have their own biome. Something else is likely the issue if you are having trouble keeping them. In a 9 month old tank, there could be many issues that stress them out. Those corals are tough to keep. Sometimes they'll bleach if you look at them wrong.

So what I think I am interpreting is that this small addition of live rock to the system won’t be as beneficial in getting my tank back on track as I was hoping.

It will help a little. The tank looks great. Lots of light and flow, not much algae & such, and plenty of Coralline, In a young tank stability and lack of available organic carbon are usually the issue rather than bacteria populations. Try to make sure everything, measurable or not, is stable and feed those fish.

 

[Fish Styx]

So what I think I am interpreting is that this small addition of live rock to the system won’t be as beneficial in getting my tank back on track as I was hoping.

Adding to the biome will never hurt, but it isn't going to be a miracle pill. At 9 months old, your system is still very young and prone to swings that can affect its stability. While some of the super experts on here can successfully fill a relatively young system with SPS and have success, they are the exception and not the norm. Your tank looks great. Be patient and enjoy the journey. Just my two cents.

 

[90's reefer]

I put dead rock, old live rock is best, in my 45's sump. It takes 6-12 months to have it turn purple.
I just put 4 pieces into the 45 from the sump and they look just like live rock.

 

[Soren]

I have the same experience.
Ive had my rock cure tote running for 3 years now and the dry rock is still all white. Granted there is no light and i run a carbon reactor on the system since its in my garage.

I should have used it on a build years ago but that got put on hold.

Considering that growth has only occurred in my tank where there is access to light, it would seem that light is critical.
I had an initial explosion of coralline algae on the bottom (wherever there was no sand cover) and on the sides of the tank. This has slowed over time, probably due to my lack of supplementing/maintaining calcium and alkalinity (I measure nothing on this tank right now and just do 10-15% water changes every month or so).

The dry rock was placed under the ocean rock, and I consider this a significant part of the reason it is not becoming live (other than probable bacteria populations). I was too concerned to put the dry rock on top, as I feared (and still consider it likely) that it would harm the organisms on the live rock before they could populate the dry.

So what I think I am interpreting is that this small addition of live rock to the system won’t be as beneficial in getting my tank back on track as I was hoping.

Though I am a definite believer in the benefits of ocean live rock, I doubt a small addition will provide the wonderful correction to your existing system. Best case (in my estimation; also the most costly) is to use all ocean live rock, but, even then, it is not an automatic balanced and stable system indefinitely. You still need to track down what is causing the issues in your tank and address the specific issue.

I still think the addition of ocean live rock in your system will do much more good than harm!

 

[doubleshot00]

I added the aquabiomics reef rubble to my tank twice two month between each time. Did it do anything who knows but why not.

Also I think a lot of the live rock you get from the gulf looks so good because it goes through all the uglies already. I'm sure when @LiverockRocks puts the rocks in the ocean it looks white then turns ugly as heck after a few weeks or months. Then over time looks better.

 

[LiverockRocks]

I added the aquabiomics reef rubble to my tank twice two month between each time. Did it do anything who knows but why not.

Also I think a lot of the live rock you get from the gulf looks so good because it goes through all the uglies already. I'm sure when @LiverockRocks puts the rocks in the ocean it looks white then turns ugly as heck after a few weeks or months. Then over time looks better.

Actually, looks like this first. 
Then this.


We do have a pallet of marco rocks to try out, those are super white...not planted yet. Will be interesting to watch those change.

 

[doubleshot00]

Actually, looks like this first. View attachment 3033043
Then this.
View attachment 3033045

We do have a pallet of marco rocks to try out, those are super white...not planted yet. Will be interesting to watch those change.