Sump plumbing question - sump position for drain/return

[mpjbay]

I traded for an older 77 gallon with a really nice custom case. I am putting in a 30" sump in the 72" stand. My question is should I put the sump closer to the side of the drain, closer to the side of the return, or in the middle of the stand.

My thought it to put the sump closer to the side where the return will be plumbed so the return line is shorter than the drain line using gravity to my advantage for the drain and having a shorter distance for the pump to have to work getting the water back in the tank.

What is the best route to go here?

Also, this will be my first drill job, should I put the holes as close to the water live as possible to limit the amount of water drain if there is a power outage?

 

[KStatefan]

Put it to the side that works best for you

Drill the holes so what ever overflow you are using is the correct height

 

[His Coral Highness]

If you use check valves on your return you won’t really have to worry about a power outage draining your tank. For the overflow you can just set that up so that it’s high enough that the water above it will be less than the remaining volume of the sump.

I’d just put the sump where you will have the most elbow room to work on it. Having the overflow/return lines slightly different lengths won’t make an appreciable difference in my opinion, but you will be glad to give yourself some room to work when you will eventually need it.

 

[mpjbay]

If you use check valves on your return you won’t really have to worry about a power outage draining your tank. For the overflow you can just set that up so that it’s high enough that the water above it will be less than the remaining volume of the sump.

I’d just put the sump where you will have the most elbow room to work on it. Having the overflow/return lines slightly different lengths won’t make an appreciable difference in my opinion, but you will be glad to give yourself some room to work when you will eventually need it.

Drain - this was my thought. Drill the hole and keep the water line in the tank so if it completely drains to the drain pipe level and fills the sump the sump will not overflow.

Noted on having room to work!

What check vales are currently recommended for sumps? Is only one valve used and only on the return plumbing?

What size holes/plumbing is needed for the drain and return?

I read it is best to test the setup, is this commonly recommend?

 

[sunken3]

I have setup many tanks / sumps over the years. I am not sure it makes a huge difference. I tend to like my sumps to the far left of my stand - really it's so I have room for other stuff under the tank. In my mind water runs left to right, just like I read .

as far as drilling. the overflow (I assume you're buying one)... should have a template and instructions where to drill.

good luck.

 

[mpjbay]

I have setup many tanks / sumps over the years. I am not sure it makes a huge difference. I tend to like my sumps to the far left of my stand - really it's so I have room for other stuff under the tank. In my mind water runs left to right, just like I read .

as far as drilling. the overflow (I assume you're buying one)... should have a template and instructions where to drill.

good luck.

Having the sump on the left was my original thought, then leave right side for gear. Then I thought it may be better to have the sump on the far right closer to the return so the pump has less distance to travel in the plumbing.

I bought a sump I am waiting for it to be delivered. Is this the same as "the overflow"?

Drilling - I bought a guide from BRS.

 

[sunken3]

Having the sump on the left was my original thought, then leave right side for gear. Then I thought it may be better to have the sump on the far right closer to the return so the pump has less distance to travel in the plumbing.

I bought a sump I am waiting for it to be delivered. Is this the same as "the overflow"?

Drilling - I bought a guide from BRS.

an overflow is what you are drilling your tank for. - eg.

LoPro External Overflow Box (400 GPH) - Fiji Cube

Fiji Cube's unique design takes low-profile overflows to the next level! We were immediately impressed by the thoughtful design and unique features of Fiji Cube's overflow boxes. The wet side overflow box is among the slimmest on the market, but what really sets it apart is the ease of...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

 

[mpjbay]

an overflow is what you are drilling your tank for. - eg.

LoPro External Overflow Box (400 GPH) - Fiji Cube

Fiji Cube's unique design takes low-profile overflows to the next level! We were immediately impressed by the thoughtful design and unique features of Fiji Cube's overflow boxes. The wet side overflow box is among the slimmest on the market, but what really sets it apart is the ease of...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

I am glad I posted this thread.

I thought the drain hole drained directly into the sump. I didn't realize an overflow was needed.

 

[sunken3]

there are other ways to drill and plumb a tank, but I think you'll be happiest using an overflow similar to the one I sent. you could just drill and plumb to the tank directly, or use a siphon overflow (no drilling). Neither of those ways (imo) are as reliable.

 

[mpjbay]

there are other ways to drill and plumb a tank, but I think you'll be happiest using an overflow similar to the one I sent. you could just drill and plumb to the tank directly, or use a siphon overflow (no drilling). Neither of those ways (imo) are as reliable.

Thank you.

Why is an overflow the best solution, or at least the one you prefer?

I am new to reef-ing. I currently have a 40 gallon with HOB everything. I am upgrading to a 77 gallon which fits perfectly in the space we want to add the tank. Moving to a sump system seems like the best option but there is a bit more I need to learn prior to implementation.

In this scenario, I'd drill a hole, add the overflow, have the overflow flow into the sump, then sump does its thing, on the return I have a pump that pushes water through a check valve/plumbing into a new hole I drill on the other side of the tank than the drain, returning to the tank. At my local shop I notice he has on his return a pinched piece of plumbing on the return I assume to add pressure and therefore flow when returning water to the tank.

 

[sunken3]

Personally most of my non-AIO tanks have had internal overflows. These are probably the safest unless you somehow crack or cause the overflow housing to leak, then you could be screwed in a power outage as the entire tank could drain out. Just plumbing a hole directly to plumbing can work, but you're more likely to get gurgling noise, higher water levels and less surface skimming when compare to an external overflow. The siphon overflows in the past have had issues of losing siphon and flooding the display tank, maybe they've figured that out, but I am leery of them. I like the overflows as well, because you can drill your tank once, but have multiple drain lines (depending on the overflow. I like at least 2 so you can have an emergency drain.

Not sure what the pinched piece of plumbing does other than what you said, increases pressure. Take a look at various return setups... some are pretty cool. I like the loc-line with a VCA nozzle for variable flow.

 

[mpjbay]

Personally most of my non-AIO tanks have had internal overflows. These are probably the safest unless you somehow crack or cause the overflow housing to leak, then you could be screwed in a power outage as the entire tank could drain out. Just plumbing a hole directly to plumbing can work, but you're more likely to get gurgling noise, higher water levels and less surface skimming when compare to an external overflow. The siphon overflows in the past have had issues of losing siphon and flooding the display tank, maybe they've figured that out, but I am leery of them. I like the overflows as well, because you can drill your tank once, but have multiple drain lines (depending on the overflow. I like at least 2 so you can have an emergency drain.

Not sure what the pinched piece of plumbing does other than what you said, increases pressure. Take a look at various return setups... some are pretty cool. I like the loc-line with a VCA nozzle for variable flow.

Thank you for the explanation. Makes a lot of sense. So would it better then to make an internal overflow? I am pretty open, I just want to do this right.

I will find a photo of the pinched piece, I am sure there is a name for it, I just have not yet learned it,

 

[sunken3]

making your own internal overflow would be quite a task I think if you didn't have the tools and skill to professionally cut acrylic. you're better off buying an external overflow from a reputable company.

 

[sunken3]

my latest tank

 

[mpjbay]

my latest tank

On the external overflow, the water fills the box then over flows into the pipe in the box correct? If this is the case, why have a second pipe on the bottom on the box? UPDATE: I just RTFI on the website, The pipe in the box is the emergency overflow correct? The normal flow drains out of the bottom hole?

I do like that is surface skims. That alone is reason for me to go this route.


flare nozzle/return jet is the pinched piece I was earlier referring to.

Loc-Line

Bulk Reef Supply - Saltwater Aquarium Supplies for Reef Tanks

www.bulkreefsupply.com

BTW thank you for your help.

I remember when Orange Country was Orange fields.

 

[sunken3]

yes.. you plumb the regular ("unpiped") drain with a gate valve and the emergency (piped) regular. then you turn on your pump.. either adjust your pump flow or your gate valve (or a little of each).. to get the desired drain flow (keeping the flow below your emergency pipe). you adjust the flow as it controls water noise. then... if ever your regular flow gets clogged (who knows, fish, snail, food, whatever), the water will rise in the overflow to the emergency drain... in the sump, you plumb a piece of pipe into the water (for your regular drain - again to keep the noise down, and have your emergency drain above the sump water line. This way you will hear your water if the emergency drain is ever in use and know you need to check on the regular line plumbing. hope that helps.

yes that is the loc-line I was referring too... however I usually pull that last pinch piece off and replace it with a VCA tip.

Flex Series 3/4" Random Flow Generator - Vivid Creative Aquatics

Increased durability. Exceptional Flexibility. Time-Trusted Design. Manufactured from Reef-Safe TPU, a rubber-like material Extremely durable and flexible Resistant to cracking or breaking Easy to clean Broader range of direct compatibility Enhanced Randomized Flow Higher throughput (5% - 10%...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

 

[mpjbay]

yes.. you plumb the regular ("unpiped") drain with a gate valve and the emergency (piped) regular. then you turn on your pump.. either adjust your pump flow or your gate valve (or a little of each).. to get the desired drain flow (keeping the flow below your emergency pipe). you adjust the flow as it controls water noise. then... if ever your regular flow gets clogged (who knows, fish, snail, food, whatever), the water will rise in the overflow to the emergency drain... in the sump, you plumb a piece of pipe into the water (for your regular drain - again to keep the noise down, and have your emergency drain above the sump water line. This way you will hear your water if the emergency drain is ever in use and know you need to check on the regular line plumbing. hope that helps.

yes that is the loc-line I was referring too... however I usually pull that last pinch piece off and replace it with a VCA tip.

Flex Series 3/4" Random Flow Generator - Vivid Creative Aquatics

Increased durability. Exceptional Flexibility. Time-Trusted Design. Manufactured from Reef-Safe TPU, a rubber-like material Extremely durable and flexible Resistant to cracking or breaking Easy to clean Broader range of direct compatibility Enhanced Randomized Flow Higher throughput (5% - 10%...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

I am going to draw up a schematic. Would you mind having a look at it?

 

[mpjbay]

yes.. you plumb the regular ("unpiped") drain with a gate valve and the emergency (piped) regular. then you turn on your pump.. either adjust your pump flow or your gate valve (or a little of each).. to get the desired drain flow (keeping the flow below your emergency pipe). you adjust the flow as it controls water noise. then... if ever your regular flow gets clogged (who knows, fish, snail, food, whatever), the water will rise in the overflow to the emergency drain... in the sump, you plumb a piece of pipe into the water (for your regular drain - again to keep the noise down, and have your emergency drain above the sump water line. This way you will hear your water if the emergency drain is ever in use and know you need to check on the regular line plumbing. hope that helps.

yes that is the loc-line I was referring too... however I usually pull that last pinch piece off and replace it with a VCA tip.

Flex Series 3/4" Random Flow Generator - Vivid Creative Aquatics

Increased durability. Exceptional Flexibility. Time-Trusted Design. Manufactured from Reef-Safe TPU, a rubber-like material Extremely durable and flexible Resistant to cracking or breaking Easy to clean Broader range of direct compatibility Enhanced Randomized Flow Higher throughput (5% - 10%...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

The VCA is pretty cool. Looks lie that will have to go on the return.

 

[mpjbay]

yes.. you plumb the regular ("unpiped") drain with a gate valve and the emergency (piped) regular. then you turn on your pump.. either adjust your pump flow or your gate valve (or a little of each).. to get the desired drain flow (keeping the flow below your emergency pipe). you adjust the flow as it controls water noise. then... if ever your regular flow gets clogged (who knows, fish, snail, food, whatever), the water will rise in the overflow to the emergency drain... in the sump, you plumb a piece of pipe into the water (for your regular drain - again to keep the noise down, and have your emergency drain above the sump water line. This way you will hear your water if the emergency drain is ever in use and know you need to check on the regular line plumbing. hope that helps.

yes that is the loc-line I was referring too... however I usually pull that last pinch piece off and replace it with a VCA tip.

Flex Series 3/4" Random Flow Generator - Vivid Creative Aquatics

Increased durability. Exceptional Flexibility. Time-Trusted Design. Manufactured from Reef-Safe TPU, a rubber-like material Extremely durable and flexible Resistant to cracking or breaking Easy to clean Broader range of direct compatibility Enhanced Randomized Flow Higher throughput (5% - 10%...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

Regarding the external overflow is this basically what we are looking at?

 

[Cichlid Dad]

Hello, If I could offer a suggestion to the OP. I knew nothing about any of this when I first started. There are so many things that you need to have a full understanding of before you set one up from scratch. Check valves are not a failsafe. In most cases, over time they may not work as intended. Most of the cheap ones won't work at all. I would study, watch lots of video, see many setups and ask lots of questions. Plumbing alone is a nightmare until you have a grasp on what you need to know. Knowing when the outside diameter or the inside diameter makes a difference. That is just for being able to purchase the supplies and get them working together. What size return you will need. What drain diameter will be needed for that return size. I'm just scratching the surface.