Starfish questions-advice!!

[Cyanohater]

I want to add a starfish to my reef aquarium. It has been up for about a year and a half. I have a Clownfish pair, sixline qrassr, goby/pistol shrimp. I am adding a valentini Puffer on the hopes that he is a nice friend to my inverts. I will also want to add a starfish. Will these two be compatible? I have plenty of algae film on the glass for the star to eat. And will be supplemental feeding. So is there anything I should do? Should ai not add a valentini? Any other advice?

 

[squarereefer]

Sorry to bring bad news but the puffer is a bad idea if you want inverts. The natural diet of a puffer consists of inverts and it will likely wipe out any that you have in your tank. Starfish often do not fare well in our home aquariums, especially if you might be looking at a sandsifting star. It's easy to underestimate how much a single star can eat, and unless you have a very large tank that has years of build up, the starfish will likley starve to death once it quickly cleans up your tank. Do a couple of google searches against this site and other reef forums and sadly, the discussions rarely end well for the starfish.

Best of luck with your tank!

 

[vtecintegra]

My advice, don't buy a starfish. They don't eat algae. It will probably end up dying a slow death.

 

[ManWithAClam]

what type of starfish is it? also, the puffer will most likely eat it.

 

[Cyanohater]

Sorry to bring bad news but the puffer is a bad idea if you want inverts. The natural diet of a puffer consists of inverts and it will likely wipe out any that you have in your tank. Starfish often do not fare well in our home aquariums, especially if you might be looking at a sandsifting star. It's easy to underestimate how much a single star can eat, and unless you have a very large tank that has years of build up, the starfish will likley starve to death once it quickly cleans up your tank. Do a couple of google searches against this site and other reef forums and sadly, the discussions rarely end well for the starfish.

Best of luck with your tank!

I do have a larger tank. But maybe I'll just do an urchin. I also have heard that it is possible to keep valentini with inverts. I just wanted to give it a try and if starts devastating my tank I can easily move him out. Ibdont mind him eating a few snails or hermits.

 

[Cyanohater]

what type of starfish is it? also, the puffer will most likely eat it.

Orange Linckia

 

[Cyanohater]

My advice, don't buy a starfish. They don't eat algae. It will probably end up dying a slow death.

alright

 

[Cyanohater]

Sorry to bring bad news but the puffer is a bad idea if you want inverts. The natural diet of a puffer consists of inverts and it will likely wipe out any that you have in your tank. Starfish often do not fare well in our home aquariums, especially if you might be looking at a sandsifting star. It's easy to underestimate how much a single star can eat, and unless you have a very large tank that has years of build up, the starfish will likley starve to death once it quickly cleans up your tank. Do a couple of google searches against this site and other reef forums and sadly, the discussions rarely end well for the starfish.

Best of luck with your tank!

is it not possible to supplemental feed pieces of shrimp? and other foods clams etc

 

[Rick's Reviews]

An aquarium that is 1 and half years old, it's a tough choice to decide on future of your aquarium, sand sifting star fish like dirty ****** sand , same again with urchin's, they eat hair algae but only before a certain length.

It's a tough choice to decide but I think both will starve to death in your aquarium

 

[Cyanohater]

An aquarium that is 1 and half years old, it's a tough choice to decide on future of your aquarium, sand sifting star fish like dirty ****** sand , same again with urchin's, they eat hair algae but only before a certain length.

It's a tough choice to decide but I think both will starve to death in your aquarium

I doubt an urchin will starve (not trying to be aggressive) It is a larger tank and I have hardly any clean up crew
The tank he is going in is a 40 gallon. I think it's sadly decided no starfish. However the Urchin will be fed nori and other supplements. Cleanup crew now is 3 hermits 1 tiger conch. That's it

 

[Rick's Reviews]

Yes unfortunately from my experience, you can not hand feed a urchin, I wish you best of luck and please provide videos.... Thanks

 

[Cyanohater]

An aquarium that is 1 and half years old, it's a tough choice to decide on future of your aquarium, sand sifting star fish like dirty ****** sand , same again with urchin's, they eat hair algae but only before a certain length.

It's a tough choice to decide but I think both will starve to death in your aquarium

I have shorter hair algae in places. Good algae on film if I don't scrape. I don't know I will look into this more. I've just heard of people being able to supplement feed and it being okay. I had a bud a few years back that kept reefs (before I got into the hobby about 5 years ago) he had a orange linckia in a 50 gallon, and an urchin in a 32 gallon. His tank was almost spotless but he supplemental fed both and they lived for years. Again I don't know everything that's why I made this thread I just want to consider all of my options and present what I've though based on what I know

 

[Cyanohater]

Yes unfortunately from my experience, you can not hand feed a urchin, I wish you best of luck and please provide videos.... Thanks

Will do!

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

is it not possible to supplemental feed pieces of shrimp? and other foods clams etc

People have tried supplemental feedings for starfish before, typically unsuccessfully. Linckias, Fromias, etc. are biofilm eating starfish, so we can't replicate their feed/meet their nutritional requirements at this point.

Long story short, I would recommend against just about anyone getting a starfish at this point, as we just can't feed them like they need yet (there are people working on it and more hoping to work on it soon, but we've got a long ways to go at this point).

These stars wouldn't hurt your fish, but with starfish (specifically biofilm eating starfish), a year plus is basically a few months of them eating everything available for them in the tank followed by several months of them slowly starving to death (and they usually only last that long in large, mature tanks).

Unfortunately, these guys are still thought to be biofilm eaters, so while they will likely scavenge around your tank, it'll probably die within 6-13 months. You can try supplementing it with things like clams and algae pellets (which supposedly N. cumingi will take on occasion), but it likely won't meet their nutritional needs.

Biofilms are typically a mix of bacteria, cyanobacteria, diatoms, microalgae, fungi, etc.; they can vary drastically in makeup dependent on a number of different factors (and figuring out what is in them requires lab-grade equipment). As mentioned, we're not sure what in the biofilm is important for starfish health. Also, we're not sure what biofilm composition is preferred by the stars (and it almost certainly will vary from species to species).

 

[Cyanohater]

People have tried supplemental feedings for starfish before, typically unsuccessfully. Linckias, Fromias, etc. are biofilm eating starfish, so we can't replicate their feed/meet their nutritional requirements at this point.

Okay thank you!! Now I have to ask is there any type of sea star that would be possible to feed?? I'm probably not gonna get one I'm just curious.

 

[ManWithAClam]

Okay thank you!! Now I have to ask is there any type of sea star that would be possible to feed?? I'm probably not gonna get one I'm just curious.

chocolate chip stars, pillow stars, and a few others that aren't really common in the hobby.

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

Okay thank you!! Now I have to ask is there any type of sea star that would be possible to feed?? I'm probably not gonna get one I'm just curious.

For tropical tanks, the only one available occasionally in the hobby that I've heard of people having decent success with is Goniaster tesselatus (AydenLincoln here on R2R currently keeps one, but I know at least one person previously kept one for a few years - 5 years, IIRC - they do eat unhealthy corals on occasion though, and I believe that was why the person gave their star away).

I know some people have kept Goniaster tessellatus with long term success by feeding them algae and algae pellets (this starfish has about a thousand common names, but the one person I know currently keeping one refers to it as the West African Biscuit Starfish - this common name may also refer to a different species).

Other than that, there are a few coldwater, predatory species that we can not only feed but aquaculture - for obvious reasons, though, I wouldn't recommend them for a tropical tank.

chocolate chip stars, pillow stars, and a few others that aren't really common in the hobby.

I'm not sure about the long term success with these, but we can't usually feed these well either (and they both eat corals in our aquaria).

Chocolate chip stars:

Chocolate Chip Stars (Protoreaster nodosus) eat algal films, biofilms (a rather specific mix of bacteria, cyanobacteria, diatoms, microalgae, fungi, etc. - this is something we can't really replicate in our aquariums for them, so most biofilm eating stars are thought to starve in our systems), and meiobenthos (benthic organisms like worms and pods and such that are small enough not to be considered macrofauna, but not small enough to be considered microfauna).

As I mention below, the biofilms - specifically those found on seagrasses and sediments in this case - are thought to be the main component of their diet though (and many sponges are quite rich in biofilm forming microbes, so it's not really a surprise that many biofilm eating starfish are known to eat sponges).

ISpeakForTheSeas said:
If it is Protoreaster nodosus or a Pentaceraster sp., than it's a biofilm eater and will be difficult to feed long term - though biofilm eating starfish can usually survive a decent length of time in large enough aquariums (the smallest recommended tank size I've seen to accommodate this is 75 gallons, but bigger is substantially more likely to be successful as I understand it). Additionally, these species are known to eat corals in aquaria, so that would be something to keep in mind (this is largely thought to be a result of limited preferred food sources - i.e. it's thought that they eat corals when they run out of biofilm). Protoreaster nodosus seems to prefer biofilms that form on sediments and seagrasses, and Pentaceraster spp. seem to prefer biofilms that form on macroalgae (and possibly seagrasses too). So, having some seagrass and macroalgae in the aquarium could potentially help feed these guys, but there's no guarantee.

ISpeakForTheSeas said:
I’ve never heard of these guys preying on other stars, but I wouldn’t put it past them if the other star was small enough (even Linckia stars will eat Aquilonastra stars, for example).

If you can keep them properly fed, then any instances of predation should (theoretically) be rare. However, they may still happen occasionally, and keeping these stars properly fed is substantially easier said than done, as they (to my understanding) primarily consume biofilms founds on sediment and seagrasses.

Pillow stars:

I think you're right - I think that's a Culcita sp. cushion star, most likely C. novaeguineae. If I'm correct with the ID, there's some good news and some bad news.

The good news is, they are super cool stars: they are surprisingly flexible despite their cushion shape, and harlequin shrimp don't seem to be interested in eating these guys at all.*

The bad news is that they are confirmed corallivores, eating corals like Acropora, Pocillopora, Monopora, and Pavona for certain (it confirmedly doesn't like Porites). C. schmideliana is also known to eat Galaxea, Goniopora, and Xenia, so I wouldn't be surprised to find if the star eats most corals. They also are known to eat some small inverts, such as urchins...

I haven't heard any complaints about them with snails or shrimp yet, but that doesn't mean they're entirely safe (though these guys are known to have symbiotic relationships with a shrimp species - Zenopontonia soror - a fish - Carapus mourlani - and a polychaete worm - Gastrolepidia clavigera - so they might not be too hard on inverts).

*The study that offered these guys to harlequin shrimp:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/318718169_Sand_star_Astropecten_indicus_Doderlein_1888_as_an_alternative_live_diet_for_captive_harlequin_shrimp_Hymenocera_picta_Dana_1852

Sorry, I've been bouncing on and off a lot today and somehow missed this part earlier - how long have you had this star for?

I know they're said to eat biofilms (particularly those found on algae and sea grass, similar to the Chocolate Chip Starfish), but I haven't looked into that aspect much (most scientific reports like to focus on the coral eating). So, I'm hoping to hear you've been having long term success with it.

You can always try offering things like clams, and the star may or may not take them. The issue with sea stars is that it's hard to tell what they actually get nutrition from. So, for example, even if the star eats the offering of clams, that doesn't mean it's actually benefitting from eating those clams - it could starve to death from improper nutrition while having a stomach full of clams. Same with any snails, urchins, etc. that it may eat.

So, with that in mind, I'd personally pick up some really "invasive/weedy" Pocillopora (some people compare it to Xenia and Green Star Polyps) and offer it to the star - if it is C. novaeguineae, it should take it pretty readily (though they are known to primarily hunt at night). If it does take it, I would grow out a bunch of the stuff to feed the star.

How to feed your corallivore

So, I recently asked on here if some kind sea star experts could ID my sea star that I’ve had in captivity for 6 months. I found out, with the help of @ISpeakForTheSeas and @AydenLincoln that this star most closely resembles Culcita sp. or Culcita Novaguineae, which is actually a corallivore...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

Just to add, "Asterina" starfish (technically Aquilonastra, but known in the hobby as Asterina, though Asterina is a different genus in the same taxonomic family as Aquilonastra) do well enough in our tanks to be considered pests by many people (they reproduce extremely fast), and they may or may not eat zoanthid corals; but they're just about the only true starfish I can really recommend at this point.

Other than those, brittle starfish and serpent starfish (which are Ophiuroids rather than Asteroids like true starfish) do well in our tanks, and the only one of these I wouldn't recommend that is commonly found in the hobby is Ophiarachna incrassata - the green serpent star - as it is predatory and known to eat fish in our tanks.

 

[ManWithAClam]

For tropical tanks, the only one available occasionally in the hobby that I've heard of people having decent success with is Goniaster tesselatus (AydenLincoln here on R2R currently keeps one, but I know at least one person previously kept one for a few years - 5 years, IIRC - they do eat unhealthy corals on occasion though, and I believe that was why the person gave their star away).

Other than that, there are a few coldwater, predatory species that we can not only feed but aquaculture - for obvious reasons, though, I wouldn't recommend them for a tropical tank.

I'm not sure about the long term success with these, but we can't usually feed these well either (and they both eat corals in our aquaria).

Chocolate chip stars:




Pillow stars:

How to feed your corallivore

So, I recently asked on here if some kind sea star experts could ID my sea star that I’ve had in captivity for 6 months. I found out, with the help of @ISpeakForTheSeas and @AydenLincoln that this star most closely resembles Culcita sp. or Culcita Novaguineae, which is actually a corallivore...

www.reef2reef.com

i know it's not their natural diet but i know people who have owned chocolate chip stars for 5+ years on only prepared foods like krill and clam. and the pillow star is in theory a very easy sea star to own if you have enough coral for it to feed on.

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

i know it's not their natural diet but i know people who have owned chocolate chip stars for 5+ years on only prepared foods like krill and clam.

Interesting - most people I've seen only keep them to feed their harlequin shrimp or only keep them until they realize they eat corals, so I've only seen people keep them for a few months. Good to know they can handle more traditional feeds.