SPS Dying Off - Please help me solve this mystery

[liudachris]

Hoping to get people's help in figuring out what is going on with my coral. 2 weeks ago, I noticed 2 of my SPS frags lose PE, and then they began to slowly fade at the base and then ultimately necroses over the course of a few days. Since then, this has spread to other coral that were previously growing and encrusting very well. I have noticed loss of PE on multiple frags (primarily tennis but even my BC sniper is being affected) and then the base looks like its fading away. A few look like they are expelling their zooanflagella from the tip. The issue seems to accelerating and affecting frags that have been in my tank for >3 months. Also the exposed skeleton at the base looks brittle.

Tank: Cade 1200S2, stocked with 2 clowns, small biota yellow tang, and a flasher wrasse. I try to feed heavy but this is relative I guess. Export: no skimmer, just a filter roller.

Tank Chemistry
pH 8.1
Ca 430s
Alk 8.0
Nitrate 5
Phosphate 0.05-0.10
Temp fluxes 78-80 (live in Dallas, its hot AF here)

Lighting: 2 AP9x set to 95% + 4 T5

Things I have done:
1. started dosing Neonitro. I know my tank is ULNS and most of my SPS are pale because of it. My Nitrates about 2 weeks ago were 0 and phosphate was 0.02. Prior to this frags were growing very well. I have since dosed the nitrates up to 5.0ish but the decline in my SPS seems to be accelerating.
2. checked for pests, I have dipped several frags that appeared to be affected. The only thing I got were what looked like copepods that I have seen crawling on the frag plugs. I have not seen any bugs per se actually on live coral tissue.
3. inspected all the magnets in the tank - all intact.
4. reduced lighting to 75%

Things I am thinking of doing:
1. Send for ICP testing.
2. I initially thought this may be a pest issue but I just haven't seen anything on the coral at all (previous post looking for incereptor). I have thought about treating with interceptor if I can get my hands on it. I don't have any inverts of value except for clams in the tank at the moment.

***Could this be a delayed response to my nutrients bottoming out 2-3 weeks ago? Should I be looking harder for pests? Any ideas suggestions thoughts on what could be going on would be much appreciated?

 

[ryanjohn1]

Have you checked what your par is?
What salt %@
Rodi? For top off

 

[mangolove]

Sounds like your making changes to your tank like the lighting and nitrates.

I also read that you dont have a skimmer.

When you change things, things get out of balance.

Did you have a bacterial bloom when bottoming out? Also nitrates probably where not 0 but instead not readable by a test. phosfates of 0.05 - 0.1 seem a little on the high side especially in comparison to the low nitrate.

Why not just do some water changes? And why did you change the lights?

 

[liudachris]

Have you checked what your par is?
What salt %@
Rodi? For top off

My PAR varies depending on the location in the tank. PAR is >300 but can be as high as 500 in the middle of the tank. The frags dying were at PAR around 400. I thought that the expelling of pigment at the tips was due to too much light in a low nutrient environment.

Salt - 1.026, TMP
RODI for top off yes.

 

[liudachris]

Sounds like your making changes to your tank like the lighting and nitrates.

I also read that you dont have a skimmer.

When you change things, things get out of balance.

Did you have a bacterial bloom when bottoming out? Also nitrates probably where not 0 but instead not readable by a test. phosfates of 0.05 - 0.1 seem a little on the high side especially in comparison to the low nitrate.

Why not just do some water changes? And why did you change the lights?

I purposely have not installed a skimmer, bio load is relatively low and the roller exports to efficiency.
Not sure how to see a bacterial bloom but there was no algae bloom.
I have started water changes as well, time is limiting how much I can change right now, also about to leave for a work trip tomorrow so of course this is happening now...
Reduced lighting because I thought I was bleaching things out.

 

[ryanjohn1]

500 in middle of tank seems high

 

[ryanjohn1]

Could be a mixture of temp swings, water chemistry swings and high lighting an that was all she wrote

 

[KrisReef]

I purposely have not installed a skimmer, bio load is relatively low and the roller exports to efficiency.
Not sure how to see a bacterial bloom but there was no algae bloom.
I have started water changes as well, time is limiting how much I can change right now, also about to leave for a work trip tomorrow so of course this is happening now...
Reduced lighting because I thought I was bleaching things out.

That week is going to tell you if you’ve been manipulating the system too much or too little. Sorry you have to work and travel.

 

[mangolove]

My PAR varies depending on the location in the tank. PAR is >300 but can be as high as 500 in the middle of the tank. The frags dying were at PAR around 400. I thought that the expelling of pigment at the tips was due to too much light in a low nutrient environment.

Salt - 1.026, TMP
RODI for top off yes.

I would lower salt to 1.025 because when higher salt and highter temp and high flow the coral tissue just blows off plus 500 par also seems really high to me except when you would want to light a clam. Most corals thrive from 50 to 150 in my experience. Sps corals need a little bit more. Blue spectrum would seem most safe to me.

What I would do? Lower salinity, allot les par output would say 300 par max at the top. Do u dose any macro, trace, micro elements? If not its time to. Is your tank still consuming kh ca etc? or has it stalled?

 

[mangolove]

Also... would recommend to add some amino's

 

[Dburr1014]

Hoping to get people's help in figuring out what is going on with my coral. 2 weeks ago, I noticed 2 of my SPS frags lose PE, and then they began to slowly fade at the base and then ultimately necroses over the course of a few days. Since then, this has spread to other coral that were previously growing and encrusting very well. I have noticed loss of PE on multiple frags (primarily tennis but even my BC sniper is being affected) and then the base looks like its fading away. A few look like they are expelling their zooanflagella from the tip. The issue seems to accelerating and affecting frags that have been in my tank for >3 months. Also the exposed skeleton at the base looks brittle.

Tank: Cade 1200S2, stocked with 2 clowns, small biota yellow tang, and a flasher wrasse. I try to feed heavy but this is relative I guess. Export: no skimmer, just a filter roller.

Tank Chemistry
pH 8.1
Ca 430s
Alk 8.0
Nitrate 5
Phosphate 0.05-0.10
Temp fluxes 78-80 (live in Dallas, its hot AF here)

Lighting: 2 AP9x set to 95% + 4 T5

Things I have done:
1. started dosing Neonitro. I know my tank is ULNS and most of my SPS are pale because of it. My Nitrates about 2 weeks ago were 0 and phosphate was 0.02. Prior to this frags were growing very well. I have since dosed the nitrates up to 5.0ish but the decline in my SPS seems to be accelerating.
2. checked for pests, I have dipped several frags that appeared to be affected. The only thing I got were what looked like copepods that I have seen crawling on the frag plugs. I have not seen any bugs per se actually on live coral tissue.
3. inspected all the magnets in the tank - all intact.
4. reduced lighting to 75%

Things I am thinking of doing:
1. Send for ICP testing.
2. I initially thought this may be a pest issue but I just haven't seen anything on the coral at all (previous post looking for incereptor). I have thought about treating with interceptor if I can get my hands on it. I don't have any inverts of value except for clams in the tank at the moment.

***Could this be a delayed response to my nutrients bottoming out 2-3 weeks ago? Should I be looking harder for pests? Any ideas suggestions thoughts on what could be going on would be much appreciated?

I assume you have left for your work trip.
Do you have a full tank shot?
Can you list the types of coral in your collection? (That is in the whole tank.)

You do have a light load. I can see why things bottomed out.
Have you thought about dosing ammonia?

Water changes is all you need to keep up with elements.
I feel your primary problem might be nutrients but it also could be water quality.
Your list of coral might be a clue.
Do you run GAC?

 

[Spare time]

Also... would recommend to add some amino's

+1 on aminos rather than nitrate dosing

 

[Tonycass12]

I dont think your lighting is too high. I had something very similar happen in my old system and I lost a lot of corals to it. My system was going fishless while I treated fish in quarantine for ich. Stopped monitoring my nitrates and phosphates for 2 months and they completly bottomed out. I should have known better, by the time I started testing frequently again and trying to get N0³ and P0⁴ back up it was too late. Lost all my mariculture colonies to stn and rtn. This very well could be due to things bottoming out. Don't react and change things too quickly. Sending off and icp test is a really good idea just to discount any other possibilities.

 

[Troylee]

It’s not gonna be light! Sps love light and my tank runs anywhere from 1000 just below the water line and 600 on my rocks to 175 on the sand bed “halide lit” I’d say if you truly bottomed out nutrients which you prolly did with that small load that’s your problem.

 

[MnFish1]

It seems like you've changed quite a few things, and it's difficult to figure out what's 'going on'. Your coral could have a bacterial infection (no way really to prove or disprove), Especially if you recently added something new - without QT. Your coral could be releasing chemicals as they die, which further affects the neighbors, causing kind of a cascade effect (Which can be why a skimmer/activated carbon can be helpful).

As long as your light didn't suddenly go up to 500 PAR, I can't see how thats having an effect, but lowering to 75% isn't going to hurt.

As to nutrients, before they were '0', what were they before, and how long were they 0. Nitrate and PO4 help coral color and grow - but a temporary drop should not cause what you're seeing. Having said that, perhaps the light in addition to the decrease may have been playing a role. Currently, I would not be concerned with the numbers you have shown now. Both nitrate and PO4 are in 'excess'.

Would you be able to post a picture of your whole tank, and some of the individual corals that are having problems. Additionally, are there any corals not having problems?

 

[Macdaddynick1]

Hoping to get people's help in figuring out what is going on with my coral. 2 weeks ago, I noticed 2 of my SPS frags lose PE, and then they began to slowly fade at the base and then ultimately necroses over the course of a few days. Since then, this has spread to other coral that were previously growing and encrusting very well. I have noticed loss of PE on multiple frags (primarily tennis but even my BC sniper is being affected) and then the base looks like its fading away. A few look like they are expelling their zooanflagella from the tip. The issue seems to accelerating and affecting frags that have been in my tank for >3 months. Also the exposed skeleton at the base looks brittle.

Tank: Cade 1200S2, stocked with 2 clowns, small biota yellow tang, and a flasher wrasse. I try to feed heavy but this is relative I guess. Export: no skimmer, just a filter roller.

Tank Chemistry
pH 8.1
Ca 430s
Alk 8.0
Nitrate 5
Phosphate 0.05-0.10
Temp fluxes 78-80 (live in Dallas, its hot AF here)

Lighting: 2 AP9x set to 95% + 4 T5

Things I have done:
1. started dosing Neonitro. I know my tank is ULNS and most of my SPS are pale because of it. My Nitrates about 2 weeks ago were 0 and phosphate was 0.02. Prior to this frags were growing very well. I have since dosed the nitrates up to 5.0ish but the decline in my SPS seems to be accelerating.
2. checked for pests, I have dipped several frags that appeared to be affected. The only thing I got were what looked like copepods that I have seen crawling on the frag plugs. I have not seen any bugs per se actually on live coral tissue.
3. inspected all the magnets in the tank - all intact.
4. reduced lighting to 75%

Things I am thinking of doing:
1. Send for ICP testing.
2. I initially thought this may be a pest issue but I just haven't seen anything on the coral at all (previous post looking for incereptor). I have thought about treating with interceptor if I can get my hands on it. I don't have any inverts of value except for clams in the tank at the moment.

***Could this be a delayed response to my nutrients bottoming out 2-3 weeks ago? Should I be looking harder for pests? Any ideas suggestions thoughts on what could be going on would be much appreciated?

Umm this is easy, you pretty much answered your own question. Neo nitro nitrates dropped to 0 caused a swing stressed out the corals. Most importantly your phosphates probably dropped too, which for me is what usually causes the RTN more often than nitrate drops. What I would suggest is start feeding your system on a consistent basis, stop Neo nitro, calculate how much that bottle really cost you and call it a day, and do Nothing Else. Adopt the mentality of , “what will die will die”. The reason your corals are dying now is that our fish tanks are kind of like large ships , you can’t just hit the breaks and expect them to stop on the spot, very often issues will continue to show up even when everything is already fixed. The easy way to check if your system is back to normal is to add a few new/healthy Acros and to monitor them. If they die then your system needs attention, if they show no signs of stress then your system is back to normal and you should really leave it be. What most of us would do is mess with the lights, waterchanges, ICP, Flow, start dosing stuff they didn’t, all of these actions will continue to kill your sps.

 

[MnFish1]

Umm this is easy, you pretty much answered your own question. Neo nitro nitrates dropped to 0 caused a swing stressed out the corals. Most importantly your phosphates probably dropped too, which for me is what usually causes the RTN more often than nitrate drops. What I would suggest is start feeding your system on a consistent basis, stop Neo nitro, calculate how much that bottle really cost you and call it a day, and do Nothing Else. Adopt the mentality of , “what will die will die”. The reason your corals are dying now is that our fish tanks are kind of like large ships , you can’t just hit the breaks and expect them to stop on the spot, very often issues will continue to show up even when everything is already fixed. The easy way to check if your system is back to normal is to add a few new/healthy Acros and to monitor them. If they die then your system needs attention, if they show no signs of stress then your system is back to normal and you should really leave it be. What most of us would do is mess with the lights, waterchanges, ICP, Flow, start dosing stuff they didn’t, all of these actions will continue to kill your sps.

This is key IMHO - nicely written. I'm not sure its nitrate and PO4 if it was low for just a short time - but if there was a quick drop - or it persisted for a while, this could be the issue.

 

[ScottB]

Adding PO4 first would have been safer. In a (near) depleted nutrient system, adding nitrates first accelerates the consumption of PO4. Which is deadly. Also leads to dinoflagellates.

 

[liudachris]

This is key IMHO - nicely written. I'm not sure its nitrate and PO4 if it was low for just a short time - but if there was a quick drop - or it persisted for a while, this could be the issue.

I kind of let the nitrates stay 0 for several months, just started adding neo nitro to try and bring it up. Mainly to address the pale coloration

500 in middle of tank seems high

Yea turned that down, my lights are AP9x and trying to cover the edges and also reach the bottom of the tank is tough

 

[liudachris]

I assume you have left for your work trip.
Do you have a full tank shot?
Can you list the types of coral in your collection? (That is in the whole tank.)

You do have a light load. I can see why things bottomed out.
Have you thought about dosing ammonia?

Water changes is all you need to keep up with elements.
I feel your primary problem might be nutrients but it also could be water quality.
Your list of coral might be a clue.
Do you run GAC?

Been trying to keep the system simple. I have only SPS in the tank. I haven’t thought of dosing ammonia but I have started neonitro since the nitrates have been 0 for a while.