Sick Pyramid Butterfly Help with Diagnosis; One lost

[NancyT3]

I have a 140 gal FOwLR tank, Salinity 30.1 PPM, PH 8.1, 0 Phos,0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrite, 0 Nitrate, with four healthy fish - 2 ocelleris clowns, 1 diamond goby and 1 Talbot's Damsel. Have algae and copapods, The larger butterfly early on had a white growth on his mouth and both when I got them had scale/ gray marks on sides. I treated the food mysis shrimp and chopped clams with Focus and Kanaplex per prescription and they healed up and looked great. Thought it was maybe a bacterial infection. Fins look good, no aggression in the tank, no spots. Finished that treatment a week ago or so. eating well, swimming well. Suddenly last weekend my usually vigorous Longnose hawkfish did not show up at mealtime and disappeared. I keep checking water parameters. no ammonia, no nitrites. Then the two butterflies started acting odd, swimming side by side and going to top of the tank nose up and then nose down. In fact everyone in the tank was all acting freaked out and hiding like something happened overnight. Butterflies were going behind rocks and turning dark stress colors, but they would come out and eat well and then go back and disappear. Two days ago I saw little white baby fish (eyes and a tail larvae) the size of a pencil eraser swimming fast through the tank and the other fish were eating them. They got pulled into the overflow and were gone quickly. So I thought, did they spawn? I have no idea, but not copopods... And they are gone now. Today my Butterflies did not show up to eat, so I pulled them and put them in the QT tank. In my DT I did a 10% water change anyway. Added copper to the QT tank - initial dose. Small butterfly died this evening. Pictures of my poor guy, attached. Larger one is acting a little better, but is swimming upside down.... What are your thoughts about what is wrong/ what went wrong? Treatment options or how to avoid next time? What if anything to do for my DT to protect other fish? Thanks

 

[vetteguy53081]

I have a 140 gal FOwLR tank, Salinity 30.1 PPM, PH 8.1, 0 Phos,0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrite, 0 Nitrate, with four healthy fish - 2 ocelleris clowns, 1 diamond goby and 1 Talbot's Damsel. Have algae and copapods, The larger butterfly early on had a white growth on his mouth and both when I got them had scale/ gray marks on sides. I treated the food mysis shrimp and chopped clams with Focus and Kanaplex per prescription and they healed up and looked great. Thought it was maybe a bacterial infection. Fins look good, no aggression in the tank, no spots. Finished that treatment a week ago or so. eating well, swimming well. Suddenly last weekend my usually vigorous Longnose hawkfish did not show up at mealtime and disappeared. I keep checking water parameters. no ammonia, no nitrites. Then the two butterflies started acting odd, swimming side by side and going to top of the tank nose up and then nose down. In fact everyone in the tank was all acting freaked out and hiding like something happened overnight. Butterflies were going behind rocks and turning dark stress colors, but they would come out and eat well and then go back and disappear. Two days ago I saw little white baby fish (eyes and a tail larvae) the size of a pencil eraser swimming fast through the tank and the other fish were eating them. They got pulled into the overflow and were gone quickly. So I thought, did they spawn? I have no idea, but not copopods... And they are gone now. Today my Butterflies did not show up to eat, so I pulled them and put them in the QT tank. In my DT I did a 10% water change anyway. Added copper to the QT tank - initial dose. Small butterfly died this evening. Pictures of my poor guy, attached. Larger one is acting a little better, but is swimming upside down.... What are your thoughts about what is wrong/ what went wrong? Treatment options or how to avoid next time? What if anything to do for my DT to protect other fish? Thanks

Its hard to assess a dead carcass however the fish in pic look a little thin and the dots on the body suggest possibility of ich or velvet.

 

[Jekyl]

Welcome to R2R. Sorry that this is happening to you. White light pics and a video of current fish may help prevent further issue.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I have a 140 gal FOwLR tank, Salinity 30.1 PPM, PH 8.1, 0 Phos,0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrite, 0 Nitrate, with four healthy fish - 2 ocelleris clowns, 1 diamond goby and 1 Talbot's Damsel. Have algae and copapods, The larger butterfly early on had a white growth on his mouth and both when I got them had scale/ gray marks on sides. I treated the food mysis shrimp and chopped clams with Focus and Kanaplex per prescription and they healed up and looked great. Thought it was maybe a bacterial infection. Fins look good, no aggression in the tank, no spots. Finished that treatment a week ago or so. eating well, swimming well. Suddenly last weekend my usually vigorous Longnose hawkfish did not show up at mealtime and disappeared. I keep checking water parameters. no ammonia, no nitrites. Then the two butterflies started acting odd, swimming side by side and going to top of the tank nose up and then nose down. In fact everyone in the tank was all acting freaked out and hiding like something happened overnight. Butterflies were going behind rocks and turning dark stress colors, but they would come out and eat well and then go back and disappear. Two days ago I saw little white baby fish (eyes and a tail larvae) the size of a pencil eraser swimming fast through the tank and the other fish were eating them. They got pulled into the overflow and were gone quickly. So I thought, did they spawn? I have no idea, but not copopods... And they are gone now. Today my Butterflies did not show up to eat, so I pulled them and put them in the QT tank. In my DT I did a 10% water change anyway. Added copper to the QT tank - initial dose. Small butterfly died this evening. Pictures of my poor guy, attached. Larger one is acting a little better, but is swimming upside down.... What are your thoughts about what is wrong/ what went wrong? Treatment options or how to avoid next time? What if anything to do for my DT to protect other fish? Thanks

Welcome!

Pyramid butterflies are REALLY prone to Neobenedenia flukes, they almost always have them. The symptoms you mentioned could have been that, but perhaps not.

I wonder is the “baby fish” that you saw were mysid shrimp?

 

[NancyT3]

I feed them frozen mysis, so nothing living. The ones I saw were fast swimming, darting around and looked like eyeballs with a tail. Didn't look like shrimp - but hey - I am new at this, so could have been! Thank you for info on the flukes. How do you identify them and does it cause a sudden decline?

 

[NancyT3]

Welcome!

Pyramid butterflies are REALLY prone to Neobenedenia flukes, they almost always have them. The symptoms you mentioned could have been that, but perhaps not.

I wonder is the “baby fish” that you saw were mysid shrimp?

Thank you for the reply. I will read up on those flukes. What do you recommend as next steps to address the display tank, if anything. How do you determine if the disease that got my fish is still in there?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thank you for the reply. I will read up on those flukes. What do you recommend as next steps to address the display tank, if anything. How do you determine if the disease that got my fish is still in there?

If it is flukes, you can treat that in your display tank with Prazipro, dosed three times, 8 days apart with good aeration. Remove any carbon filtration. Run any skimmers, but don’t collect the skimmate.

Note: I just reread your post and saw that you said the second fish was swimming upside down - that is a very bad sign, I’m guessing it didn’t survive the night.

Can you post a video of the remaining fish?

Jay

 

[NancyT3]

Here are videos of my remaining fish

 

[NancyT3]

And you are right - the other one did not survive either.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Here are videos of my remaining fish

Sorry - I’m at my camper for the weekend and can’t view your videos on my phone. Hopefully one of the other fish medics can view them!