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[ofblong]

uhh I wasnt in any way talking about the amount of fish he has. So you went off the deep end a little. I have 2 black and whites in a 29g and they are FINE hell they hardly move from the corner they are in.

 

[CrustaceanNut]

just one thought to ponder, have you ever thought while you were diving that said puffer etc etc were swimming those distances to find food? Puff Daddy knows where his food comes from and doesnt stress about it swimming about he will take naps and swim about frolicking. Now I do agree in the future I do need a bigger space for these fish and it is in the works but for right now I dont believe these fish are unhappy just by their attitudes. Your point is well taken.

 

[Reef Goddess]

So if we keep you in a closet and feed you'll be happy to right? lol

Maybe, when your fish reaches 26" and can barely turn around you will have hit the jackpot and have a 5000 tank to put him in.

 

[salt newbie01]

Awesome fish!! Man he is huge - very cool to see one that big. How big was he when you got him?? Really cool if you got him small and watched him grow.



RG; Are you saying we need to consider how much space a fish occupies in the wild before putting them in our tanks? If so I hope you realize 90% (probably - I haven't read that % just taking a stab at it) of the fish we commonly keep should be off the market. I mean there are not many fish that will stay in one small area for their lives. I can appreciate where you are coming from (sort of) but I think you are being a little unrealistic. By your statements you are being cruel to your lion fish if you are just keeping him in a 3'x3' tank. I'm sure in the wild that lion fish would cover a lot more "ground" than a little 3'x3' area. Right?? And by your statements we shouldn't put a fish in a tank that will require an upgrade, but that is what you have done with the lion.

So maybe this guy has too many fish in his 210. It seems little hard core to go on and on like you have. This is the kind of things that makes people not post or leave a frum all together. There are fish, dogs, horses, alpacas, birds etc being kept in conditions they shouldn't be. Instead of flaming someone on an open board why not write a book, publish an article in reef keeping magazine about it- you would reach more people that way, educate more people that way. It is hard to change someone's mind about something when they are having success with what they are doing. But to put proper info out there so people will read it when researching a purchase, that seems like time well spent.

just my .02

 

[NORTHERN REEF]

Awesome fish!! Man he is huge - very cool to see one that big. How big was he when you got him?? Really cool if you got him small and watched him grow.



RG; Are you saying we need to consider how much space a fish occupies in the wild before putting them in our tanks? If so I hope you realize 90% (probably - I haven't read that % just taking a stab at it) of the fish we commonly keep should be off the market. I mean there are not many fish that will stay in one small area for their lives. I can appreciate where you are coming from (sort of) but I think you are being a little unrealistic. By your statements you are being cruel to your lion fish if you are just keeping him in a 3'x3' tank. I'm sure in the wild that lion fish would cover a lot more "ground" than a little 3'x3' area. Right?? And by your statements we shouldn't put a fish in a tank that will require an upgrade, but that is what you have done with the lion.

So maybe this guy has too many fish in his 210. It seems little hard core to go on and on like you have. This is the kind of things that makes people not post or leave a frum all together. There are fish, dogs, horses, alpacas, birds etc being kept in conditions they shouldn't be. Instead of flaming someone on an open board why not write a book, publish an article in reef keeping magazine about it- you would reach more people that way, educate more people that way. It is hard to change someone's mind about something when they are having success with what they are doing. But to put proper info out there so people will read it when researching a purchase, that seems like time well spent.

just my .02

very well stated,that is a big reason why i really don't share what fish i have to often, i would really love to share my pics and stuff like that but for this exact reason i don't do it

 

[salt newbie01]

Well feel free to pm them to me!!!LOL!!! I would love to see them...I am planning a 220 FOWLR and would love to talk/pm with someone that is having success to get some ideas so I can do it right the first time.

 

[CrustaceanNut]

get the biggest skimmer you can afford, lots of sump with a few bio towers for lots of oxygenation, water changes as needed, and get used to cleaning the skimmer a lot.

 

[Reef Goddess]

All I was looking for is what I got, an admission that yes maybe he has too many large fish in one tank and that he'll look into upgrading in the future. Why is it unrealistic to ask that we consider how large a fish will grow to be before we purchase it?

How am I being unfair and "flaming" this guy when he is defending having a 14" fish in a 6 foot space. That is truly nothing and he has it with 6 other large fish on top of that.

But I'm the one out of line huh? I think I should just skip this forum altogether since everyone is content with putting large fish in small spaces and doesn't see anything wrong with it. If you don't feel my post has value then I seriously doubt you would buy my book. This is exactly what I was talking about too many people have these fish because they look "cool" not because they want to create a realistic habitat for them.

I have my lion in as realistic a space as I can provide for him and I try to give him plenty of room to swim. There are only four other small fish in the tank with him and he pretty much gets to rule the place. I agree that I would like him in a 200 at least and I would feel happier for him. At least I care that he may not have enough room as he grows larger.

Like I said, I know we can't provide the exact same territory size for the fish we keep, but a 14" fish should be kept in a minimum of 600+ gallons to truly be happy. Why is that such a hard thing to conceive? Just because you can't afford a tank that big justifies you keeping a fish that size in a smaller tank? On top of that, triggerfish and puffers are very intelligent fish, they aren't like big gold fish. So it is even more important for their well being that they are given a complex environment to make them happy.

This is an open forum where people should be able to try and educate others as well as compliment them on their tanks. I'd didn't say "Oh he's a terrible person for keeping those fish", I even gave him the benefit of the doubt and said maybe he doesn't know better or is planning a large tank upgrade.
If someone on this forum buys a bunch of white or dyed corals and thinks its cool, do you think some people aren't going to say "Hey dude those corals aren't what you think they are and they probably won't make it." So what's the difference? Maybe if I had a phd in marine biology you'd pay more attention. I'm an experienced reefer as are others on this forum and its just my observation that its not so nice to pack all those large fish together. But what do you guys care?

 

[Reef Goddess]

Bioballs create nitrates.

 

[CrustaceanNut]

Bio balls do not create nitrates. Lack of maintenance creates nitrates.

 

[CrustaceanNut]

All I was looking for is what I got, an admission that yes maybe he has too many large fish in one tank and that he'll look into upgrading in the future. Why is it unrealistic to ask that we consider how large a fish will grow to be before we purchase it?

How am I being unfair and "flaming" this guy when he is defending having a 14" fish in a 6 foot space. That is truly nothing and he has it with 6 other large fish on top of that.

But I'm the one out of line huh? I think I should just skip this forum altogether since everyone is content with putting large fish in small spaces and doesn't see anything wrong with it. If you don't feel my post has value then I seriously doubt you would buy my book. This is exactly what I was talking about too many people have these fish because they look "cool" not because they want to create a realistic habitat for them.

I have my lion in as realistic a space as I can provide for him and I try to give him plenty of room to swim. There are only four other small fish in the tank with him and he pretty much gets to rule the place. I agree that I would like him in a 200 at least and I would feel happier for him. At least I care that he may not have enough room as he grows larger.

Like I said, I know we can't provide the exact same territory size for the fish we keep, but a 14" fish should be kept in a minimum of 600+ gallons to truly be happy. Why is that such a hard thing to conceive? Just because you can't afford a tank that big justifies you keeping a fish that size in a smaller tank? On top of that, triggerfish and puffers are very intelligent fish, they aren't like big gold fish. So it is even more important for their well being that they are given a complex environment to make them happy.

This is an open forum where people should be able to try and educate others as well as compliment them on their tanks. I'd didn't say "Oh he's a terrible person for keeping those fish", I even gave him the benefit of the doubt and said maybe he doesn't know better or is planning a large tank upgrade.
If someone on this forum buys a bunch of white or dyed corals and thinks its cool, do you think some people aren't going to say "Hey dude those corals aren't what you think they are and they probably won't make it." So what's the difference? Maybe if I had a phd in marine biology you'd pay more attention. I'm an experienced reefer as are others on this forum and its just my observation that its not so nice to pack all those large fish together. But what do you guys care?

if a fish has never experienced anything different how would he know he is missing anything? Amish live happy lives without cars? If a family lives in a small house does that make them any less happy then a family that lives in a mansion? Its all about relativity. I will give you the choice between a 1200 square foot house or a mansion that has a murderer living in it, whats your choice? We put babies in cribs after they are born maybe we should put them in a king size bed. I am sure you can see where I am taking this. If the fish doesnt know any different, do you think he knows there is an ocean out there and he is waiting for his chance to escape? I dont think you can speak "Fish" so I dont think you can truly judge wether a fish is happy or not. This is truly your opinion against others and there is no research to prove either side right so please just stop.

 

[Reef Goddess]

If the fish is 14" long and it was taken from the ocean then it knows the difference. Anyways I'm tired of wasting my breath on you guys, my husband is right, you guys don't care and you won't change. I just hope you are reincarnated as a 14" fish in a 6' tank when you die, then you can see how enjoyable it is in person.

 

[ofblong]

Bio balls do not create nitrates. Lack of maintenance creates nitrates.

actually bio balls are the culprit for HOLDING nitrates. they dont create them that is true but they do hold them. BUT like you said lack of maintenance doesnt help either.

 

[Reef Goddess]

The bacteria in bio-balls are not able to break down nitrates and there really is no use for them other than to slow down your flow. If you have a skimmer and plenty of live rock they serve no purpose.
Crustacean doesn't appear to have a lid on his tank and he has power heads, so what's he need extra oxygenation for? If in doubt add an airstone. Bioballs only trap nutrients and in a tank with that many big fish I would think that's the last thing you want. Remove the bioballs and let the skimmer do its job. If its a good skimmer then it will be able to handle the load.

 

[NORTHERN REEF]

bio balls do not hold nitrates or create them, they should be rinsed out during maintnence everytime, just like your canisters should be cleaned are canister filters nitrate factorys too?? no if cleaned, sure if you never clean them then they are nitrate factorys, you are suppose to use a filter pad over the top of your bio balls to help stop that problem of waste build up but they should be cleaned regaurdless,here is a very good article on this matter http://saltaquarium.about.com/library/weekly/mcurrent.htm

bio balls are the key to hold in good bacteria,oxygenation,biological filtration

after reading this article it is basicly and open shut case imo, don't blame the bio balls when it is not their fault:bigsmile:

 

[revhtree]

Poor Bio Balls get all the blame.......:snicker:

 

[NORTHERN REEF]

Poor Bio Balls get all the blame.......:snicker:

lol good one, yea i hear a lot of folks complain about them but actually if properly maintained they are awesome

 

[ironman]

HEHE! bio balls rule!
But really, if you look in his picture, he isnt exactly loaded with live rock, He needs those bio balls to hold his bacteria, I agree in a reef you are asking for trouble with bio balls, and dont need them anyways. But I dont know many people with fowler tanks that arnt running some sort of bioballs.

As for the fish sizing issue, I like the points made about speaking fish! thats a good one. Bottom line we dont know what the fish are thinking. If the fish is healthy then I would assume it is happy. If a fish is stressed by its surroundings it will let you know quickly. I think maybe things would go alot smoother if people would PM there negative opinions instead of broadcasting them in public. As much as some people think they are being informative and not bashing the people they are posting about, usually it doesnt come across that way to anyone other than the person doing the bashing. I think in this case PEDA would have a new member. I dont totally disagree with everything said reef goddess, but I think you take it to a different level, and to be honest from what you have posted im surprised you keep anything coral or fish from the wild. I would half expect you to only keep aquacultured fish and coral, because I dont see anyway to make a fish as happy in a tank as it is in the wild. Infact, take a minute and post every fish, coral and piece of aquarium equipment you have and use, I think people would have a hayday here picking stuff apart. We for the most part try and do the best we can with what we have available.

 

[Reef Goddess]

What purpose do they serve if you already have a skimmer and live rock? Enlighten me. And what's this about "removing all your bio-balls can cause your tank to crash" where on earth did they get that one?

 

[Reef Goddess]

Very well. I won't post on reef2reef ever again. Good day.