should I stop maintaining my parameters with TM all for reef?

[DHill6]

I had a lot of green popping up, nuisance algae. Seemed like a lot of guess work on the Alk.

 

[areefer01]

Any time alk is not being maintained, you need to dose more.

I'm not caught up on the thread but I'm assuming they are aware the lag time for Alk to be measured after makign slight corrections.

If you find calcium is dropping long term, add some in a different way.

You already know but in case others don't TM says the same thing. Manually adjust the outlier...

 

[Sidsreef]

Any FTS?

HERE are the shots as requested

 

[Sidsreef]

I'm not caught up on the thread but I'm assuming they are aware the lag time for Alk to be measured after makign slight corrections.



You already know but in case others don't TM says the same thing. Manually adjust the outlier...

lets assume we dont know ALK lag time after dosing AFR. can you explain that

 

[HudsonReefer2.0]

Like the branches. Great for sps.

 

[Sidsreef]

Update on the dosing:

I have turned up the volume of AFR that I dose my tank at 60ML a day and I have a max dose volume of 80ML according to the manufactures direction.

i had to dose red sea to spot-check my alk and bring it up. same with calcium and mag. then i turned up the volume amount on my pump from 40ML to 60ML. i then just waited till the next day for it to dose. the dosing pump dose's the tank at 10 am. my trident does a test at 12 ( ample time to settle) all my values were decreased from the red sea dosing. it seems like the AFR didn't even touch it. Does anyone have an explanation for this. is there a lag time? should i notice levels spiking immediately after dosing AFR?

 

[HudsonReefer2.0]

Like the branches. Great for sps.

Aqua rocks?

 

[Sidsreef]

Aqua rocks?

yeah aqua rocks!! i love that company they make cool stuff

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Update on the dosing:

I have turned up the volume of AFR that I dose my tank at 60ML a day and I have a max dose volume of 80ML according to the manufactures direction.

i had to dose red sea to spot-check my alk and bring it up. same with calcium and mag. then i turned up the volume amount on my pump from 40ML to 60ML. i then just waited till the next day for it to dose. the dosing pump dose's the tank at 10 am. my trident does a test at 12 ( ample time to settle) all my values were decreased from the red sea dosing. it seems like the AFR didn't even touch it. Does anyone have an explanation for this. is there a lag time? should i notice levels spiking immediately after dosing AFR?

AFR does not add alk in a detectable form. It (as the chemical formate) needs to be metabolized by bacteria or other organisms to bicarbonate/carbonate before it is detectable, and likely before it is usable by corals.

 

[areefer01]

lets assume we dont know ALK lag time after dosing AFR. can you explain that

It would probably be best if @Lou Ekus (Tropic marin) or @Randy Holmes-Farley explained since I'm not a chemist. Just a user but the short of it is how the product is designed or works. Or so I understand. Alk is part of the calcium formate and when it gets metabolized calcium and alk is released. The time it takes to do this is what I called 'lag'. Delay, lag, not sure what the right term is, sorry. But it is not instant as it relates to ALK.

I see it immediately if I manually dose a traditional 2 part component (ESV in my case). I will not see ALK right away if I bump up my TM AFR dose. It may take a couple days to a week. Not sure if this helped. Apologies.

Edit: I dose TM AFR and currently at about 100 ml/day. I peaked earlier at about 120 ml/day but since dropped it down since I wanted a bit lower Ca.

 

[Sidsreef]

It would probably be best if @Lou Ekus (Tropic marin) or @Randy Holmes-Farley explained since I'm not a chemist. Just a user but the short of it is how the product is designed or works. Or so I understand. Alk is part of the calcium formate and when it gets metabolized calcium and alk is released. The time it takes to do this is what I called 'lag'. Delay, lag, not sure what the right term is, sorry. But it is not instant as it relates to ALK.

I see it immediately if I manually dose a traditional 2 part component (ESV in my case). I will not see ALK right away if I bump up my TM AFR dose. It may take a couple days to a week. Not sure if this helped. Apologies.

Edit: I dose TM AFR and currently at about 100 ml/day. I peaked earlier at about 120 ml/day but since dropped it down since I wanted a bit lower Ca.

I dose 120 ml/day of TM AFR. Works as advertised. Based on your post I'm not sure I understand the displays overall maturity level as it relates to age and coral growth. 1/4" frags are different that 3" colonies. TM AFR has a pretty large following with many happy hobbyist and successful reefs.

Have you plotted out your daily or weekly Alk, Ca, and Mg consumption? You need to know this regardless of what product you are dosing.

AFR does not add alk in a detectable form. It (as the chemical formate) needs to be metabolized by bacteria or other organisms to bicarbonate/carbonate before it is detectable, and likely before it is usable by corals.

This was what I was talking about regarding maturity in the tank due to bacteria and the tank being new

 

[areefer01]

This was what I was talking about regarding maturity in the tank due to bacteria and the tank being new

I replied and I see that RHF already did My apologies.

 

[Hooz]

With AFR, you CAN dose once a day, bit if you're using a dosing pump anyway, split it up into multiple smaller doses.

The formate needs to be metabolized by bacteria to "release" the alkalinity and calcium. Bacteria are constantly working, but they can only do so much.

When using alkalinity as the guage, IMO it's important to always test at the same time of the day, and dose at the same time of the day. You dosed and then tested soon after and saw no change. If you tested again 12 hours later, I'm sure your results would've been very different.

I dose 6x a day, every 4 hours (even over night). I can test any time during the day and my numbers are very consistent.

I really only noticed the "lag" when I started with AFR, and a little when I up my dosages. After a while it becomes more immediate, but it's never instant.

Because of that, I always stick with a dose amount for 3 days, testing each day, before I consider making any changes.

 

[areefer01]

I dose spread out between 0900 and 2000.

 

[Sidsreef]

I replied and I see that RHF already did My apologies.

No need to apologize!!! Haha we’re all learning here! I just am inexperienced at this and I’m trying to wrap my head around everything. Your input has helped allot!!

 

[Sidsreef]

With AFR, you CAN dose once a day, bit if you're using a dosing pump anyway, split it up into multiple smaller doses.

The formate needs to be metabolized by bacteria to "release" the alkalinity and calcium. Bacteria are constantly working, but they can only do so much.

When using alkalinity as the guage, IMO it's important to always test at the same time of the day, and dose at the same time of the day. You dosed and then tested soon after and saw no change. If you tested again 12 hours later, I'm sure your results would've been very different.

I dose 6x a day, every 4 hours (even over night). I can test any time during the day and my numbers are very consistent.

I really only noticed the "lag" when I started with AFR, and a little when I up my dosages. After a while it becomes more immediate, but it's never instant.

Because of that, I always stick with a dose amount for 3 days, testing each day, before I consider making any changes.

So the question that I have is my bacteria is lagging a lil bit how do I enhance this process? cause it seems like I’m dosing this and the bacteria isn’t playing catch up with my dosing and my dropping levels. Do I just wait and time will tell? And would I just spot dose with Red Sea until AFR starts workin?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

So the question that I have is my bacteria is lagging a lil bit how do I enhance this process? cause it seems like I’m dosing this and the bacteria isn’t playing catch up with my dosing and my dropping levels. Do I just wait and time will tell? And would I just spot dose with Red Sea until AFR starts workin?

The formate in AFR is not readily metabolized by most bacteria, so the only thing you can do, aside from possibly transferring some media or rocks or sand from a tank that has been using a lot of AFR for an extended period, is just wait for the bacteria that can consume formate to naturally expand in numbers.

Generally, however, this is not a big deal, apparently. Just be careful in the early days to not overdose based on alk testing.

 

[Hooz]

The formate in AFR is not readily metabolized by most bacteria, so the only thing you can do, aside from possibly transferring some media or rocks or sand from a tank that has been using a lot of AFR for an extended period, is just wait for the bacteria that can consume formate to naturally expand in numbers.

Generally, however, this is not a big deal, apparently. Just be careful in the early days to not overdose based on alk testing.

Like Randy said, it's a lot like cycling a tank. You start slow to get things going, but once it's established the tank adapts more rapidly to changes. That's been my experience anyway.

The most important thing with AFR is to not get in a hurry. It may seem kind of tedious when you're getting started. To me, it's worth it to not have to dose 5 different things but there is certainly no instant gratification.

I've helped several local buddies get switch to AFR. Once they start to understand it and get a feel for how it works, not a single one has regretted the switch. It is very different than traditional dosing though, so there is a learning curve.

 

[Lou Ekus]

I would also add this... It is also my opinion (I always add that qualifier because I know there will be some who disagree with me, and I never mean to say things are 100% only my way! ) that all the different kinds of bacteria that you need are usually already in your system. This is especially true for systems that have a little age to them. You have just been promoting the growth of one kind or another, but they are all in there. Additionally, most types of bacteria in our systems can multiply quite rapidly. So there is not usually the need to add a lot more bacteria. The only thing that is needed is a little patience to let the specific type of bacteria grow once you start "feeding" it well with something like formate. Patience in the key here. If you wait a little before making tons of changes to what you are doing, most of the time things even out and find an equilibrium that then is pretty consistent and easy to understand and accommodate with small periodic additions of one thing or the other (Ca or alkalinity).

Given a little time, I think you will find this to be true.

 

[Sidsreef]

I would also add this... It is also my opinion (I always add that qualifier because I know there will be some who disagree with me, and I never mean to say things are 100% only my way! ) that all the different kinds of bacteria that you need are usually already in your system. This is especially true for systems that have a little age to them. You have just been promoting the growth of one kind or another, but they are all in there. Additionally, most types of bacteria in our systems can multiply quite rapidly. So there is not usually the need to add a lot more bacteria. The only thing that is needed is a little patience to let the specific type of bacteria grow once you start "feeding" it well with something like formate. Patience in the key here. If you wait a little before making tons of changes to what you are doing, most of the time things even out and find an equilibrium that then is pretty consistent and easy to understand and accommodate with small periodic additions of one thing or the other (Ca or alkalinity).

Given a little time, I think you will find this to be true.

Thanks Lou! I appreciate it!