Should I be concerned? Is this ich?

[pinocchio]

@vetteguy53081

I am going to try to start treatment today if I can find . I just want to make sure I have the procedure right and have some questions answered about some steps

Step 1. If I can find formalin, I first dip the fish in this.

Question: Do I dip all fish? Or just the clown with visible signs? How long do I “dip” for? Is it a quick drop in and out? Or is it like 10 seconds? 30 seconds? Minute?

Step 1 (Alt Version). Quick dip of fish in freshwater or saltwater at same temp as tank.

Question: same question as before, so I dip all fish? And for how long.

Step 2. Quick dip in saltwater to rinse off formalin before adding to QT tank.

Step 3. Add Ruby Rally Pro as instructed on bottle.

Step 4. Leave display tank empty for 4-6 weeks.

Follow up questions: some people are saying it’s fine to treat in main display because it’s reef safe. Is this worth doing? Is that really safe?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

It not being a cure is understandable, but shouldn't we boost the immunity system anyway the same way we basically do to humans? And if not mistaken, garlic attracts difficult-to-eat fish and increases chances of eating (therefore reducing chances of it starving?).

Garlic truly got over-hyped back in the day. It doesn't work very well as an appetite stimulant, and can be over-dosed. Some people began adding it to the water, and that is a mistake. Remember, if you soak food in it, as soon as you add that food to the tank, it will start leeching right back out.

There were some studies early on that showed that allicin in garlic reduced levels of some pathogens (Aeromonas bacteria for example) but reducing is not the same as eliminating - what we need to avoid is people trying to use garlic as a cure for any active disease, as opposed to a food additive that is part of a broader dietary plan.

Personally, I use pelleted food (NLS) that has garlic in it and call it good.

Jay

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@vetteguy53081

I am going to try to start treatment today if I can find . I just want to make sure I have the procedure right and have some questions answered about some steps

Step 1. If I can find formalin, I first dip the fish in this.

Question: Do I dip all fish? Or just the clown with visible signs? How long do I “dip” for? Is it a quick drop in and out? Or is it like 10 seconds? 30 seconds? Minute?

Step 1 (Alt Version). Quick dip of fish in freshwater or saltwater at same temp as tank.

Question: same question as before, so I dip all fish? And for how long.

Step 2. Quick dip in saltwater to rinse off formalin before adding to QT tank.

Step 3. Add Ruby Rally Pro as instructed on bottle.

Step 4. Leave display tank empty for 4-6 weeks.

Follow up questions: some people are saying it’s fine to treat in main display because it’s reef safe. Is this worth doing? Is that really safe?

Formalin dips are a bit tricky. Formalin is also pretty toxic, any chance you can do the dips outdoors? Rally Pro isn't as effective as formalin IMO, but it is a heck of a lot safer.

If you go with formalin, you need to find 37% formaldehyde, which is called 100% formalin. Do not use the 10% NBF product. The time and dose is critical. I use 100 ppm for 45 minutes in a bucket with really good aeration. 100 ppm = 0.38 milliliter per gallon, a very tiny amount. After 45 minutes, return the fish to the tank. Some people then dose the quarantine tank with 25 ppm formalin daily - that is 0.9 ml per ten gallons.

Jay

 

[vetteguy53081]

@vetteguy53081

I am going to try to start treatment today if I can find . I just want to make sure I have the procedure right and have some questions answered about some steps

Step 1. If I can find formalin, I first dip the fish in this.

Question: Do I dip all fish? Or just the clown with visible signs? How long do I “dip” for? Is it a quick drop in and out? Or is it like 10 seconds? 30 seconds? Minute?

Step 1 (Alt Version). Quick dip of fish in freshwater or saltwater at same temp as tank.

Question: same question as before, so I dip all fish? And for how long.

Step 2. Quick dip in saltwater to rinse off formalin before adding to QT tank.

Step 3. Add Ruby Rally Pro as instructed on bottle.

Step 4. Leave display tank empty for 4-6 weeks.

Follow up questions: some people are saying it’s fine to treat in main display because it’s reef safe. Is this worth doing? Is that really safe?

i would go with ruby Rally Pro. As mentioned, it takes longer but is safer. If not applied precisely can be fatal to fish. The one suggested from AquaNest is 37% and must be diluted.

 

[pinocchio]

And just to be clear, I should be treating ALL my fish with Ruby Rally and then QTing them? Or just treat one showing signs and then QT all of them?

 

[Sharkbait19]

And just to be clear, I should be treating ALL my fish with Ruby Rally and then QTing them? Or just treat one showing signs and then QT all of them?

Treat all fish - with most diseases it is safe to assume all fish are infected.

 

[pinocchio]

@Jay Hemdal @vetteguy53081 @Sharkbait19

so I started treatment. Everything seems to be going well so far. I am bathing them in 4 gallons of water and was surprised at how little Ruby Rally Pro I needed. For 4 gallons it was about 1/4 oz. Seems low to me but bottle says 1oz per 20 gallons.

Also for the life of me I cannot catch my gramma fish. He hides in the smallest crevices of my rocks. I know that I need to get him somehow. Any idea how aside from trying to remove all 50lbs of live rock? I really don’t have an option of doing that. He’s only been in the tank for about 3 days. Is there a chance I’d be safe leaving him in there?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal @vetteguy53081 @Sharkbait19

so I started treatment. Everything seems to be going well so far. I am bathing them in 4 gallons of water and was surprised at how little Ruby Rally Pro I needed. For 4 gallons it was about 1/4 oz. Seems low to me but bottle says 1oz per 20 gallons.

Also for the life of me I cannot catch my gramma fish. He hides in the smallest crevices of my rocks. I know that I need to get him somehow. Any idea how aside from trying to remove all 50lbs of live rock? I really don’t have an option of doing that. He’s only been in the tank for about 3 days. Is there a chance I’d be safe leaving him in there?

It's always that "last fish" that is tough/impossible to catch....you don't want to tear up the tank or injure the fish getting it out, but leaving it in risks the fish with the disease.

Sometimes, you can dim the tank lights, and prop a net up along a piece of rock and chase the fish with another net into the first one (that's how divers catch these fish in the first place).

Jay

 

[vetteguy53081]

@Jay Hemdal @vetteguy53081 @Sharkbait19

so I started treatment. Everything seems to be going well so far. I am bathing them in 4 gallons of water and was surprised at how little Ruby Rally Pro I needed. For 4 gallons it was about 1/4 oz. Seems low to me but bottle says 1oz per 20 gallons.

Also for the life of me I cannot catch my gramma fish. He hides in the smallest crevices of my rocks. I know that I need to get him somehow. Any idea how aside from trying to remove all 50lbs of live rock? I really don’t have an option of doing that. He’s only been in the tank for about 3 days. Is there a chance I’d be safe leaving him in there?

Ruby is a very good product and goes a long way.
For the gramma, take a 1ltr bottle and cut it and bait with its favorite food to make a trap as below:

 

[pinocchio]

So bath is done and the two clowns are in the QT. Unless it’s just wishful thinking, the white haze seems to be gone and the white spot seems to have a brownish center now (maybe it’s his original skin color showing through?)

I am using metroplex in the QT and will be redosing every 2 days for 2 weeks

Going to try to get that gramma tomorrow using suggestions above.

Thanks again everyone for all your help so far!

 

[vetteguy53081]

So bath is done and the two clowns are in the QT. Unless it’s just wishful thinking, the white haze seems to be gone and the white spot seems to have a brownish center now (maybe it’s his original skin color showing through?)

I am using metroplex in the QT and will be redosing every 2 days for 2 weeks

Going to try to get that gramma tomorrow using suggestions above.

Thanks again everyone for all your help so far!


View attachment 3138708

Haze should be gone and now the treatment to work

 

[pinocchio]

One last question… is metroplex good enough for the rest of the quarantine period? Or should I be using some kind of copper too?

 

[pinocchio]

A couple hours after the bath the infected clown started acting very strange. Laying on side on the bottom of the tank. Woke up this morning and he has died.

Still going to try to catch and treat the gramma today.

 

[reeftankdude]

Garlic will NOT do a thing for this and is overrated- It boosts the immunity system slightly and is not a disease curative

That has not been my experience. Garlic even cured cloudy eye on a fish i got from Petco. Did not study the fish good enough befor buying. Got it home and noticed one of the eye was cloudy. Garlic extract claered it up in a week.

 

[vetteguy53081]

That has not been my experience. Garlic even cured cloudy eye on a fish i got from Petco. Did not study the fish good enough befor buying. Got it home and noticed one of the eye was cloudy. Garlic extract claered it up in a week.

In 1998 and again in 2005 it was believed Garlic was a appetite stimulant and helped with disease.
Garlic helps boost immune system and help with disease resistance. It is often coincidental as good water quality and diet helps with disease and garlic is added to foods and given the credit. I use selcon and garlic in my foods occasionally and have 41 fish and there is no way garlic would cure my tank should there be a parasitical outbreak or bacterial. If that were the case, garlic would be the go-to treatment opposed to Prazi, copper, and penecillin based medications like Kanaplex.
Good water quality will clear up a cloudy eye which is often caused by injury or other trauma and with salt elements in salt mixes would clear up an eye injury, but also a risk as infection can occur.

 

[pinocchio]

Finally caught the gramma! Had to shift all live rock to one side of tank, and while he was burrowed in one of the holes I took out the entire piece and shook him out. Just finishing bath. Will update tomorrow.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

That has not been my experience. Garlic even cured cloudy eye on a fish i got from Petco. Did not study the fish good enough befor buying. Got it home and noticed one of the eye was cloudy. Garlic extract claered it up in a week.

Your experience may well have been coincidental.

Garlic truly got over-hyped back in the day. It doesn't work very well as an appetite stimulant, and can be over-dosed. Some people began adding it to the water, and that is a mistake. Remember, if you soak food in it, as soon as you add that food to the tank, it will start leeching right back out.

There were some studies early on that showed that allicin in garlic reduced levels of some pathogens (Aeromonas bacteria for example) but reducing is not the same as eliminating - what we need to avoid is people trying to use garlic as a cure for any active disease, as opposed to a food additive that is part of a broader dietary plan.

Personally, I use pelleted food (NLS) that has garlic in it and call it good.

Jay

 

[pinocchio]

UPDATE:

Surviving clown seems to be moving around and breathing fine. Still not eating though.

Gramma just sits in corner all day. Appears to be breathing normally, although is taking big open mouth breathes. Will also periodically lay on side. Occasionally does big body movements pulling all fins to body and then open a few times. Still not eating as well.

I just did an 80% water change, and does with Metroplex again.

Anything else I should be doing?

 

[reeftankdude]

Your experience may well have been coincidental.

Garlic truly got over-hyped back in the day. It doesn't work very well as an appetite stimulant, and can be over-dosed. Some people began adding it to the water, and that is a mistake. Remember, if you soak food in it, as soon as you add that food to the tank, it will start leeching right back out.

There were some studies early on that showed that allicin in garlic reduced levels of some pathogens (Aeromonas bacteria for example) but reducing is not the same as eliminating - what we need to avoid is people trying to use garlic as a cure for any active disease, as opposed to a food additive that is part of a broader dietary plan.

Personally, I use pelleted food (NLS) that has garlic in it and call it good.

Jay

When the same thing happens more then thrice it is not coincidental. By the way I really appreciate help I have gotten from in the past.

 

[pinocchio]

UPDATE:

Lost Gramma today. I think the Ruby Rally Bathe did him in. After the bathe he was never quite the same.

This whole process has really got me thinking if I should have bathed all the fish, or just the one showing signs. Then I could have monitored all fish in the QT to see if the other fish ended up getting it.

The sole survivor clown is doing well, and was trying to eat today so I am hoping he will survive. I do want to get him a companion clown and was wondering what the best course of action should be for this. Do I complete his quarantine, and then get another clown? Or do I get another clown now and quarantine them together since I’m already still treating the original clown? Any thoughts @Jay Hemdal @vetteguy53081