Seachem Reef Fusion is not properly alk/calcium balanced for 1:1 dosing

Randy Holmes-Farley

Reef Chemist
View Badges
Joined
Sep 5, 2014
Messages
72,100
Reaction score
69,741
Location
Massachusetts, United States
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
A recent thread in the chemistry forum from someone who found that calcium increased with this product while maintaining alkalinity and using 1:1 dosing as advised by Seachem provoked me to check it's manufacturer specifications to see if it was a balanced additive.

From Seachem's claims about it, it is easy to see that it is not properly balanced, despite claims from Seachem that it is. For those who do not care to read further, it seems to have 15-25% too much calcium based on their specifications.

http://www.seachem.com/reef-fusion.php

"Most concentrated two part system; simple 1:1 ratio"

"Reef Fusion 1™ provides not only 100,000 mg/L of ionic calcium, but also includes biologically appropriate levels of magnesium, strontium, boron, iron, manganese, and molybdenum."

"Reef Fusion 2™ contains a mixture of carbonates and bicarbonates at an alkalinity of 4400 meq/L. "

Let's explore that.

Calcium is 100,000 mg/L. Calcium weighs 40 g/mole, so that is 2.50 moles/L.

The alkalinity is 4.4 equivalents/L.

To make calcium carbonate, each mole of calcium reacts with 2 moles of alkalinity. So 2.5 moles/L of calcium reacts with 5 moles/L (5 equivalents per L) of alkalinity.

In terms of making pure calcium carbonate, this product has excess calcium. Specifically, it has 13.6% too much calcium.

It is actually a bit tricky to know exactly how much calcium and alkalinity to have in a two part for two reasons (detailed below), but it is expected that the demand for calcium in a reef tank when using a two part is below the ratio needed for production of pure calcium carbonate due to replacement of some of the calcium demand by magnesium and strontium getting into the calcium carbonate crystal in place of calcium.

In my DIY two part (like from BRS), I chose to use slightly less calcium relative to alkalinity. My calcium part is intended to have 37,000 mg/L calcium (0.92 M) and the alk part has 1.9 eq/L alkalinity. Thus it is intended to have a slight excess of alkalinity relative to calcium. It may not be perfect, depending how the factors discussed below play out in any given reef tank, but it is in the right direction.



Note, the math discussion below is only for chemical/math nerds, and is really shown only so that folks do not throw out the criticism that I forgot these effects that impact the ratio of calcium to alkalinity needed in a reef tank:

1. Pure calcium carbonate does not form in reef aquaria. Magnesium and strontium get into the growing crystal of calcium carbonate, reducing the consumption of calcium relative to alkalinity. So even the "perfect" 1 mole of calcium for each 2 moles of alkalinity is a slight overestimate of the calcium required, and a perfect two part will require less calcium in relation to alkalinity by something like 12.5% (depending on exactly how much magnesium, especially, is getting incorporated, and that depends on exactly which organisms are present). I discuss that ratio in more detail here:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/r...g-three-parameters.321163/page-2#post-3981087

2. An even more esoteric effect relates to the salinity rise when using such a product from the sodium and chloride added. When the salinity is corrected back to normal, it reduces both calcium and alkalinity, requiring more dosing, but curiously, it doesn't require the same amount of each half to be dosed to offset this rise. I have calculated the salinity rise elsewhere,

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/index.php

and it is on the order of a 32% rise in salinity after dosing 1.1 dKH per day for a year (both parts equally) for a total of 401.5 dKH (143.4 meq).

Let's take an example with a 100 liter tank, although tank size doesn't matter in this calculation. To add 401.5 dKH (143.4 meq/L) to 100 liters using the Seachem product with 4.4 eq/L (4,400 meq/L) takes 143.4 meq/L * 100 L /4,400 meq/L = 3.2 liters per year. At the end of that year, salinity has risen by about 32%.

Because of that salinity rise, when corrected back to normal, the alkalintiy decreases by 32%, so 9 dKH becomes 6.12 dKH, and requires extra additive to boost the alk back. That requires an extra 9-6.12 dKH = 2.88 dKH (1.03 meq/L) takes an additional 1.03 meq/l * 100 L / 4,400 meq/L = 0.023 L of alk additive. This effect is pretty small on top of the 3.2L added over that year, and corresponds to only an extra 0.7% of the additive.

The correction is not exactly the same for calcium. If we start at 420 ppm, a 32% drop brings calcium down to 286 ppm. To bring that back up by 420-286 = 134 ppm calcium takes 134 mg/L x 100 L / 100,000 mg/L = 0.13 L. That, in comparison to the ~3.2 L added over the year is a required correction of 4.1% of the total calcium added. So for calcium, this correction is not so trivially small, and tends to increase the amount of calcium needed.
 

Brew12

Electrical Gru
View Badges
Joined
Aug 14, 2016
Messages
22,488
Reaction score
61,061
Location
Decatur, AL
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Bah... that's just your opinion. Ok, maybe not. :p Thanks for sharing this!

“When you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind; it may be the beginning of knowledge, but you have scarely, in your thoughts advanced to the stage of science.” - Lord Kelvin
 

GoVols

Cobb / Webb - 1989
View Badges
Joined
Nov 29, 2016
Messages
13,078
Reaction score
37,567
Location
In-The-Boro, TN
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
lol

Happy Reefing. :D
Randy,
Thanks for sharing and (lol) your # crunching is way over my head :confused:, but.. that's all good :)

Used to dose Seachem Fusion and the two doses were pretty... close :D

Regards,
Mr. Pea
 

bbgobie

Community Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 13, 2017
Messages
25
Reaction score
5
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Thanks for the confirmation. I had the same issue (Alk dropped, while Calcium was maintained)
Have since switched to B-Ionic and not having issues.
 

Cory

More than 25 years reefing
View Badges
Joined
Oct 30, 2014
Messages
6,882
Reaction score
3,137
Location
Canada
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
So grateful to have Randy! Thanks a lot :)
 

jduong916

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Aug 9, 2017
Messages
528
Reaction score
299
Location
Elk Grove
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I've always used your 2 part recipe and noticed my Ca drops after a few months of dosing, your post explains why. I just recently upped the amount of calcium chloride (not reducing the amount by 20%) to see if I could have a better balance. My alk fluctuates from about 8.4 to 9.0 DKH, but my Ca starts at 420 ppm and ends up at 370 ppm after I use about a gallon of solution (40 ml a day in a 120 gallon tank).
 
OP
OP
Randy Holmes-Farley

Randy Holmes-Farley

Reef Chemist
View Badges
Joined
Sep 5, 2014
Messages
72,100
Reaction score
69,741
Location
Massachusetts, United States
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I've always used your 2 part recipe and noticed my Ca drops after a few months of dosing, your post explains why. I just recently upped the amount of calcium chloride (not reducing the amount by 20%) to see if I could have a better balance. My alk fluctuates from about 8.4 to 9.0 DKH, but my Ca starts at 420 ppm and ends up at 370 ppm after I use about a gallon of solution (40 ml a day in a 120 gallon tank).

Yes, over long periods of time it is hard for any method to exactly balance, with water changes and a host of other minor processes messing things up.

I used limewater, which provides calcium and alkalinity in the exact ratio present in pure calcium carbonate. Over time, calcium would rise, so I chose to use a low calcium mix (normal IO) for water changes. Calcium still ran above the level in the mix, but not high enough to be any concern. :)
 

Robsk

Community Member
View Badges
Joined
Sep 16, 2017
Messages
64
Reaction score
46
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
So if I'm dosing about 50 ml of reef fusion part 2, I should probably be dosing only about 40 ml of part 1 to achieve the 1:1 ratio???

I was also curious about their warning of not dosing more than about .6 ml to 1 gallon of water per day. I know a lot of folks get to a 1ml to 1 gallon ratio or even greater with two part dosing.
 

jasonrusso

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Apr 21, 2014
Messages
3,335
Reaction score
2,455
Location
Haverhill, MA
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I actually just ordered a doser and 2 gallons of fusion A and B. I was not planning on equal dosing, rather dosing what is needed to keep parameters stable.

What do you do with dosing on a water change day? Doesn't the new salt mix replenish some of the calcium and carbonate?
 

Robsk

Community Member
View Badges
Joined
Sep 16, 2017
Messages
64
Reaction score
46
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I actually just ordered a doser and 2 gallons of fusion A and B. I was not planning on equal dosing, rather dosing what is needed to keep parameters stable.

What do you do with dosing on a water change day? Doesn't the new salt mix replenish some of the calcium and carbonate?

In my opinion, a lot of that depends on the type of salt you use. For instance, I use basic instant ocean. It has low parameters. So I always add a capful of 1 and 2 to my fresh batch of water.
 

jasonrusso

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Apr 21, 2014
Messages
3,335
Reaction score
2,455
Location
Haverhill, MA
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
In my opinion, a lot of that depends on the type of salt you use. For instance, I use basic instant ocean. It has low parameters. So I always add a capful of 1 and 2 to my fresh batch of water.
I'm currently using Foster and Smith pro salt. The Alkalinity on the box says it's 9.0. I've never tested it in the bucket.

I have a box of reef crystals that says the alk is 11.
 
OP
OP
Randy Holmes-Farley

Randy Holmes-Farley

Reef Chemist
View Badges
Joined
Sep 5, 2014
Messages
72,100
Reaction score
69,741
Location
Massachusetts, United States
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I actually just ordered a doser and 2 gallons of fusion A and B. I was not planning on equal dosing, rather dosing what is needed to keep parameters stable.

What do you do with dosing on a water change day? Doesn't the new salt mix replenish some of the calcium and carbonate?

It might, or it might deplete it, depending whether it is above or below tank values.
 
OP
OP
Randy Holmes-Farley

Randy Holmes-Farley

Reef Chemist
View Badges
Joined
Sep 5, 2014
Messages
72,100
Reaction score
69,741
Location
Massachusetts, United States
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
So if I'm dosing about 50 ml of reef fusion part 2, I should probably be dosing only about 40 ml of part 1 to achieve the 1:1 ratio???

I was also curious about their warning of not dosing more than about .6 ml to 1 gallon of water per day. I know a lot of folks get to a 1ml to 1 gallon ratio or even greater with two part dosing.

Those sort of warnings primarily apply to people not measuring the parameters or who might think is done is good, more is better.
 

Robsk

Community Member
View Badges
Joined
Sep 16, 2017
Messages
64
Reaction score
46
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Those sort of warnings primarily apply to people not measuring the parameters or who might think is done is good, more is better.

I wondered if the warning had something to do with the added trace elements, but what you are saying makes sense. Unfortunately, I'm that guy that doesn't measure much so the warnings were interesting to me.
 

Reef Jeff

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 27, 2017
Messages
214
Reaction score
220
Location
NorthCentral PA
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
@Randy Holmes-Farley
Question: I have never had a tank where a balanced additive worked over the long term without becoming unbalanced. Each tank required different levels of each to stay in balance. This makes sense to me since every tank is different. I stopped using balanced additives a long time ago as a result. Now I test for each component and supplement each independently to maintain balanced levels. Am I missing something here?

One other question: I have never been a fan of SeaChem products for a number of reasons (i.e., diatom blooms after using their buffers, test kits not testing correctly, etc). Recently I wanted to test for Iodine/Iodide/Iodate. A SeaChem dealer sold me the Seachem Iodide/Iodine test kit. It tested zero on my tank. I mixed up some SeaChem salt and it tested .06 ppm on that salt. As soon as I added that salt to my tank, it tested zero again. I then used the Red Sea Iodine test kit and it tested in at .06 ppm. I then mixed another batch of Seachem salt and it tested at .06 with the red sea kit. My guess is the Red Sea kit also tests for Iodate, whereas the SeaChem does not? If so then the Seachem salt immediately changes to Iodate in my tank which it cannot detect. Does this sound like what may be happening?
 
Last edited:

jasonrusso

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Apr 21, 2014
Messages
3,335
Reaction score
2,455
Location
Haverhill, MA
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
So the seachem calcium says it contains Mag. I assume that this is to keep the magnesium balance. So actually it is 3 part?

I have actually used 2 bottles of red sea alk and calcium but have yet to use any mag. Is this because of my water changes?
 

jasonrusso

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Apr 21, 2014
Messages
3,335
Reaction score
2,455
Location
Haverhill, MA
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
To anyone that is dosing Reef Fusion, do you stir the solution? The instructions say to shake well, so I would think that after time it would begin to settle and separate. Wouldn't this cause uneven dosing?
 
OP
OP
Randy Holmes-Farley

Randy Holmes-Farley

Reef Chemist
View Badges
Joined
Sep 5, 2014
Messages
72,100
Reaction score
69,741
Location
Massachusetts, United States
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
@Randy Holmes-Farley
Question: I have never had a tank where a balanced additive worked over the long term without becoming unbalanced. Each tank required different levels of each to stay in balance. This makes sense to me since every tank is different.

It doesn't really make sense, with a few exceptions, because the ways that tanks are different do not impact the components of calcium carbonate.

The big factor is water changes with a salt mix not matching the tank messing with the demand ratio.

How often do you hear CaCO3/Co2 reactor folks complaining of imbalanced demand issue? Limewater users? Almost never. Why not? Because demand doesn't really vary the way some two part users claim it does. :D

On the Seachem kit, it may not detect iodate, that that might explain the different results, but test error may also be the explanation.
 

HAVE YOU EVER KEPT A RARE/UNCOMMON FISH, CORAL, OR INVERT? SHOW IT OFF IN THE THREAD!

  • Yes!

    Votes: 32 45.7%
  • Not yet, but I have one that I want to buy in mind!

    Votes: 9 12.9%
  • No.

    Votes: 26 37.1%
  • Other (please explain).

    Votes: 3 4.3%
Back
Top