Scooter Blenny not eating after 3 days in copper

[KoalaHunter]

To say upfront the blenny is now in water with 0ppm copper. 2 different LFS recommended copper treatment in QT due to velvet in DT and I regrettably followed their advice.

Current issue - Scooter blenny is not eating and does not look well. Heavy breathing, barely moving (see picture and video). I had to move him into a quarantine tank after velvet wiped out all other fish over Christmas and I was away. Below is a summary of what has happened since removing him from the DT (100 litres). When I feed, I turn all pumps off for 15 mins and siphon out any uneaten food before turning pumps on. He regularly ate mysis and brine before the move to QT.

Day 0 - taken from DT and place into QT. Left for 24 hours with no treatment, eating fine. Behaving as normal, no visible symptoms of velvet or anything else I could notice that was not normal for him. Salinity 33ppm (slightly lower so any evaporation won't push salinity too high). Decided to put into QT to allow DT to go fallow for 90 days (only inverts - shrimp, starfish, crabs, snails).
Day 1 - add copper to 0.2ppm. Blenny eating fine (mysis).
Day 2 - 20% water change, dose copper to 0.2ppm. Blenny eating fine (mysis).
Day 3 - Blenny won't eat (mysis). Looks lethargic. (Blenny has not eaten since this point and does not move 99% of the time. Showing heavy breathing.)
Day 4 - Discover Scooter Blennies respond badly to copper treatment. Do 75% water change and add activated carbon (in an attempt to absorb any residual copper). Blenny won't eat (mysis or brine).
Day 5 - 25% water change. Copper 0ppm. Blenny won't eat (mysis or brine).
Day 6 and 7 - check copper both days - 0ppm. Ammonia is tolerable both days. Blenny won't eat (mysis or brine) and barely moves.
Day 7 - I harvested a load of copepods and tried to target feed - no reaction. Put the remaining copepods in the tank just in case.
Day 8 (today) - Do a 50% water change. Copper 0ppm. Ammonia is tolerable. Blenny's head looks noticeably different (see photos). Lighter coloured skin and darker eyes than normal. He's also looking much thinner.

Questions -

Is there something I haven't considered that could be causing the blenny problems in the current set up.
Based on how he is looking, and the fact he hasn't eaten for 6 days now, what are his chances of recovery?
Now that copper is out of the tank, should I try to cycle it with the Blenny in there, or stick to regular ammonia testing and water changes.
Anything else that you can think of that may be helpful to his recovery.

Thanks for reading.

 

[vetteguy53081]

To say upfront the blenny is now in water with 0ppm copper. 2 different LFS recommended copper treatment in QT due to velvet in DT and I regrettably followed their advice.

Current issue - Scooter blenny is not eating and does not look well. Heavy breathing, barely moving (see picture and video). I had to move him into a quarantine tank after velvet wiped out all other fish over Christmas and I was away. Below is a summary of what has happened since removing him from the DT (100 litres). When I feed, I turn all pumps off for 15 mins and siphon out any uneaten food before turning pumps on. He regularly ate mysis and brine before the move to QT.

Day 0 - taken from DT and place into QT. Left for 24 hours with no treatment, eating fine. Behaving as normal, no visible symptoms of velvet or anything else I could notice that was not normal for him. Salinity 33ppm (slightly lower so any evaporation won't push salinity too high). Decided to put into QT to allow DT to go fallow for 90 days (only inverts - shrimp, starfish, crabs, snails).
Day 1 - add copper to 0.2ppm. Blenny eating fine (mysis).
Day 2 - 20% water change, dose copper to 0.2ppm. Blenny eating fine (mysis).
Day 3 - Blenny won't eat (mysis). Looks lethargic. (Blenny has not eaten since this point and does not move 99% of the time. Showing heavy breathing.)
Day 4 - Discover Scooter Blennies respond badly to copper treatment. Do 75% water change and add activated carbon (in an attempt to absorb any residual copper). Blenny won't eat (mysis or brine).
Day 5 - 25% water change. Copper 0ppm. Blenny won't eat (mysis or brine).
Day 6 and 7 - check copper both days - 0ppm. Ammonia is tolerable both days. Blenny won't eat (mysis or brine) and barely moves.
Day 7 - I harvested a load of copepods and tried to target feed - no reaction. Put the remaining copepods in the tank just in case.
Day 8 (today) - Do a 50% water change. Copper 0ppm. Ammonia is tolerable. Blenny's head looks noticeably different (see photos). Lighter coloured skin and darker eyes than normal. He's also looking much thinner.

Questions -

Is there something I haven't considered that could be causing the blenny problems in the current set up.
Based on how he is looking, and the fact he hasn't eaten for 6 days now, what are his chances of recovery?
Now that copper is out of the tank, should I try to cycle it with the Blenny in there, or stick to regular ammonia testing and water changes.
Anything else that you can think of that may be helpful to his recovery.

Thanks for reading.

These guys do not do well in copper and rarely get velvet. What were the symptoms that led you to velvet ?
Better would have been ruby rally pro which has less impact on them as well as mandarin gobies and some eels.

 

[KoalaHunter]

These guys do not do well in copper and rarely get velvet. What were the symptoms that led you to velvet ?
Better would have been ruby rally pro which has less impact on them as well as mandarin gobies and some eels.

I have attached a photo of one of my clown's I took on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day. I went from having 9 fish to 1 fish in the space of ten days or so. The scooter blenny was the only survivor.

The main purpose of removing the blenny from the DT was to go fishless for 90 days in an attempt to let the velvet die out with no hosts. LFS recommended copper as a precaution. I now know not to do that.

The scooter blenny may or may not have velvet at this current time, but I am almost certain it was velvet that wiped out my other 8 fish.
Royal Gramma was constantly hiding and not eating for a few days before I found it dead. No alarms were set at this point because I thought the clowns may have bullied it.
Mandarin died with discoloured (pale) patches on it. Was advised by LFS it could have been bullied by the scooter blenny and out competed for food.
Coral beauty had no change in behaviour or eating and then was found dead the following morning. No markings or anything on the body. This was Christmas Eve, then started to notice other fish weren't looking so good.
Foxface, two clowns, and a bangaii cardinal died whilst I was away over the holidays (A friend removed the bodies and was feeding the remaining fish). The last bangaii cardinal died after I got back but before I could set up a QT.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I have attached a photo of one of my clown's I took on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day. I went from having 9 fish to 1 fish in the space of ten days or so. The scooter blenny was the only survivor.

The main purpose of removing the blenny from the DT was to go fishless for 90 days in an attempt to let the velvet die out with no hosts. LFS recommended copper as a precaution. I now know not to do that.

The scooter blenny may or may not have velvet at this current time, but I am almost certain it was velvet that wiped out my other 8 fish.
Royal Gramma was constantly hiding and not eating for a few days before I found it dead. No alarms were set at this point because I thought the clowns may have bullied it.
Mandarin died with discoloured (pale) patches on it. Was advised by LFS it could have been bullied by the scooter blenny and out competed for food.
Coral beauty had no change in behaviour or eating and then was found dead the following morning. No markings or anything on the body. This was Christmas Eve, then started to notice other fish weren't looking so good.
Foxface, two clowns, and a bangaii cardinal died whilst I was away over the holidays (A friend removed the bodies and was feeding the remaining fish). The last bangaii cardinal died after I got back but before I could set up a QT.

You may be treating for wrong issue. The clown shows brooklynella and Not Velvet which may be the issue with others. The heavy presence of mucus suggests brooklynella which commonly affects clowns especially wild caught versions. If I see correctly- the other fish has secondary infections which stem from long term brook.
The most significant sign is the amount of slime on its body. The thick mucus on its body is a second sign which is noticeable on the fish. This mucus generally starts at the facial area as well as gills and spreads across the body producing lesions as it progresses often confused with ich and can turn into secondary bacteria. Other symptoms will be lethargic behavior, refusing to eat and heavy breathing from the mucus.
Typical treatment is a formalin solution is mixed with in a separate container with either fresh or saltwater. Start with a quick dip in the formalin at a higher concentration then performing treatment in a prolonged bath of formalin base at a lower concentration in a quarantine tank. The longer the fish are exposed to the formalin treatment the more effective it will be at eliminating this issue.
If a formalin solution is not available for immediate use, temporary relief can be achieved by giving the fish a FW bath or dip in water same temperature as display tank. Even though this treatment will not cure the disease, it can help to remove some of the parasites, as well as reduce the amount of mucus in the gills to assist with respiration problems.
Treatment is best done in a QT tank using either quick cure (more effective) or Ruby Rally Pro. Ruby takes a little longer and initial treatment generally takes 2-3 days to really start going to work.
With the advanced stage of this- I recommend immediate quarantine of all inhabitants and leaving display without fish for 4-6 weeks.
A quarantine system if you dont have one can be as simple as a starter tank kit from walmart which has most of the essentials

 

[Cthulukelele]

Yeah copper treatment is pretty darn rough on dragonets from what I hear

 

[KoalaHunter]

You may be treating for wrong issue. The clown shows brooklynella and Not Velvet which may be the issue with others. The heavy presence of mucus suggests brooklynella which commonly affects clowns especially wild caught versions. If I see correctly- the other fish has secondary infections which stem from long term brook.
The most significant sign is the amount of slime on its body. The thick mucus on its body is a second sign which is noticeable on the fish. This mucus generally starts at the facial area as well as gills and spreads across the body producing lesions as it progresses often confused with ich and can turn into secondary bacteria. Other symptoms will be lethargic behavior, refusing to eat and heavy breathing from the mucus.
Typical treatment is a formalin solution is mixed with in a separate container with either fresh or saltwater. Start with a quick dip in the formalin at a higher concentration then performing treatment in a prolonged bath of formalin base at a lower concentration in a quarantine tank. The longer the fish are exposed to the formalin treatment the more effective it will be at eliminating this issue.
If a formalin solution is not available for immediate use, temporary relief can be achieved by giving the fish a FW bath or dip in water same temperature as display tank. Even though this treatment will not cure the disease, it can help to remove some of the parasites, as well as reduce the amount of mucus in the gills to assist with respiration problems.
Treatment is best done in a QT tank using either quick cure (more effective) or Ruby Rally Pro. Ruby takes a little longer and initial treatment generally takes 2-3 days to really start going to work.
With the advanced stage of this- I recommend immediate quarantine of all inhabitants and leaving display without fish for 4-6 weeks.
A quarantine system if you dont have one can be as simple as a starter tank kit from walmart which has most of the essentials

Thank you for the advice.

The scooter blenny is the only surviving fish and has been in a QT for 8 days now. I thought copper was the cause of his change in behaviour, but it sounds like you're suggesting that brooklynella has taken hold of the scooter blenny and that is the cause of the beavhoiur changes (not eating, heavy breathing etc).

I assume that quick cure and Ruby Rally Pro are both formalin products?

Based on the photos/video of the scooter blenny (in my original post), can you see brooklynella on him?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Thank you for the advice.

The scooter blenny is the only surviving fish and has been in a QT for 8 days now. I thought copper was the cause of his change in behaviour, but it sounds like you're suggesting that brooklynella has taken hold of the scooter blenny and that is the cause of the beavhoiur changes (not eating, heavy breathing etc).

I assume that quick cure and Ruby Rally Pro are both formalin products?

Based on the photos/video of the scooter blenny (in my original post), can you see brooklynella on him?

Not really on scooter but the pic of the clown

 

[KoalaHunter]

I bought formalin and dosed the QT about 16 hours ago.
The dose I gave was slightly less than what was recommended by Humble Fish here: https://humble.fish/community/index.php?threads/formalin.19/
Based on water volume I should have dosed 2.5ml of formalin, but given how much the blenny is struggling I opted to go for a slightly above half dose (recommended by HF for struggling fish).

I have attached two videos on the blenny now at different angles - worse - His mouth looks to be rotting. His heavy breathing is sometimes interrupted by twitching.

Looking for advice on whether to continue with formalin, or whether there is a secondary bacterial infection (as there was noticeable with the cardinals) and should treat for that alongside or instead of formalin.

Or, the least preferred option, put him out of his misery if there is no chance of recovery.

 

[KoalaHunter]

No need to respond, he died 20 minutes after I made this post

 

[Spare time]

These guys do not do well in copper and rarely get velvet. What were the symptoms that led you to velvet ?
Better would have been ruby rally pro which has less impact on them as well as mandarin gobies and some eels.

They are fine in copper (power). I've witnessed dozens of them in there, eating frozen and doing fine

 

[vetteguy53081]

They are fine in copper (power). I've witnessed dozens of them in there, eating frozen and doing fine

.2 suggests chelated copper was used and never reached therapeutic levels and rare that the food source (pods ) survive it either. If CopperPower - should be 2.0 to be safe. Over the last 3 decades ive seen many of them fall to copper poisoning especially mandarins.

 

[vetteguy53081]

They are fine in copper (power). I've witnessed dozens of them in there, eating frozen and doing fine

Scooter Blenny (Synchiropus ocellatus): Ultimate Care Guide - Fish Laboratory

Scooter Blenny (Synchiropus ocellatus), despite the name, is not a true blenny. A member of the Dragonet group, this fish originates in the Indo-Pacific from

www.fishlaboratory.com

Scooter Blennys are resistant to some parasites and common diseases like ich. However they are sensitive to many medications, including copper, so can be difficult to treat when they do get sick. Make sure you have a quarantine tank (QT) ready for any infected Scooters. Because they are so sensitive to copper this can’t be a QT where copper based medicine has been used.