Sand sifting star help

[yanni]

Looking at purchasing a sand sifting star for my 20g Waterbox. Tank is 3months old, used live rock. Sand seems to be teeming with pods and miscellaneous fauna, would it be a bad decision to add?

would be happy to dose pods and phyto regularly to keep a supply for it, and target feed it mysis to keep it alive since I already have to target feed the lawnmower blenny.

would this be a feasible solution, or should I just pass on the dream and stay with a brittle star?

 

[Bucs20fan]

Sand sifters are easy to care for, right next to serpent stars. Just be aware that sand sifters can hunt your snails if they choose to. If you are worried about it not getting enough food, just feed it a small piece of shrimp or something once a week.

 

[yanni]

Sand sifters are easy to care for, right next to serpent stars. Just be aware that sand sifters can hunt your snails if they choose to. If you are worried about it not getting enough food, just feed it a small piece of shrimp or something once a week.

Yeah I figured if I got a small one, it would be okay with supplemental feedings. It should work, I just don’t want to place my starfish at risk of dying or starving

 

[Bucs20fan]

Personally I would wait till the 6 month period. Not that it cannot be done at 3 months, but if you do a little reading up on them im sure youll be just fine. Its all about knowing what youre getting into, and at least with this particular critter, there really isnt much, in most cases people just plop em in and let the star do its thing. I have both, one sand sifter about 4 inches wide, and a large serpent probably 5 inches or so wide. The only one I feed is the serpent, and thats just because it comes out more often.

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

in most cases people just plop em in and let the star do its thing.

I've heard that most sand-sifters starve in our tanks after a few (~8-13 on average) months even in larger tanks with deeper/older sandbeds. A lot of people recommend against getting sand sifters (or pretty much any true starfish) as a result because you generally just watch them slowly starve to death, and most people don't realize anything is wrong until the star starts basically falling apart.

I'd try something like clam, oyster, etc. and/or snail meat (you can find various frozen/live marine snails to try online, including conch meat, periwinkle snails, babylonian snails, etc.)

The quote below is specifically geared toward Astropecten spp. (predatory) sand sifting stars, but there is another genus of sand sifting stars called Archaster that is thought (importantly the diet was inferred, not studied in the research that this diet was pulled from) to be detritivorous (specifically, they are thought to be microphagous detritivores). I have heard but cannot confirm that Archaster spp. misidentified as Astropecten spp. may be more common in the hobby than actual Astropecten spp. are.

So, with this in mind:
- If your star is detritivorous (which may be a very big if), then you would likely want smaller foods than the suggested below (which is designed for predatory sand sifters). In this case, I'd suggest trying to mix something like TDO Chroma Boost into the sand for your stars to find.
- If your star is predatory (which may to our limited knowledge be possible at this point even if it is an Archaster sp.), then the below advice (and my advice above) is more likely to be useful.
- If your star is actually primarily a biofilm eater like Linckia spp. Protoreaster nodosus, etc. (which may also to our limited knowledge be possible for an Archaster sp.), then it's likely to die regardless of what you do or don't feed it at this point.

I’ve heard they climb the glass when they’re looking for food and can’t find any in the sand bed.

Generally, people recommend large tanks and waiting until your tank is established before trying these (or pretty much any) sea stars, and the star survives on detritus in the tank. Unfortunately, even in a lot of these tanks, after they finish clearing the detritus from the sand, they typically starve.

My current advice to avoid the star staving - which may or may not help, I genuinely don't know at this point (it could take someone months to years of testing it to find out for certain, as sea stars can last months without food):
Target feed the star things like clam on half shell, oyster, mussel, scallop, etc. (bivalves); snail, whelk, conch, etc. (sea snail gastropods); and a good quality omnivore food (like LRS Reef Frenzy or Fertility Frenzy). These are - according to the best sources of information I can find - the sorts of foods sand sifting stars consume in the wild, and the star should swallow these foods whole if they aren't too big - you might need to experiment a bit with the size of the pieces offered to get it sized just right, but generally I'd say err on the smaller side.

If you decide to give it a shot, let me know how it goes, and keep me updated on the long term survival of the star!

 

[Bucs20fan]

I've heard that most sand-sifters starve in our tanks after a few (~8-13 on average) months even in larger tanks with deeper/older sandbeds. A lot of people recommend against getting sand sifters (or pretty much any true starfish) as a result because you generally just watch them slowly starve to death, and most people don't realize anything is wrong until the star starts basically falling apart.

That may be the case, but mine have been going strong for close to a year now. I feed heavy once a week for them and only target feed the large serpent and all has been going well for me. Good info regardless, starfish, besides asterinas and brittles are always unique.

 

[Stomatopods17]

Quick rundown;

Its usually the fromias that are a pain normally. There's no way to feed them AFAIK, they eat film algae we can't reproduce manually so its just chance after awhile of running a tank.

Linkias are really fragile and prone to parasites, there's usually a way to feed them even if sponges seem to be the primary, you have to reach out to some experts that dedicated the time figuring out different foods but it is doable.

Sand sifters are kinda the horseshoe crab scenario. You might hear a few success stories but its so minimal/scarce its not worth trying especially when tiger conches can do the same thing for our sand bed without issue. There's a lot of debate what they eat but its supposedly the micro-organisms in the sand, which is harder for us to manually feed. Starvation speed can vary too, it really depends on the food source and we can't see/measure only guess. In general not recommended unless very large tanks (like, few year old 75 gallon would be my personal starting point for them.)

Serpent starfish IMO are amazing and very easy to work with, they don't hurt anything, just scavenge what you feed the tank, and its fun seeing them look lifeless in a corner, drop some mysis in, and its like black friday all of a sudden to them flopping around. They're very octopus-like.

Brittles are cool too but you have to research which ones can eat fish. Green ones get humongus and have been known to kill sleeping animals, I don't know how big any of the other brittles are as I never researched them.

All the other stars I can think of either I rarely see/have 0 knowledge on (tile stars, double stars, etc), are death mops (protocaster i think its called? chocolates/knobbies/biscuits etc), or asterina which very very few will eat coral but all of them outbreak. Also cold water species we occasionally get like bat starfish, not sure how we get those but I see them a lot.

EDIT: and to be on the safe side.... don't look at crinoids (feather stars), that's just way too advanced even for the experts and I only know like 2 people that actually managed to keep them. One has a thread here and the amount of work put in as inspiring as it is proved how wrong it is to sell them.

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

Quick rundown;

Its usually the fromias that are a pain normally. There's no way to feed them AFAIK, they eat film algae we can't reproduce manually so its just chance after awhile of running a tank.

Linkias are really fragile and prone to parasites, there's usually a way to feed them even if sponges seem to be the primary, you have to reach out to some experts that dedicated the time figuring out different foods but it is doable.

Sand sifters are kinda the horseshoe crab scenario. You might hear a few success stories but its so minimal/scarce its not worth trying especially when tiger conches can do the same thing for our sand bed without issue. There's a lot of debate what they eat but its supposedly the micro-organisms in the sand, which is harder for us to manually feed. Starvation speed can vary too, it really depends on the food source and we can't see/measure only guess. In general not recommended unless very large tanks (like, few year old 75 gallon would be my personal starting point for them.)

Serpent starfish IMO are amazing and very easy to work with, they don't hurt anything, just scavenge what you feed the tank, and its fun seeing them look lifeless in a corner, drop some mysis in, and its like black friday all of a sudden to them flopping around. They're very octopus-like.

Brittles are cool too but you have to research which ones can eat fish. Green ones get humongus and have been known to kill sleeping animals, I don't know how big any of the other brittles are as I never researched them.

All the other stars I can think of either I rarely see/have 0 knowledge on (tile stars, double stars, etc), are death mops (protocaster i think its called? chocolates/knobbies/biscuits etc), or asterina which very very few will eat coral but all of them outbreak. Also cold water species we occasionally get like bat starfish, not sure how we get those but I see them a lot.

Fromias, Linckias, Double Stars (Iconaster longimanus), and Protoreaster nodosus are biofilm eaters (biofilms are typically a mix of bacteria, cyanobacteria, diatoms, microalgae, fungi, etc.), though Protoreaster nodosus (the Chocolate Chip Starfish) is known to eat corals and such in our tanks (this is thought to largely be a response to the lack of its preferred food source, which is biofilm found on seagrasses and macroalgae). Many of these biofilm eating species are known to eat sponges as well (sponges often contain a lot of the same microorganisms as biofilms, so that's not too surprising), but their long-term survival in our aquariums seems to be almost entirely the luck of the draw (even in large tanks).

Most common name Biscuit Star species are thought to eat sessile organisms (sponge, tunicate, bryozoans, etc.) and algae (see the quote below). A handful of other star species are somewhat commonly available in the hobby, but they're generally either more biofilm eaters (like Nardoa spp., Neoferdinia spp., etc.) or predatory stars (such as Luidia spp., Echinaster spp., Nidorellia armata, etc.). Some of the sponge eating species could potentially be good candidates, but (as described in the quote below) they come with some of their own unique challenges as well. The predatory species are easy enough to keep if you know what to feed them (which is why some coldwater species, like the sunflower star, have actually been aquacultured successfully and kept long-term in tanks without issue).

Serpent and Brittle Stars (which are Ophiuroids, not Asteroids like true starfish) generally do very well in our tanks, and almost all of them (at least of the ones available in the hobby) are reef-safe - the large, green serpent/brittle star, Ophiarachna incrassata, is the exception, as it is known to hunt and prey on fish.

Brittle/Serpent stars and "Asterina" (actually Aquilonastra - Asterina is a different genus in the family Asterinidae) stars are basically the only (mostly) reef-safe, tropical "stars" that the average hobbyist can keep with long-term success at this point.

The quote mentioned above:

Well, normally I’d say the common name of Biscuit Sea Star is used for a number of different species, and knowing which one you’re asking about specifically would be helpful, but there’s actually some pretty good info available for most of the different species it could be in this case, and they seem to all have similar needs - so I’ll skip that common name bit this time.

It looks like they prefer areas with lots of rock and rubble (intertidal zones, rocky reefs, rocky shores, etc.), and they seem* to feed on algae, sponges and other filter feeders (like tunicates), bryozoans, and “encrusting animals” - whatever that actually means.
*with starfish, seeming to eat something does not necessarily mean they’re actually eating it or getting nutrients from it, just to clarify.

Having done some extensive study on different starfish (and a limited number of sponges), this starfish actually seems to be a relatively good aquarium candidate at the moment when compared to other starfish. However, that doesn’t make it an actually good candidate overall when looking at keeping it long term (i.e. for ~2+ years) - at least not yet. You’d need to figure out a solid diet for it first. This is a problem for a number of reasons.

For one thing, figuring out which sponges it’ll actually eat may be tricky, as a number of different sponges produce chemicals specifically to try and drive predators (like this starfish) away, and you’d want to grow the sponges it will eat yourself so you can be sure you’re able to keep it fed. Beyond that, it might need more variety than just a sponge species or two to keep it healthy, so you’d probably want to figure out what tunicates and other things it’ll eat too - and you likely need to grow those out yourself as well. Plus, as mentioned above, keeping nutrients in hand while keeping all of these things alive could prove quite challenging (though this is easier with larger tanks).

Assuming you’re up for trying though, I’d recommend starting with a handful of different sponges - photosynthetic plating sponges, ball sponges, tree sponges, Haliclona sponges, crumb of bread sponges, chicken liver sponges, etc. are a few you could try - and seeing how you do with them first, then add the starfish. If it eats any of those, make a note of it and see what else it eats. If not, find something else to offer it and try that until you get it eating. Once you’ve got something you feel confident it is eating growing, you can keep offering it new things to try and expand its diet (and I’d recommend doing so), but, most importantly, you’d want to see how it does long term. Track how long it lives on the diet you’re feeding it, and if it makes it to two years or more, let us all know.

 

[yanni]

Update all!! Thanks for all the info! I did read it all, and really appreciate it

I picked up a small one, about an inch wide, super cool critter. He seems to levitate across sand, constantly picking, disappearing below the sand and reappearing 15cm away.

A success, I spot fed it some mysis, and it gobbled it up, so I think with a bit of TLC I should be able to keep it easily, and if I suspect it is starving, will relocate to a friends tank. For the meantime, I believe I should relocate my brittle star. the two of them may be overkill together, slightly irresponsible, I know, but I’m going to get them both happy homes

 

[jhadaway]

Update all!! Thanks for all the info! I did read it all, and really appreciate it

I picked up a small one, about an inch wide, super cool critter. He seems to levitate across sand, constantly picking, disappearing below the sand and reappearing 15cm away.

A success, I spot fed it some mysis, and it gobbled it up, so I think with a bit of TLC I should be able to keep it easily, and if I suspect it is starving, will relocate to a friends tank. For the meantime, I believe I should relocate my brittle star. the two of them may be overkill together, slightly irresponsible, I know, but I’m going to get them both happy homes

Maybe vitamin soak the mysis? Keep the updates coming. I'm thinking about adding one myself in the next round.

 

[yanni]

Maybe vitamin soak the mysis? Keep the updates coming. I'm thinking about adding one myself in the next round.

What vitamins would you suggest? I’ll update this thread as I get updates!

 

[jhadaway]

I use Boyd Vitachem for my fish. I don't know if it would help but I would guess someone on the site will know. I soak my fish food mix with 3-4 drops of vitamins. Good Luck!

 

[fodsod]

I love sand sifting stars. I haven't been able to keep one alive past the 2 year mark for some reason. They look good, move around a lot but never seem to live very long. The last one I had lasted the longest. He lost a leg climbing on a powerhead, survived that and lived another year or so. Then just disappeared. They disintegrate pretty fast when they die so one day you see them, then they're gone.

Good luck with yours OP. They are super cool to have in your tank. Everyone that saw mine were fascinated.

 

[yanni]

I use Boyd Vitachem for my fish. I don't know if it would help but I would guess someone on the site will know. I soak my fish food mix with 3-4 drops of vitamins. Good Luck!

Will have to keep an eye out. Thanks mate!! Might be good for the clowns and blenny as well

 

[yanni]

I love sand sifting stars. I haven't been able to keep one alive past the 2 year mark for some reason. They look good, move around a lot but never seem to live very long. The last one I had lasted the longest. He lost a leg climbing on a powerhead, survived that and lived another year or so. Then just disappeared. They disintegrate pretty fast when they die so one day you see them, then they're gone.

Good luck with yours OP. They are super cool to have in your tank. Everyone that saw mine were fascinated.

Yea I’ve seemed to hear that a lot which sucks. Sorry to hear about yours though, poor thing. They’re pretty resilient, I wonder ultimately what causes the melt of them.

My gf absolutely loves him so far. Watching him levitate around the tank, climbing over obstacles. He’s currently somewhere within the sand, but when we was out, so fascinating. I have an obsession with inverts, as one could tell by my abalone, starfish, micro stars, pods, snails, nems and these unique west Aussie RFAs. Now on the hunt for cowries haha

attached a pic of my west Aussie RFAs. Pretty unique and cool looking

 

[fodsod]

Yea I’ve seemed to hear that a lot which sucks. Sorry to hear about yours though, poor thing. They’re pretty resilient, I wonder ultimately what causes the melt of them.

My gf absolutely loves him so far. Watching him levitate around the tank, climbing over obstacles. He’s currently somewhere within the sand, but when we was out, so fascinating. I have an obsession with inverts, as one could tell by my abalone, starfish, micro stars, pods, snails, nems and these unique west Aussie RFAs. Now on the hunt for cowries haha

attached a pic of my west Aussie RFAs. Pretty unique and cool looking

My wife used to occasionally flip our SS over on his back just to watch him flip himself back over. She's such a kid sometimes. LOL.

Great pics!