OP
OP
I’ve got a sepereate tank and yes I have been doing water changes, just bought some turbo snails. Put in matrix purigen and clear blue czrnon
ruby rally pro
- Thread starter cdemoss01
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I'd get the CB in the other tank and then take a photo for us so we can get a good diagnosis. He's gonna have to come out for treatment preferably.
cdnco2004
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Not sure what packaging your looking at Ruby Reef Pro is very DT safe thats one of the points they advertise it based on. I have used it as a Bath, in tank QT treatments, and in DT treatments. Have a lot of history of its use at Humble fish.
OP
OP
Im basically going to setup my AIO 15 gallon dose ruby rally with the cb get pictures before dosage for diagnosis. After ruby rally has disipated and CB is better the AIO will be my nano reef.
cdnco2004
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I just went back and looked at the bottle again because I knew you were wrong, and it says its designed to be used in the display tank. And you are completely wrong regarding its effectiveness with bacterial infections and Urenoma. Go to the Humble Fish forum and look up Rally Pro. We have proven its effectiveness in all of these treatments. I have verified eDNA test results from before and after treatments for Urenoma. I have treated numerous Athina's and Chromis with active outbreaks with the red lesions that most people say is untreatable and fatal and they survived and are still living to this day. I have used it successfully to treat many different bacterial infections.
I use Rally Pro on every fish I get before it goes into QT. I do a 90min bath of 3ML per 1 Gallon of water.
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Jay Hemdal
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The problem is that the reason it can be dosed in a display tank is the the level of ingredients (specifically the acriflavine and formalin) are well below published concentrations in the literature to treat various diseases. Same thing another way - you can dose copper in your reef tank at 0.05 ppm, but it won’t cure any diseases since the treatment level is 2.25 ppm.It flat out says on the bottle it is "... designed to be used directly in the display tank..."
I suggest Ruby Reef here only because formalin is difficult for home aquarists to source, and formalin is dangerous to use in homes….not because Ruby Reef works really well.
It won’t work against intracellular Uronema, I imagine you had a misdiagnosed case, probably bacterial.
Jay
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MnFish1
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I'm going to point you to this thread. There seems to be a lot of confusion about these products. https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ruby-rally-pro-dosing.963480/It flat out says on the bottle it is "... designed to be used directly in the display tank..."
Having said that - I probably mis-remembered the instructions on one of the products - (or both) - I would not use the product in a display. It's my opinion. If I misquoted the recommendations from the company I apologize. BTW - i.e. - I wouldn't EVER dose a medication in a display tank - no matter what the label says, and secondly every reefer IMHO - before they buy a tank and fish and/or coral should have the ability to have a hospital tank. If one cannot afford that - or the space to do it, etc - perhaps this is not a great hobby to be in. And - BTW - I don't say that lightly - since it's best for as many people to be in the hobby as possible. Additionally if someone asked me personally, if I was treating a disease - I would use Ruby Rally Pro in a hospital tank 99.99 times out of a hundred (as compared to a display).
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MnFish1
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So - if you want - go back through R2R - and look at all of the products that claim to do xxx - and the research suggests it does not. I'm not saying this is a bad product - in fact - I have recommended it when people want to use something in a display multiple times. I would not do it. I would use a hospital tank - for many reasons. I'm going to stand by that comment - and I believe that I read it somewhere on one of the products. If I'm wrong. I'm wrong - but- still I would not personally use it in a display unless an emergency.It flat out says on the bottle it is "... designed to be used directly in the display tank..."
MnFish1
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I just want back and looked at the website - which is where I saw the recommendation (the bolding is mine):
"While disease treatment in a quarantine tank is always recommended, sometimes it may not be practical to catch a fish for treatment in a separate tank. Rally Pro can be safely dosed in the display aquarium if necessary. Always observe tank inhabitants carefully when treating, and be prepared to perform a water change and add fresh activated carbon if necessary."
So - I guess I interpret this as 'Use Ruby Rally Pro in a quarantine tank'. If you have to you can use in a display tank 'if necessary'. But - be prepared with new water and carbon. I can only assume that this means a problem with the medication in the tank (though they could mean ammonia, etc - IDK)'.
OP
OP
Thank you all
cdnco2004
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My issues were confirmed not only by eDNA tests but by Humble as well from skin scrapings. For Urenoma I did not treat in DT. All the fish were pulled from tank as I had Velvet at the same time also confirmed and I only lost 1 fish out of my entire 220g becuase I had been using Rally Pro in the tank thinking I had flukes. After confirmation of both Urenoma and Velvet all fish were pulled from the tank and went through 30 days of coper. The Athina's and Chromis were given Rally Pro baths every day for 3 days at 3ML per gallon for 90 minutes then 1 day off. Did 4 cycles of this for a total of 12 days of Rally Pro baths. All the other fish in the tank were treated with formalin baths daily for 10 days. The tank it self (FOWLR no Coral) was treated with formalin for 10 days during its 45 day fallow period. All the inverts were pulled from the tank and placed in their own QT tank. But all of the Athinas and Chromis got the rally pro baths not formalin. The ones with active red lesions all healed during their time in QT only treated with Rally Pro. After 30 days the QT tanks with fish were drained and sterilized then fish returned to the QT's for two weeks while the tank completed its fallow period. After 45 days all fish and inverts were returned to the tank. 2 new eDNA test was performed after they were back in the DT for 2 weeks and at 6 weeks. Both tests results came back negative for both Velvet and urenoma. After the success I had we had multiple other people tray out Rally Pro as a treatment and got success.
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cdnco2004
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Since that time I personally have used Rally Pro for a few different bacterial infections. All of the infections cleared up after RP treatment. Have had many other people also use RP in their DT's with success. Its now one of the go to meds recommended on Humble not just as a solo treatment but also as a medication which can be rapidly acquired as most LFS stock it and Amazon can do next day delivery of it for outbreaks that don't respond as well only treated by RP it has been shown to help the fish stabilize while other more effective medications can be acquired.
Jay Hemdal
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Uronema shows up in eDNA tests all the time, because there are two “forms”; the falcultative intercellular parasite and the free living form that feeds on bacteria. The latter causes no disease issues. In fact, up to 75% of long term established tanks will have Uronema in them.
The reason that topical treatments don’t work on Uronema, is the drug never reaches the protozoan. The red lesions that you see is just the tip of the iceberg, you only see that after the infection has been raging in the fish’s muscle tissue for some time.
In theory, oral anti-protozoal drugs would work against intra cellular Uronema, but since one early symptom of this disease is that the fish stops eating, it is tough to do that.
Seahorses and seadragons develop another type of Uronema infection, that starts on the outside of the fish and works inwards. I’ve been able to treat that with formalin baths.
MnFish1
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Well - it's also one of the 'go to' methods here for use in a display tank. Ruby Rally Pro is recommended quite a bit. however, IMHO, the best low risk way to treat almost any disease is in a hospital tank, as compared to a display tank.
MnFish1
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The eDNA tests IMHO - do not confirm anything. If you sampled the wrong area - you will not see uronema, etc. There is no real verifiable reliability to the eDNA test - except if it is positive - its probably pretty sure that it's there. However, whether it's there or not - does not prove that it was causing a disease. The skin scrapings are another issue - depending on how they were done.
Not trying to be critical - but how did you manage to get velvet and uronema in the same tank? What were the issues with your quarantine protocol that led to this. I'm seriously not trying to be critical - but if you're getting those diseases (I'll just assume you're correct- that you had them) - it seems like you could be doing something wrong in your purchase, quarantine protocol or something else.
I'm not going to be critical of another website - and it's great that you have great trust in that site (I have not seen it - though I deeply respect Humblefish and his knowledge. However, I will say I completely disagree with your conclusion in the last sentence that: After the success I had we had multiple other people tray out Rally Pro as a treatment and got success. (this from me, a person who routinely recommends ruby rally pro for display tanks). I am curious - how did the velvet get diagnosed? BTW - I do believe that it's more likely for the compounds in the drug are more likely to work as a preventative - and will certainly help. Do you think it helps Ich?
cdnco2004
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They say yes, but I don't do it. I only use it in a DT, in those cases mostly for treating bacterial infections (I am currently at this time doing in DT treatment in one of my 75g tanks for a fish with Popeye which I have had very good results for other fish in other tanks). For other issues I pull the fish in question place them in a hospital tank and pull them daily for treatment baths. I mostly do this in a 2.5 gallon aqueon tank with lid and airstone with 2 gallons of salt water and 6ml of Rally Pro for 90 minutes then return them to the hospital tank.
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