RTN and STN issues

[Miami Reef]

No, the algae came up after everything started to die off.

Ah, ok.

So I’m getting the feeling that this issue started when you switched salts. Have you used a different brand before the Red Sea bucket?

 

[Gatorpa]

FWIW, I'm not really seeing a chemical reason for these issues.

It’s odd the RTN happened right after a water change in both systems.

Perhaps some contamination, not necessarily from the salt..

 

[Gatorpa]

No, the algae came up after everything started to die off.

So all that algae just blossomed rapidly when the SPS started with the RTN…..?.

 

[BelieveInBlue]

I had a similar thing happen: things were doing well and then randomly SPS started to STN, followed by LPS, even though parameters were fairly stable and within reasonable ranges. What finally seemed to fix it was stopping carbon followed by four 10% water changes over the course of a week. Maybe give that a try? My hypothesis is there was something essential to coral growth that was missing that we don't normally test for that the carbon was removing, and the series of water changes brought it back up to reasonable levels again.

 

[Llorgon]

Ah, ok.

So I’m getting the feeling that this issue started when you switched salts. Have you used a different brand before the Red Sea bucket?

I used instant ocean reef crystals before. Switched to red sea in December. Gone through about 1 and a half buckets.

It’s odd the RTN happened right after a water change in both systems.

Perhaps some contamination, not necessarily from the salt..

Ya, I was wondering the same thing as well, I'm just not sure what the contamination would be. I mix water in a brute trash can, Sicce pump for mixing and a newer heater. The hose to siphon things/add water is about 10 years old though.

So all that algae just blossomed rapidly when the SPS started with the RTN…..?.

No, algae started around the begining of August, well after most of the SPS had died. Had a couple week long vacations and I think the tank got a bit over fed.

 

[Llorgon]

I had a similar thing happen: things were doing well and then randomly SPS started to STN, followed by LPS, even though parameters were fairly stable and within reasonable ranges. What finally seemed to fix it was stopping carbon followed by four 10% water changes over the course of a week. Maybe give that a try? My hypothesis is there was something essential to coral growth that was missing that we don't normally test for that the carbon was removing, and the series of water changes brought it back up to reasonable levels again.

Interesting. I'm seeing my LPS starting to be unhappy as well. I actually didn't have any carbon in the tank until I saw the first coral RTN.

At this point though, I'll try the water changes.

 

[shootingstar_reef]

I have had this happen to me too, and it's really frustrating because chemistry doesn't quite explain it (in a consistent way). However, I am suspicious that the two times it happened, I happened to stir up some sand, and some sand got onto the corals. Then one started melting (and bleached within 24hrs), and it spread like an infection to a few other corals. I don't know if this is really the case, but I don't really have a better explanation.

 

[thirst]

I would go back the salt that did work for you and do a few 20% water changes to see if that helps

 

[ReefRondo]

Wow this is very familiar! Following along to see if you find an answer. So sorry to hear of your loses though. It’s deeply frustrating! My issue which was almost identical to this led to me losing almost all sps corals in my system. Whether it was the salt or not has still to be ascertained however the day I changed salt mix the issue slowly stopped. Very odd.

 

[Gatorpa]

I have had this happen to me too, and it's really frustrating because chemistry doesn't quite explain it (in a consistent way). However, I am suspicious that the two times it happened, I happened to stir up some sand, and some sand got onto the corals. Then one started melting (and bleached within 24hrs), and it spread like an infection to a few other corals. I don't know if this is really the case, but I don't really have a better explanation.

That could have been a release of H2SO4 that was in the sand bed.
Did you have a deep sand bed?

Ive seen that when tanks are moved , often there is an associated smell of rotten eggs from the skimmer.

 

[shootingstar_reef]

That could have been a release of H2SO4 that was in the sand bed.
Did you have a deep sand bed?

ooooh that's a good point. I am not sure if it's technically deep - it's about 2-2.5", and this forum tells me that deep is at least 3". So....sorta?

Ive seen that when tanks are moved , often there is an associated smell of rotten eggs from the skimmer.

I don't have a skimmer, so can't confirm unfortunately.

thx for the suggestion!

 

[Llorgon]

I have had this happen to me too, and it's really frustrating because chemistry doesn't quite explain it (in a consistent way). However, I am suspicious that the two times it happened, I happened to stir up some sand, and some sand got onto the corals. Then one started melting (and bleached within 24hrs), and it spread like an infection to a few other corals. I don't know if this is really the case, but I don't really have a better explanation.

Interesting. I stir/vacuum the sand every 2 weeks and there is some sand that gets on corals or the rock work. But it's mostly the corals on the sand bed... Which still seem happy. It is definitely a possibility though.

I would go back the salt that did work for you and do a few 20% water changes to see if that helps

I moved away from instant ocean since it was so unreliable to get locally. But I am going to try some water changes with the tropic Marin and see how that goes.

Wow this is very familiar! Following along to see if you find an answer. So sorry to hear of your loses though. It’s deeply frustrating! My issue which was almost identical to this led to me losing almost all sps corals in my system. Whether it was the salt or not has still to be ascertained however the day I changed salt mix the issue slowly stopped. Very odd.

Agreed. Very frustrating and demoralizing as the same thing is going on in my 25g, luckily I have less SPS in there, but it is affecting a couple acans. How long did it take for you to notice an improvement after changing salts?

 

[ReefRondo]

Interesting. I stir/vacuum the sand every 2 weeks and there is some sand that gets on corals or the rock work. But it's mostly the corals on the sand bed... Which still seem happy. It is definitely a possibility though.

I moved away from instant ocean since it was so unreliable to get locally. But I am going to try some water changes with the tropic Marin and see how that goes.

Agreed. Very frustrating and demoralizing as the same thing is going on in my 25g, luckily I have less SPS in there, but it is affecting a couple acans. How long did it take for you to notice an improvement after changing salts?

It’s too hard to give you a definitive answer I’m afraid. All I know is no new corals have developed either issue since changing. By new I mean existing corals that have fully survived as I have not added new corals since it started. I just can’t work out if these were corals unaffected because of the species, position and countless other factors. With all this new chat of bacterial infections, ciliates etc I’m lost and don’t expect to find an answer now. It was the easy option to blame the salt and in doing that I feel bad as nobody can make that decision based on the limited evidence I have at this time. Unless I literally wrote every single thing I’ve done for the last 6 months down to each tiny adjustment, coral addition etc the jury is out. Things seem to have stabilised however some corals with STN are still dying but I think when they finally go that will be it. I really wish more research could be carried out on this as it seems to be getting more widespread or is it just social media making it easier for us to share?

 

[Llorgon]

It’s too hard to give you a definitive answer I’m afraid. All I know is no new corals have developed either issue since changing. By new I mean existing corals that have fully survived as I have not added new corals since it started. I just can’t work out if these were corals unaffected because of the species, position and countless other factors. With all this new chat of bacterial infections, ciliates etc I’m lost and don’t expect to find an answer now. It was the easy option to blame the salt and in doing that I feel bad as nobody can make that decision based on the limited evidence I have at this time. Unless I literally wrote every single thing I’ve done for the last 6 months down to each tiny adjustment, coral addition etc the jury is out. Things seem to have stabilised however some corals with STN are still dying but I think when they finally go that will be it. I really wish more research could be carried out on this as it seems to be getting more widespread or is it just social media making it easier for us to share?

I checked out your build thread. Really great looking setup you have. Sounds like your issues are very similar to mine, minus I had the nutrient swings in the big tank. My small tank that I am starting to have the same issues with hasn't had any swings or changes of note.

Funny, you switched from tropic marin to red sea and I am trying the opposite.

How did your LPS corals fare throughout the coral loss episode? Mine were fine at first, but are now starting to show signs of stress with the exception of my space invaders colony that has lost tissue from day 1. I've lost a couple acans in my 25g which is pretty upsetting for me.

Question, did your SPS losses come in waves of sorts? I've noticed some die off, nothing for awhile then more die off, then nothing for awhile

 

[Dorsetsteve]

There appear to be patches of red Cyano and do you feel it’s possible that the “hair algae” is Infact Lyngbya majuscula?

All in all it looks like the biology of your reef isn’t where it should be. I would focus on trying to rectify that whilst keeping the chemistry as stable as possible and any input variables out. If it’s not essential cut it and focus on good husbandry.

As long as your source water is good and your mixing salt water at a proper salinity I think the salt brand thing is a red herring.

Plenty of good quality water changes and pshyical removal of the “algaes”. Ensure there’s sufficient clean up crew on the go and just keep going. If you feel like you need to add something then how about a bacterial additive such as MB7.

 

[Llorgon]

There appear to be patches of red Cyano and do you feel it’s possible that the “hair algae” is Infact Lyngbya majuscula?

All in all it looks like the biology of your reef isn’t where it should be. I would focus on trying to rectify that whilst keeping the chemistry as stable as possible and any input variables out. If it’s not essential cut it and focus on good husbandry.

As long as your source water is good and your mixing salt water at a proper salinity I think the salt brand thing is a red herring.

Plenty of good quality water changes and pshyical removal of the “algaes”. Ensure there’s sufficient clean up crew on the go and just keep going. If you feel like you need to add something then how about a bacterial additive such as MB7.

The cyano has been something I have been dealing with for awhile now. But it has slowly been getting better. I had to look up Lyngbya majuscula and I don't think that's what I have. Looks more like the regular gha I have dealt with in the past. I could be wrong though.

Someone in another thread who was running into similar issues said doing a bunch of water changes helped their tank so I will give that a try. I'll get as much algae and cyano out as I can and make sure to keep nutrients from bottoming out. Hopefully I see some improvement.

 

[Llorgon]

Did a 10g water change yesterday, scrubbed the rocks and removed a few more dead coral.

Going to check nitrate and phosphate tonight to make sure they haven't dropped too much.

 

[Llorgon]

Nitrate is still at 6ppm

Phosphate at 0.107ppm

 

[nomad6]

Facing a similar problem my dude, I dipped my coral in iodine for 30 mins 10ml/ gal slowed the rtn. Looking for a solution possibly dipping in erythromycin/ prazi/ iodine next but waiting on the experts to chime in. I have a forest fire, pocillopora, birdsnest colonies on the edge w a couple of acros frags bouncing back yet a few are still bleaching base up. Hopefully things turned out well!