Royal Gramma started flashing today

[taylormaximus]

So I've got only 4 fish in my 32 gallon tank right now, two clownfish, an azure damsel and my Royal Gramma, all of whom have been in the tank for about a year. All fish added have been treated with Copper power and paracleanse, and have never shown any sign of sickness.

Just today I noticed it started flashing against the rocks. It's only on one spot, and since I noticed it about an hour ago he's flashed probably 5 or 6 times. But besides that he's fat and health, always been the alpha of the tank, and probably eats the majority of the food I put in there. I also tried to look close under white light and couldn't see any evidence of ich.

Normally this would still move me to retreat the fish just to be safe, but my QT tank is occupied right now. I have a 5 gallon QT and I have a bangaii cardinal and a dragon sleeper goby that I got recently and are currently in 2.4 ppm copper, and have about 9 days left before they'd be ready to go in the display.

So my questions: is this enough of a concern to move the Gramma to the QT and restart the whole QT? Is it safe to do so when it's already at 2.4 ppm? Is there even enough space in the QT for 3 fish? Would it be better to do a fresh water dip and hope its just flukes? None of the other fish in the tank are showing any signs of illness at the moment. I don't want to overreact to this, but I also don't want to ignore warning signs. Help!

 

[vetteguy53081]

So I've got only 4 fish in my 32 gallon tank right now, two clownfish, an azure damsel and my Royal Gramma, all of whom have been in the tank for about a year. All fish added have been treated with Copper power and paracleanse, and have never shown any sign of sickness.

Just today I noticed it started flashing against the rocks. It's only on one spot, and since I noticed it about an hour ago he's flashed probably 5 or 6 times. But besides that he's fat and health, always been the alpha of the tank, and probably eats the majority of the food I put in there. I also tried to look close under white light and couldn't see any evidence of ich.

Normally this would still move me to retreat the fish just to be safe, but my QT tank is occupied right now. I have a 5 gallon QT and I have a bangaii cardinal and a dragon sleeper goby that I got recently and are currently in 2.4 ppm copper, and have about 9 days left before they'd be ready to go in the display.

So my questions: is this enough of a concern to move the Gramma to the QT and restart the whole QT? Is it safe to do so when it's already at 2.4 ppm? Is there even enough space in the QT for 3 fish? Would it be better to do a fresh water dip and hope its just flukes? None of the other fish in the tank are showing any signs of illness at the moment. I don't want to overreact to this, but I also don't want to ignore warning signs. Help!

As these fish are susceptible to flukes, could very well be. Other signs would be sudden darting across tank, elevated breathing, hiding and loss of appetite. IF and If flukes, treatment would be PraziPro. Can you post a video of about 20 seconds under white light intensity?

 

[taylormaximus]

As these fish are susceptible to flukes, could very well be. Other signs would be sudden darting across tank, elevated breathing, hiding and loss of appetite. IF and If flukes, treatment would be PraziPro. Can you post a video of about 20 seconds under white light intensity?

I'll send a video if I can catch him doing it. He kind of darted around before actually scraping on the rock. Do you suspect flukes are more likely? And if so would prazipro and a FW dip be the way to go or just prazipro?

 

[vetteguy53081]

I'll send a video if I can catch him doing it. He kind of darted around before actually scraping on the rock. Do you suspect flukes are more likely? And if so would prazipro and a FW dip be the way to go or just prazipro?

Prazi would be sufficient

 

[Ziggy17]

Is it possible to do a couple fresh water dips over the next nine days and then get it in the QT when the others are done? I know it’s a temp relief for fluke symptoms, can it be ok for 9 days? If it’s flukes.

I’m asking and not suggesting as I don’t really know the answer.

 

[taylormaximus]

I still haven't been able to get a video of the flashing, but I got a zoomed in video of him at least. Seems to be acting quite normal right now, hasn't flashed in at least an hour and a half, but maybe someone would be able to tell if anything is off. I will note that I just tried feeding a bit more, and he went after food, but spit most of it out after.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I still haven't been able to get a video of the flashing, but I got a zoomed in video of him at least. Seems to be acting quite normal right now, hasn't flashed in at least an hour and a half, but maybe someone would be able to tell if anything is off. I will note that I just tried feeding a bit more, and he went after food, but spit most of it out after.

I'd wait a day or so, maybe the scratching is a temporary thing and not related to flukes.

If the flashing continues, you can easily treat the whole tank with prazipro - that helps in case any of the other fish have flukes, but just aren't showing symptoms yet. The dose for this is to treat the actual volume of water in the tank (usually about 85% of the tank's rated volume) with prazipro, add aeration to the tank, remove any chemical filtrants and run the skimmer, but don't collect the skimmate. Then, after 8 days, give the tank a 25% water change and dose it again.

I'm not sure I understand about it spitting out the food though - is it not eating, or is it just full and spitting out the extra food?

 

[taylormaximus]

I'd wait a day or so, maybe the scratching is a temporary thing and not related to flukes.

If the flashing continues, you can easily treat the whole tank with prazipro - that helps in case any of the other fish have flukes, but just aren't showing symptoms yet. The dose for this is to treat the actual volume of water in the tank (usually about 85% of the tank's rated volume) with prazipro, add aeration to the tank, remove any chemical filtrants and run the skimmer, but don't collect the skimmate. Then, after 8 days, give the tank a 25% water change and dose it again.

I'm not sure I understand about it spitting out the food though - is it not eating, or is it just full and spitting out the extra food?

Is there any way to distinguish the behavioural differences between flukes and ich before the actual white bumps show up? If it is flukes, treating the tank is a good idea. I don't have prazipro because I live in Canada, the closest I could find was paracleanse, but to my understanding it has the same medicinal ingredients, but should that be okay to use in the display? And can I still do that if I don't have a protein skimmer?

With the food I'm not sure. I had fed the tank before I noticed the flashing, and then a few hours later after I noticed, I fed again, and normally the Royal Gramma aggressively goes for all the food it can, before most the other fish can get to it. This time it had much lower energy, still went for some food, but at about half speed, and anytime it grabbed a piece of shrimp it would spit it out. Tried feeding again this morning and did the same thing. Could just be full but definitely seems off.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Is there any way to distinguish the behavioural differences between flukes and ich before the actual white bumps show up? If it is flukes, treating the tank is a good idea. I don't have prazipro because I live in Canada, the closest I could find was paracleanse, but to my understanding it has the same medicinal ingredients, but should that be okay to use in the display? And can I still do that if I don't have a protein skimmer?

With the food I'm not sure. I had fed the tank before I noticed the flashing, and then a few hours later after I noticed, I fed again, and normally the Royal Gramma aggressively goes for all the food it can, before most the other fish can get to it. This time it had much lower energy, still went for some food, but at about half speed, and anytime it grabbed a piece of shrimp it would spit it out. Tried feeding again this morning and did the same thing. Could just be full but definitely seems off.

Fish often don't scratch when they have ich, but usually do if they have flukes. Paracleanse is praziquantel plus metronidazole, that is not as safe to use in a display because of the metro. I wouldn't chance it with invertebrates in the tank, but it is safe of a fish-only display.

That spitting food is a worrisome symptom - it doesn't have a specific cause in most cases (sometimes fish get gravel caught in their throats and they will do that, but I don't think that is the issue here).

 

[Dburr1014]

So I've got only 4 fish in my 32 gallon tank right now, two clownfish, an azure damsel and my Royal Gramma, all of whom have been in the tank for about a year. All fish added have been treated with Copper power and paracleanse, and have never shown any sign of sickness.

Just today I noticed it started flashing against the rocks. It's only on one spot, and since I noticed it about an hour ago he's flashed probably 5 or 6 times. But besides that he's fat and health, always been the alpha of the tank, and probably eats the majority of the food I put in there. I also tried to look close under white light and couldn't see any evidence of ich.

Normally this would still move me to retreat the fish just to be safe, but my QT tank is occupied right now. I have a 5 gallon QT and I have a bangaii cardinal and a dragon sleeper goby that I got recently and are currently in 2.4 ppm copper, and have about 9 days left before they'd be ready to go in the display.

So my questions: is this enough of a concern to move the Gramma to the QT and restart the whole QT? Is it safe to do so when it's already at 2.4 ppm? Is there even enough space in the QT for 3 fish? Would it be better to do a fresh water dip and hope its just flukes? None of the other fish in the tank are showing any signs of illness at the moment. I don't want to overreact to this, but I also don't want to ignore warning signs. Help!

I don't understand. All the fish have been in there for a year, then how would the flukes get in there?
They would have had to have been introduced somehow. Do they go dormant for a whole year before showing up? Is that possible?

Unless of course, you've added something else to the tank recently. Like a coral or a snail and you didn't quarantine it. But you didn't say anything about adding anything else. Did you?

 

[vetteguy53081]

I don't understand. All the fish have been in there for a year, then how would the flukes get in there?
They would have had to have been introduced somehow. Do they go dormant for a whole year before showing up? Is that possible?

Unless of course, you've added something else to the tank recently. Like a coral or a snail and you didn't quarantine it. But you didn't say anything about adding anything else. Did you?

Being that they are a parasitic flatworm, they can be introduced with addition of inverts, live foods and even purchased water from an LFS

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I don't understand. All the fish have been in there for a year, then how would the flukes get in there?
They would have had to have been introduced somehow. Do they go dormant for a whole year before showing up? Is that possible?

Unless of course, you've added something else to the tank recently. Like a coral or a snail and you didn't quarantine it. But you didn't say anything about adding anything else. Did you?

Flukes can persist in an aquarium as a chronic infection for months, even years. Then, something happens in the tank, the fish's resistance gets lowered and the flukes increase in numbers and creates an acute infection.

 

[Dburr1014]

Flukes can persist in an aquarium as a chronic infection for months, even years. Then, something happens in the tank, the fish's resistance gets lowered and the flukes increase in numbers and creates an acute infection.

Thanks, learned something new today!