ROX 0.8 Carbon

ss88 · Jul 17, 2024

History:
I have a system that I have previously used ROX carbon in a media reactor (low flow with gentle tumbling) about a year ago. During and post usage my gem tang developed severe hlle of dorsal and anal fin erosion. Previouslly this fish was owned by another aquarist and came with a small amount of hlle visible on the lateral line to me 1.5 years ago. Obviously I discontinued usage of the carbon entirely, but the fins never recovered. None of the other 6 tangs developed symptoms. I know @Jay Hemdal has discussed the only truly safe way of ensuring hlle will not occur again is by using a new system.

Carbon questions:
1) Is it relatively safe to transfer the rock scape and sps 1' to 2' dia colonies to my new 1000 gallon system or will particulate carbon potentially be introduced to the new system? I would assume the majority of the carbon particulate has been bond by organics or removed by the skimmer. Further this is nearly a substrate free system, only a small amount in local area for wrasses. Will not be transferring substrate.

2) I have a few tangs I would like to hold in this current system for a few weeks until i transfer to my new 1000 gallon system. What's the probability they develop Hlle? Acanthurus leucosternon & Acanthurus achilles.

What's currently in the ROX carbon treated system.

Zebrasoma flavescens
Zebrasoma gemmatum (only specimen effected by hlle)
Paracanthurus hepatus
Naso vlamingii
Naso lituratus
Acanthurus pyroferus
Ctenochaetus tominiensis

I know its the general consensus that ROX carbon is safe, in my experience with this particular brand it would seem otherwise.

Spare time · Jul 17, 2024

Was the rox carbon rinsed? Tumbling is bad. I had a tang develop HLLE twice and both instances were after some rox carbon got grinded up in a reactor by accident. The tang recovered but I also soaked the flake food in the HUFA Omega 3 supplement from brightwell once the issue started.

vetteguy53081 · Jul 17, 2024

As stated, must be rinsed well and added in path of flow

I never finish anythi · Jul 17, 2024

I think the mistake you made was having the carbon tumbling. If it tumbles it will cause friction and that's when micro particles get released in to the water column. Personally I'd never tumble carbon

ss88 · Jul 17, 2024

Yes rinsed very well and rodi water. Slow tumbling, not aggressive. Was aware of risk of it breaking down in reactor, same could occur in static bag. IMO, I won’t use carbon again unless I’m running it over 1 micron filtration afterwards and that’s just not practical.

Any ideas on original two questions?

Spare time · Jul 17, 2024

ss88 said:
Yes rinsed very well and rodi water. Slow tumbling, not aggressive. Was aware of risk of it breaking down in reactor, same could occur in static bag. IMO, I won’t use carbon again unless I’m running it over 1 micron filtration afterwards and that’s just not practical.

Any ideas on original two questions?

I would still use carbon. It just can't tumble at all. I think siphoning the sand, maybe running a flocculant, and brushing the rocks might help.

kvansloo · Jul 17, 2024

1) Is it relatively safe to transfer the rock scape and sps 1' to 2' dia colonies to my new 1000 gallon system or will particulate carbon potentially be introduced to the new system? I would assume the majority of the carbon particulate has been bond by organics or removed by the skimmer. Further this is nearly a substrate free system, only a small amount in local area for wrasses. Will not be transferring substrate.

I would think this would be fine also. But there is no way of being sure, maybe dip rocks in fresh saltwater in a tub to help remove any free debris.

Try and keep the move as stress free as possible, Tangs should be fine but keep a close eye on them just in case.

ss88 · Jul 17, 2024

I never finish anythi said:
I think the mistake you made was having the carbon tumbling. If it tumbles it will cause friction and that's when micro particles get released in to the water column. Personally I'd never tumble carbon

Spare time said:
I would still use carbon. It just can't tumble at all. I think siphoning the sand, maybe running a flocculant, and brushing the rocks might help.

While this is totally second hand, I have another local reefer here that has used ROX as well in media bags. He has two aquariums both have zebrasoma tangs. Both have horrible hlle. Never used in a reactor.

Even in this study, 2 of the 12 fish developed hlle after discontinuation of pellet carbon in a mesh bag, not reactor.

Head and Lateral Line Erosion (HLLE)

This article discusses studies performed regarding head and lateral line erosion in captive fishes. Specifically, carbon use and nutrition as they relate to this syndrome.

www.reef2reef.com

ss88 · Jul 17, 2024

kvansloo said:
I would think this would be fine also. But there is no way of being sure, maybe dip rocks in fresh saltwater in a tub to help remove any free debris.

Try and keep the move as stress free as possible, Tangs should be fine but keep a close eye on them just in case.

I was thinking along the same lines, problem, 70% of my tank mass is sps coral once you remove water. I will likely just use rock thats been seeding and try to only transfer coral itself.

Spare time · Jul 17, 2024

ss88 said:
While this is totally second hand, I have another local reefer here that has used ROX as well in media bags. He has two aquariums both have zebrasoma tangs. Both have horrible hlle. Never used in a reactor.

Even in this study, 2 of the 12 fish developed hlle after discontinuation of pellet carbon in a mesh bag, not reactor.

Head and Lateral Line Erosion (HLLE)

This article discusses studies performed regarding head and lateral line erosion in captive fishes. Specifically, carbon use and nutrition as they relate to this syndrome.

www.reef2reef.com

Reef spec carbon, while coconut based (not ideal0, is very durable and has extremely little dust.

Jay Hemdal · Jul 17, 2024

ss88 said:
Yes rinsed very well and rodi water. Slow tumbling, not aggressive. Was aware of risk of it breaking down in reactor, same could occur in static bag. IMO, I won’t use carbon again unless I’m running it over 1 micron filtration afterwards and that’s just not practical.

Any ideas on original two questions?

I don’t have good answers for your two questions, but agitating the rock in seawater as you move it would help remove any carbon fines. I usually see fines in the substrate or in tank sumps, not in the rocks.

Previous carbon use and how that relates to the healing or continued development of HLLE lesions hasn’t been sufficiently studied.

Of your tang list, only 2 and 3 are really prone to HLLE. YT get an atypical version of carbon use is really severe. Ctenochaetus sometimes get it, but not very often. I’ve never had a naso or pyroferous show it.

Although ROX use has a low number of reported issues, tumbling any carbon seems to increase the incidence of HLLE.

ss88 · Jul 18, 2024

Thank you everyone for the feedback.

I plan on not transferring as much rock as possible. Only those rocks that have sps colonies and then before introduction into new system scrubbing those rocks with fresh saltwater.

@Jay Hemdal I would have to agree, Z. gemmatum appear to be super susceptible to HLLE.

For now, I guess I will hold on transferring these two Acanthurus leucosternon & Acanthurus achilles.

I suspect running over a 1 micron pleated cartridge would remove the carbon dust, but seems super impractical as it would clog very quickly. What a hate and love relationship with carbon.

Jay Hemdal · Jul 18, 2024

ss88 said:
Thank you everyone for the feedback.

I plan on not transferring as much rock as possible. Only those rocks that have sps colonies and then before introduction into new system scrubbing those rocks with fresh saltwater.

@Jay Hemdal I would have to agree, Z. gemmatum appear to be super susceptible to HLLE.

For now, I guess I will hold on transferring these two Acanthurus leucosternon & Acanthurus achilles.

I suspect running over a 1 micron pleated cartridge would remove the carbon dust, but seems super impractical as it would clog very quickly. What a hate and love relationship with carbon.

1 micron will clog right away. You might be able to stage filtration to get down to a small size, but 5 or 10 micron is more practical.

Couple of things to remember - I don’t know the size of carbon fines (I imagine there is a range) but more importantly, neither study proved it was carbon fines that actually cause the problem, only that carbon use did. I do think carbon fines are the issue, but that is an unproven hypothesis at this point.