Red Sea Reefer 350 G2 catastrophic failure

[VintageReefer]

I can understand this...

- I hadn't considered bowing due to the thickness and rigidity of the bottom.

- I would think that the downward pressure on the front pain (due to not being supported) would be a contributing factor.

There is no downward pressure on the front panel (ok…very little) Downward pressure would come from gravitational forces above. The only direct downward force on that front pane is the pane itself.

The water in the tank exerts force in two directions. Downwards on the bottom pane. And outwards on the vertical panes on all sides

The bottom of the tank will (shouldn’t but it can) bow downwards if not properly braced / supported, and also if it’s not thick enough. The bottom pane is what really crucially needs support so there’s no flexing

The silicone should be strong enough to hold all those vertical panels together. Otherwise all tanks would be built with frames

Having the top of the cabinet extend forward 1/2” to “support” the front glass really does nothing but help offset downwards force, which is minimal for the front pane. There is nothing above the front pane causing downwards force needing it to be supported. This is why/how other companies use this design without issue. Maybe rare occasional issue. Not in the realm of the Red Sea issues.

The problem with the front seam failures is from 1) poor silicone / glass bonding and/or 2) bottom panel flexing / bowing, which puts strain on the seam, and then combined with a weak silicone…

Red Sea did not admit to a bowing issue of the cabinet, but they did revise the design to include…a vertical front brace…so it’s a half admission.

Red Sea did not admit to a seam issue either. But they did revise the design to include “armored seams”…so that’s a half admission also.

Now…I have seen another issue besides bottom seam failures and that’s the side seam failures. This doesn’t seem like a cabinet issue to me. This screams silicone issue.

But from the combination of both side and front bottom seam failures it’s clear to me with 20+ years of engineering background and managing departments of engineers and overseeing and approving / rejecting all their designs and projects, these tanks are not
1) overbuilt with a 3-5x safety factor
Meaning if tank weighs 300 lbs filled, stand should support minimum of 900 lbs without any flexing in any way

And

2) not using materials designed to do their job for 10+ years
Meaning as example - wood / chipboard that will turn to mush after 5 years in humid environments, silicone that won’t hold a bond with xxx lbs of pressure 24x7 for 10 years etc etc

Sorry for the novel, I just want it clear that the cabinet being 1/2” short so the doors can shut flush, is not the issue and extending 1/2” would not prevent the issues

 

[Reginald Reefer III]

There is no downward pressure on the front panel (ok…very little) Downward pressure would come from gravitational forces above. The only direct downward force on that front pane is the pane itself.

The water in the tank exerts force in two directions. Downwards on the bottom pane. And outwards on the vertical panes on all sides

The bottom of the tank will (shouldn’t but it can) bow downwards if not properly braced / supported, and also if it’s not thick enough. The bottom pane is what really crucially needs support so there’s no flexing

The silicone should be strong enough to hold all those vertical panels together. Otherwise all tanks would be built with frames

Having the top of the cabinet extend forward 1/2” to “support” the front glass really does nothing but help offset downwards force, which is minimal for the front pane. There is nothing above the front lane causing downwards force needing it to be supported. This is why/how other companies use this design without issue. Maybe rare occasional issue. Not in the realm of the Red Sea issues.

The problem with the front seam failures is from 1) poor silicone / glass bonding and/or 2) bottom panel flexing / bowing, which puts strain on the seam, and then combined with a weak silicone…

Red Sea did not admit to a bowning issue of the cabinet, but they did revise the design to include…a vertical front brace…so it’s a half admission.

Red Sea did not admit to a seam issue either. But they did revise the design to include “armored seams”…so that’s a half admission also.

Now…I have seen another issue besides bottom seam failures and that’s the side seam failures. This doesn’t seem like a cabinet issue to me. This screams silicone issue.

But from the combination of both side and front bottom seam failures it’s clear to me with 20+ years of engineering background and managing departments of engineers and overseeing and approving / rejecting all their designs and projects, these tanks are not
1) overbuilt with a 3-5x safety factor
Meaning if tank weighs 300 lbs filled, stand should support minimum of 900 lbs without any flexing in any way

And

2) not using materials designed to do their job for 10+ years
Meaning as example - wood / chipboard that will turn to mush after 5 years in humid environments, silicone that won’t hold a bond with xxx lbs of pressure 24x7 for 10 years etc etc

Sorry for the novel, I just want it clear that the cabinet being 1/2” short so the doors can shut flush, is not the issue and extending 1/2” would not prevent the issues

Agreed. 20+ year engineer here as well. It’s either shoddy silicone or glass.

 

[Dom]

There is no downward pressure on the front panel (ok…very little) Downward pressure would come from gravitational forces above. The only direct downward force on that front pane is the pane itself.

The water in the tank exerts force in two directions. Downwards on the bottom pane. And outwards on the vertical panes on all sides

The bottom of the tank will (shouldn’t but it can) bow downwards if not properly braced / supported, and also if it’s not thick enough. The bottom pane is what really crucially needs support so there’s no flexing

The silicone should be strong enough to hold all those vertical panels together. Otherwise all tanks would be built with frames

Having the top of the cabinet extend forward 1/2” to “support” the front glass really does nothing but help offset downwards force, which is minimal for the front pane. There is nothing above the front pane causing downwards force needing it to be supported. This is why/how other companies use this design without issue. Maybe rare occasional issue. Not in the realm of the Red Sea issues.

The problem with the front seam failures is from 1) poor silicone / glass bonding and/or 2) bottom panel flexing / bowing, which puts strain on the seam, and then combined with a weak silicone…

Red Sea did not admit to a bowing issue of the cabinet, but they did revise the design to include…a vertical front brace…so it’s a half admission.

Red Sea did not admit to a seam issue either. But they did revise the design to include “armored seams”…so that’s a half admission also.

Now…I have seen another issue besides bottom seam failures and that’s the side seam failures. This doesn’t seem like a cabinet issue to me. This screams silicone issue.

But from the combination of both side and front bottom seam failures it’s clear to me with 20+ years of engineering background and managing departments of engineers and overseeing and approving / rejecting all their designs and projects, these tanks are not
1) overbuilt with a 3-5x safety factor
Meaning if tank weighs 300 lbs filled, stand should support minimum of 900 lbs without any flexing in any way

And

2) not using materials designed to do their job for 10+ years
Meaning as example - wood / chipboard that will turn to mush after 5 years in humid environments, silicone that won’t hold a bond with xxx lbs of pressure 24x7 for 10 years etc etc

Sorry for the novel, I just want it clear that the cabinet being 1/2” short so the doors can shut flush, is not the issue and extending 1/2” would not prevent the issues

Exactly. And when I think of the weight of the pane, I felt it was a much bigger contributing factor. But I am not an engineer, and acquiesce to your experience.

The novel was received and informative. I've learned some things, so thank you for taking the time to explain.

Many tank stands use particle board, which I've always felt was a poor choice of material for the very reasons you cited. And in humid environments, I too feel they are a bad choice.

But in the end, this probably comes down to one thing; money. Cheaper designs and materials increase profit margins.

 

[DucRacer1199]

What a nightmare!!!! Hate to see this happen, I hope everything gets figured out.

 

[Magic031707]

I am looking at my 1.5 year old RSR 350 G2+ right now and this is making me viscerally disturbed. I am SO sorry you’re going through this…oak floors?!? Res Sea is trash. I have been pushed to the brink of insanity with their products, especially the reefmat. Their cs was terrible. The Reefrun and ReefBeat are a joke too. I agree with the class action sentiment for all these reefers who have had their hobby and homes destroyed. I’m a lawyer, maybe I should talk to some friends about this…I’m getting ready to buy a 380 gallon waterbox and now I’m worried about this floating front thing. Ugh. Hope you got all your critters saved guys

Go custom acrylic, custom sump and stand for cheaper. When i made the change i could sleep at night. Sorry to hear this to the OP.

 

[lakai]

Which one of you is this?

 

[VintageReefer]

Which one of you is this?

Can you upload to YouTube ? Appears video is broken

 

[BetteMidler]

Which one of you is this?

This guy

 

[lakai]

Which one of you is this?


Can you upload to YouTube ? Appears video is broken

 

[nickng]

There is no downward pressure on the front panel (ok…very little) Downward pressure would come from gravitational forces above. The only direct downward force on that front pane is the pane itself.

The water in the tank exerts force in two directions. Downwards on the bottom pane. And outwards on the vertical panes on all sides

The bottom of the tank will (shouldn’t but it can) bow downwards if not properly braced / supported, and also if it’s not thick enough. The bottom pane is what really crucially needs support so there’s no flexing

The silicone should be strong enough to hold all those vertical panels together. Otherwise all tanks would be built with frames

Having the top of the cabinet extend forward 1/2” to “support” the front glass really does nothing but help offset downwards force, which is minimal for the front pane. There is nothing above the front pane causing downwards force needing it to be supported. This is why/how other companies use this design without issue. Maybe rare occasional issue. Not in the realm of the Red Sea issues.

The problem with the front seam failures is from 1) poor silicone / glass bonding and/or 2) bottom panel flexing / bowing, which puts strain on the seam, and then combined with a weak silicone…

Red Sea did not admit to a bowing issue of the cabinet, but they did revise the design to include…a vertical front brace…so it’s a half admission.

Red Sea did not admit to a seam issue either. But they did revise the design to include “armored seams”…so that’s a half admission also.

Now…I have seen another issue besides bottom seam failures and that’s the side seam failures. This doesn’t seem like a cabinet issue to me. This screams silicone issue.

But from the combination of both side and front bottom seam failures it’s clear to me with 20+ years of engineering background and managing departments of engineers and overseeing and approving / rejecting all their designs and projects, these tanks are not
1) overbuilt with a 3-5x safety factor
Meaning if tank weighs 300 lbs filled, stand should support minimum of 900 lbs without any flexing in any way

And

2) not using materials designed to do their job for 10+ years
Meaning as example - wood / chipboard that will turn to mush after 5 years in humid environments, silicone that won’t hold a bond with xxx lbs of pressure 24x7 for 10 years etc etc

Sorry for the novel, I just want it clear that the cabinet being 1/2” short so the doors can shut flush, is not the issue and extending 1/2” would not prevent the issues

On the german forums, they are hinting that it's because of the tyoe of silicone used by RedSea
pages 3 to 5

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