Ratios for Dosing Copper Power

[HotRocks]

@HotRocks your math and calculations are dead on accurate! I used them last week with copper power in my qt and got the exact same numbers from the Hanna tester as the calculations you posted. Makes me feel more comfortable too about the Hanna readings when there is some math behind it to double check
Thanks for all the info and research!

You are welcome. This^^^ is why I recommend the two be used in combination. It's proof that both products are exceptional. One backs up the other and vice versa.

 

[ViciousDlishus]

What's the best method for removing copper power. I've had a poly filter in my tank for 3 days and it's still above therapeutic levels! Its gonna take forever to get prazi in the tank at this point [emoji28]

 

[HotRocks]

Easiest quickest way is to do a 100% WC or a series of large WCs.

Carbon and polyfilters won't do much in removing copper power or chelated forms of copper.

 

[pdiehm]

I have recently been getting a few requests for how to adjust dosing with all of my research on the hanna checker and copper power being used together. Figured I would throw this up as a point of reference.

For anyone using Copper Power:

Bottle concentration will bring you to a Cu level of 2.5ppm if dosed as instructed. Although it is not always necessary to dose your QT with a level that high. Copper power is considered therapeutic at a Cu Level of 1.5ppm. 1.5ppm is the MINIMUM. I personally have been using Copper Power at a level of 1.75ppm using the hanna checker to make sure I maintain a level safely above the Minimum.

You can see @Humblefish's communication with Endich, the manufacturer of Copper Power in the thread below, verifying the minimum level of 1.5ppm

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/chelated-copper-is-chelated-copper.373513/

To figure out how to adjust the dosages follow these easy steps;

Total gallons x 1.475ml = Total ml to reach 2.5ppm
Now Take 2.5ppm / Total ml = PPM per ML Dosed
Now take desired target / PPM per ML Dosed = Total ml needed to reach desired target

For Example my QT is a 40b. Subtract displacement Add HOB filter volume. I have exactly 40 gallons of water to treat.

40gal x 1.475ml=59ml
2.5ppm / 59ml= .042ppm per ml dosed
1.75ppm / .042ppm = 41.7ml Total

I called it 42ml total. Ramped up over 7 days (6ml per day split into 2 doses, 3ml in am/3ml in pm)
You can then take the total ml needed for your volume and split it into whatever dosing schedule or "ramp up" you desire.

Edit: I should have mentioned in my original post if you are using the Hanna checker to test you can do so after each dose, or every other dose and figure out exactly how many ppm you should be increasing using the above ^^^ equation. This will also indicate if you are encountering any absorption.

Here are also some simple guidelines if you don't want to do the math above or are using visual test methods.
This is a little less accurate than above (Just trying to keep from going out 10 decimal points), but will get you darn close.
1.48ml per gallon = 2.5ppm
1.33ml per gallon = 2.25ppm
1.18ml per gallon = 2.0ppm
1.04ml per gallon = 1.75ppm
.89ml per gallon = 1.5ppm

No matter which formula you use above, make sure to take the following into consideration.
*This only works if you aren't encountering any absorption.
*You also need to measure the volume of water in QT, for example don't just assume a 20 gallon tank to hold exactly 20 gallons (You have to consider displacement and what level you are filling the tank to, also volume of HOB if you use one.).
*MAKE SURE TO TEST FREQUENTLY
*If you see signs of velvet it is not recommended to use the 5-7 day ramp up period, you would want to reach at least 1.5ppm within 48 hours.

API, Hach, Chemetrics, and Hanna are all suitable test methods for copper power.

I'm making a card to laminate and put next to my QT tank.

to dose copper power at 1.0 ppm for the initial QT set up for new arrivals:

if 1.18ml per gallon is 2.0 ppm, divide that in half for 0.59ml per gallon for 1.0 ppm (~22ml). Then each day dose 0.15ml per gallon for 3 days (2.7ml in AM, 2.8ml in PM) to get me to 1.75ppm (or in that general area)

Yes?

 

[HotRocks]

I'm making a card to laminate and put next to my QT tank.

to dose copper power at 1.0 ppm for the initial QT set up for new arrivals:

if 1.18ml per gallon is 2.0 ppm, divide that in half for 0.59ml per gallon for 1.0 ppm (~22ml). Then each day dose 0.15ml per gallon for 3 days (2.7ml in AM, 2.8ml in PM) to get me to 1.75ppm (or in that general area)

Yes?

Yes I agree, the math works. How many gallons is your QT?

 

[pdiehm]

Yes I agree, the math works. How many gallons is your QT?

bah, I calculated it for my 40 breeder observation. My 20 long is the main QT tank, and holds about 17 gallons of water.

 

[don_chuwish]

Funny, I was playing with these numbers in Excel before finding this thread. Trying to come up with a quick reference chart for a 1.75ppm target at various volumes of water. Then I found this thread and my numbers didn't match yours - to the hundredths. Drove me a little crazy until I realized you'd simply rounded things up or down a bit here and there for simplicity.

Using 1 US Oz = 29.57ml and 1.75ppm/2.5ppm=0.7, and only being interested in the 1.75ppm target, I made a chart to cover likely water change amounts and typical tank sizes. Then noticed it basically just works out to 1ml/gallon. Silly me.

So then I set about making a chart for the 6 day ramp up after starting at 1ppm, for various standard tank sizes. In Excel its easy to just substitute in different numbers if your starting point, target, or ramp periods are different. But here's what it looks like:

Formulas:
D2 = C2-B2
F2 = D2/2.5
G2 = E2*F2
I2 = A2*(G2/H2)

Look right? If not I'll have to delete this post!

 

[Billldg]

K, this math is making my head hurt. So on a 40 gal tank, what ml do I need to dose to get to 1 ppm and then what do I need to dose each day to get it to 1.75 ppm over a 3 day period? Is 23 to 24 ml for 1 ppm about right? Then 6 ml a day for 3 days to get to 1.75 ppm roughly?

Also, how r Pintail Fairy Wrasses on this QT program?

No acclimation period, right? Just float bag for temp.

@HotRocks

 

[HotRocks]

K, this math is making my head hurt. So on a 40 gal tank, what ml do I need to dose to get to 1 ppm and then what do I need to dose each day to get it to 1.75 ppm over a 3 day period? Is 23 to 24 ml for 1 ppm about right? Then 6 ml a day for 3 days to get to 1.75 ppm roughly?

Also, how r Pintail Fairy Wrasses on this QT program?

No acclimation period, right? Just float bag for temp.

@HotRocks

.59ml per gallon = 1.0ppm
40 gallon x .59ml = 23.6ml


Then for .25ppm daily increase it's .15ml per gallon.

.15ml x 40 gallon = 5.9ml

So 5.9ml per day for 3 days. I would do a 3ml am and a 3ml pm dose. This is exactly what I do with my 40.

Wrasses will be fine. I have treated several this way. Yes as long as salinity matches. Float for temp acclimation 30 minutes and release.

 

[pdiehm]

.59ml per gallon = 1.0ppm
40 gallon x .59ml = 23.6ml


Then for .25ppm daily increase it's .15ml per gallon.

.15ml x 40 gallon = 5.9ml

So 5.9ml per day for 3 days. I would do a 3ml am and a 3ml pm dose. This is exactly what I do with my 40.

Wrasses will be fine. I have treated several this way. Yes as long as salinity matches. Float for temp acclimation 30 minutes and release.

@HotRocks - just confirming, if I set my QT up at 1.017/1.018, and the fish bag is 1.022 or so, they are fine to go in lower salinity without acclimation, but don't handle increase in salinity too well...or do I have it reversed?

 

[HotRocks]

@HotRocks - just confirming, if I set my QT up at 1.017/1.018, and the fish bag is 1.022 or so, they are fine to go in lower salinity without acclimation, but don't handle increase in salinity too well...or do I have it reversed?

That is correct. The fish don't mind lower salinity. It's a sudden increase that can create problems.

 

[don_chuwish]

.59ml per gallon = 1.0ppm
40 gallon x .59ml = 23.6ml


Then for .25ppm daily increase it's .15ml per gallon.

.15ml x 40 gallon = 5.9ml

So 5.9ml per day for 3 days. I would do a 3ml am and a 3ml pm dose. This is exactly what I do with my 40.

Yay! This matches my (admittedly) overcomplicated spreadsheet. I like it cuz I can plug in whatever numbers and get the daily splits.

I've also tweaked another table for quick reference:

- D

 

[don_chuwish]

BTW, good time to get more Hanna reagents right now. Or the Copper checker if you haven't already - %15 off sale at BRS.

 

[alpenreefer]

@HotRocks
Thanks for your quick reply on the QT thread and the link to your Current QT Process which includes a link to this thread.
As I mentioned on the Quarantine thread, new fish arrived today and are now in QT's, however QT's do not have pretreated 1.0ppm Cu levels. Should I:
a) Dose Copper Power (no ramp) to initial 1.0ppm? Then follow with .25ppm/day
or
b) Begin ramp up of Copper Power to TL of 1.75ppm? Would this be at the .25ppm/day rate?

Thanks again.

 

[HotRocks]

@HotRocks
Thanks for your quick reply on the QT thread and the link to your Current QT Process which includes a link to this thread.
As I mentioned on the Quarantine thread, new fish arrived today and are now in QT's, however QT's do not have pretreated 1.0ppm Cu levels. Should I:
a) Dose Copper Power (no ramp) to initial 1.0ppm? Then follow with .25ppm/day
or
b) Begin ramp up of Copper Power to TL of 1.75ppm? Would this be at the .25ppm/day rate?

Thanks again.

You can do either. Start ramp up now. Increasing .25ppm per day or predose to 1.0ppm then do the short 3 day ramp.

Essentially float and release into 1.0ppm should be the same as dosing to 1.0ppm with the fish in the tank.

 

[Burrito]

so using some math and tables in this thread, i have fish coming tomorrow in my 20G with a AC70 (.75g), i have my water up to the rim so lets say i have 20G of water (nothing else but a few pvc part in the tank and a powerhead.

i should does 11.8ml of copper power today to get my QT at 1ppm and float and release the fish into my pre match salinity water.
then over the next 3 days does 3ml of copper power per day to get to 1.75ppm, i can does 1.5ml morning and night to split it up a bit. so 6 1.5ml doses.

then if/when i need to do a water change, i would do 5g at a time and i would pretreat my WC water with 5.175ml of copper power to match the levels of copper (1.75ppm)

solid math/plan?

 

[HotRocks]

so using some math and tables in this thread, i have fish coming tomorrow in my 20G with a AC70 (.75g), i have my water up to the rim so lets say i have 20G of water (nothing else but a few pvc part in the tank and a powerhead.

i should does 11.8ml of copper power today to get my QT at 1ppm and float and release the fish into my pre match salinity water.
then over the next 3 days does 3ml of copper power per day to get to 1.75ppm, i can does 1.5ml morning and night to split it up a bit. so 6 1.5ml doses.

then if/when i need to do a water change, i would do 5g at a time and i would pretreat my WC water with 5.175ml of copper power to match the levels of copper (1.75ppm)

solid math/plan?

Looks good to me^^^ This is exactly what I would do!

 

[SallyWho]

If a fish needs to remain in copper at therapeutic levels for 30 days, I'm assuming the 30 day countdown begins when the concentration reaches at least the minimum therapeutic level of 1.5ppm? I'm aiming for 1.75-2.0ppm, depending on how my wrasse feels. But I have a sort of dirty, fallow QT tank where I keep seeded live rock, biomedia, and pods (and cuc members as I get them in). If I get the nitrates down in that one, can I switch the wrasse over to that tank after 2 weeks, and then thoroughly clean the first tank and run carbon to remove the copper power, before putting the wrasse back for his round of prazi? If I can shorten his time in the copper power without jeopardizing his prophylactic treatment, that would be ideal!

 

[HotRocks]

If a fish needs to remain in copper at therapeutic levels for 30 days, I'm assuming the 30 day countdown begins when the concentration reaches at least the minimum therapeutic level of 1.5ppm? I'm aiming for 1.75-2.0ppm, depending on how my wrasse feels. But I have a sort of dirty, fallow QT tank where I keep seeded live rock, biomedia, and pods (and cuc members as I get them in). If I get the nitrates down in that one, can I switch the wrasse over to that tank after 2 weeks, and then thoroughly clean the first tank and run carbon to remove the copper power, before putting the wrasse back for his round of prazi? If I can shorten his time in the copper power without jeopardizing his prophylactic treatment, that would be ideal!

That is correct. I have adapted to using multiple QTs and only treating in therapeutic copper for 14 days then transferring to a second sterile QT.

I always start the clock once I reach my target of 1.75ppm. Not the day I reach the minimum. It's only a one day difference. I always error to the side of caution through. Taking risks in this hobby have never panned out well for me.

 

[SallyWho]

That is correct. I have adapted to using multiple QTs and only treating in therapeutic copper for 14 days then transferring to a second sterile QT.

I always start the clock once I reach my target of 1.75ppm. Not the day I reach the minimum. It's only a one day difference. I always error to the side of caution through. Taking risks in this hobby have never panned out well for me.

Thanks, @HotRocks!