Radium metal halide bulbs will not be produced anymore!

[Nonya]

So back to the OP subject. Who else is still making high-Kelvin MH bulbs?

It seems there are a few options available to people insisting on MH:
Stock up on bulbs that you currently use
Find out if Radium will support a surge
Find a suitable substitute that you like
Aliexpress

 

[TaylorPilot]

Actually it doesn't "exactly" work that way.. At least as I understand it.
First off w MH some of those watts produce IR heating directly to the water. Something LEDs do not do. Second you have conversion efficiency..

Some leds convert more watts to photons not heat.
MH's are good but not as good as the current leds which may or may not be used.


The overall difference (excluding the radiative heat part) is not as great as some believe but is a factor.



I wouldn't go near as far as 5x but one can get about 2x. So 1/2 of the energy input (watts) is released as heat since they can be 2x more efficient in producing photons.

Another way to put it is 1W of LED can produce 2x the photons of a Metal Halide.
Add in the more directional and less restrike and other reflector losses plus the production of "arguably" less useless energy (IR >800nm) well you get the picture.

And what do you think that visible light is converted into? In a closed system (the entire array inside your air conditioned home) the direct result of wattage into the lighting system will be heat.

There is an argument that you can produce more light with less wattage with an LED over a MH, and that is why they claim that they produce less heat, but that is only if you compare light output, not wattage. Yes, more IR is produced with a MH, so it may warm the water more, but the overall net result to your home watt for watt is heat. Even the visible light that is produced is absorbed by the material around the home and in the tank, and is converted into heat. A very small amount of that energy is absorbed into the tissues for metabolism, but in short order that energy is metabolized in the form of sugars which creates heat...

Same with the pumps. If I have 150 watt pump submerged in my tank, the net result will be 150 watts of heat added to the water. Yes, most of it is converted into water movement, but that water slows down (rather quickly) due to friction against objects in the tank and against other water...the result is almost 100% of that water movement being converted into heat (a very small percentage may be converted to sound that escapes the tank, but those sound waves are absorbed by your walls and furniture and is turned into heat). The only way to remove the heat would be to use some sort of ducting to get the heat off the heat sinks and vent it from the home, or to mount the pump externally from the home via longer plumbing runs. It is the law of conservation of energy...Every watt of power you put into your aquarium enters your home as heat.

 

[jda]

Changing 1000 watt bulbs on big PA dispalys can be expensive and a real PITA. Changing the 80+ bulbs on the 212,000 reef I ran was a nightmare that took months of planning and then months of getting it done...yearly. Not having to do that yearly would a sanity and expense cutting measure (not having to pay electricians overtime to bring in the cherry picker and change bulbs/ballasts). The capitol expense of changing to 80+ 1000 watt LED was signifigant, so it didn't happen, though we looked a lot and they are looking at it again because getting 1000 watt bulbs isn't easy anymore. The 1000 equlivent LED fixtures are still few and far between, so jumping to them isn't just a capitol cost, it is a trust cost.
Most large exhibits are using MH for illumination not animal health, so the kind of bulbs used aren't all that important. MH are great for these because the bulbs can be inexpensive, but even they are moving over to LED.
For some with established reef tanks, changing over is a hard decision, and they often don't change out, but when exhibits change, many will switch to LED if they can afford it.
Where I worked, most of smaller exhibits switched over to LED when possible or convienient. Replacing MH bulbs yearly and disposing of them correctly is annoying and expensive. This seems to be the case at new facilities and facilities doing remodels that I still talk too, though there are holdouts that don't.

Have seen (and heard) of some lighting their non-reefs with solar tubes when being redone. Most places aren't really open when the sun is not out. People don't seem to notice any difference when a lionfish or a group of lookdowns swims by on a bright day or a cloudy one. I forget what the huge fish tank at the Denver Aquarium uses over their larger fish tank that runs the whole side of a restaurant, but I think that it is natural only? Smart, it seems.

I have not run 1000w halides in years, but I used to give my used bulbs to a local public display in KC and they would stash them an use them until they burned out.

Did you all try the ecoxotic 1000w cannons? Had a dude offer to ship me all that I wanted to try, but he told me to hurry since he might set fire to all of them very soon. I don't think that most folks understand how this segment of the market does not really have a LED replacement worth a darn.

I am waiting till the fever pitch maximizes then I am selling my ballasts, bulbs and fixtures. I call my stash "Halide coin"

Whatchu got stashed out? Asking for a friend! Kidding... mostly, unless you have 14k Phoenix bulbs. I have a bunch of fixtures and wattages that I am never going to use anymore (400w) and I suffer the same dilemma of when to get rid of them. If I wait and then Hamilton drops every wattage in 10, 14 and 20k, HQI ballasts and sleek fixtures like a Spectra/Infiniti, then my stuff is not worth the cost to ship them again. Normal ballasts are already not worth much since hydroponics eBallasts are better anyway, IMO. If Hamilton does not come through and ReefBrite shuts down, then I could have people lining up to take a look.

 

[jda]

Listen, this is not 2012, we are way past the LEDs save power argument. They were only more efficient when people made bad choices. LEDs can be less efficient with bad choices too - dude near me had a 800w home made LED rig that put out less PAR on my Apogee 510 than a 6x T5 did. AcroOptics come to mind of very powerful LED units that don't put out much output for the wattage - those things double as heaters too. I don't think that anybody needs to rehash this... if you choose well, it is going to be about the same. I don't need any argument of worst of breed X vs best of breed Y - compare the best of breeds and this all goes away.

Heat can be good or bad... for most of us who have to use heaters, it is a wash. If you can avoid a chiller, then maybe one is better, but that also likely means that you live in a climate where you probably want a chiller for safety anyway.

 

[Z Burn's Reefing]

Not surprising.
2 of those are subjective. One is not.
Hats off to you. Lots of work.
And expensive " back in the day"

Thank you for taking my subjective opinions and letting me know they are subjective. It is really helpful! I have to go through the peer-reviewed publication process for my profession.... I was hoping I could write a sentence on a reef forum without peer review to get a little break. Apparently not...I am now reminded why my message count has been so low since 2016. I wonder what impact factor reef2reef comes in at?

 

[PaulErik]

in case you(or anybody) is interested.. I studied a bunch of ballasts spec sheets and found that the m132/m154 ballast is a very close match to the m80. It is still very available new, between 60-100$. Both are magnetic. Its rated at 320w vs 300w(m80) but draws 3.2a@120v, compares to the 3.3a a m80 draws. I bought one and hooked it up next to a m80, with pheonix 14k bulbs, can't tell the difference looking at them side by side. The m132/m154 warms up faster, by a few seconds. I bought 5 more incase I run out of m80s. No par or spectral data to share. Just that it didn't go blue(er) like a e ballast does.

Most North American ballast spec sheets only list the ANSI spec which specifies the lamp operating parameters. The ballast operating parameters just list the input side.

Lamp operating parameters:

ANSI M132/M154
Lamp current: 2.6A
Lamp voltage: 135V

ANSI M80
Lamp current: 3.0A
Lamp voltage: 100V

I have the full list of ANSI specs. The ANSI specifications also detail other parameters like ignition, warm up phase and limits.

An ANSI M132/M154 ballast will still underdrive a M80 spec bulb. The closest match would be an ANSI S50 ballast but requires a speciality ignitor to be added because the starting parameters are not met.

 

[jda]

I always wondered if a 330w hydroponics eBallast for HPS/CMH/HID would work for a m80 substitute. Never tried it.

My real m80 put out about 330w to the bulb and draw between 352-360w.

Anybody try this one? I am not familiar with C185 ANSI code. It might need an ignitor too.

Advance AS330WQUADVPK 330 Watt Metal Halide Ballast

330 Watts - C185 - Metal Halide Ballast - 120/208/240/277V

www.bulbsdepot.com

 

[Reefering1]

Most North American ballast spec sheets only list the ANSI spec which specifies the lamp operating parameters. The ballast operating parameters just list the input side.

Lamp operating parameters:

ANSI M132/M154
Lamp current: 2.6A
Lamp voltage: 135V

ANSI M80
Lamp current: 3.0A
Lamp voltage: 100V

I have the full list of ANSI specs. The ANSI specifications also detail other parameters like ignition, warm up phase and limits.

An ANSI M132/M154 ballast will still underdrive a M80 spec bulb. The closest match would be an ANSI S50 ballast but requires a speciality ignitor to be added because the starting parameters are not met.

I was hoping you would respond!! Thank you sir. So on the transformer, it says 3.2a, and 3.3a on m80(line input) . So if the bulb output is actually 2.6a/3.0a, does that mean the m132/m154 transformer itself is burning more current relative to its output?

 

[Reefering1]

I always wondered if a 330w hydroponics eBallast for HPS/CMH/HID would work for a m80 substitute. Never tried it.

My real m80 put out about 330w to the bulb and draw between 352-360w.

Anybody try this one? I am not familiar with C185 ANSI code. It might need an ignitor too.

Advance AS330WQUADVPK 330 Watt Metal Halide Ballast

330 Watts - C185 - Metal Halide Ballast - 120/208/240/277V

www.bulbsdepot.com

Now i may have to put them on a meter to see actual draw/output... I just going on specs and see that it lights them very well. I couldn't see the difference to actual m80's, with my eye. I'll send you one to do some more precise testing if you're interested

 

[Thales]

Have seen (and heard) of some lighting their non-reefs with solar tubes when being redone. Most places aren't really open when the sun is not out. People don't seem to notice any difference when a lionfish or a group of lookdowns swims by on a bright day or a cloudy one. I forget what the huge fish tank at the Denver Aquarium uses over their larger fish tank that runs the whole side of a restaurant, but I think that it is natural only? Smart, it seems.

Yeah, if you are only using light for viewing and not animal health, the sky is a great way to go.

I think you know this, but for anyone not hip to the skinny, Mega reefs that have tried natural light have had major problems when they are not in equatorial areas. Not enough sun throughout the year, and throughout the day. We had some big round windows in the roof that, for some parts of the year, let full sun track across the reef, really messed up the corals...like having several 1000 watt MH bulbs over a 100 gallon tank that came on 'sometimes' with no acclimation. We eventually had to install diffisuer film over the roof lights and even on side windows.
If you can get sunlight to be consistent, that will work.

I have not run 1000w halides in years, but I used to give my used bulbs to a local public display in KC and they would stash them an use them until they burned out.

That is awesome for places using the MH for light, not for growth (again, I know you know this!). Places using MH for reefs have to determine when is the right time for them to make the change, and many choose to do it early to avoid the issues of the intensity of the bulbs being too far apart, which can hurt corals (and depending on the reflector being used, can really damage coral in the brightest part of the beam).

Did you all try the ecoxotic 1000w cannons? Had a dude offer to ship me all that I wanted to try, but he told me to hurry since he might set fire to all of them very soon. I don't think that most folks understand how this segment of the market does not really have a LED replacement worth a darn.

We did, they made great moonlights! They did not have the punch or spread or power for more coral growth coverage. But dang, if you like the bluish moonlight look on a 25 foot tall tank, they rock and throw great glitter lines

Whatchu got stashed out? Asking for a friend! Kidding... mostly, unless you have 14k Phoenix bulbs. I have a bunch of fixtures and wattages that I am never going to use anymore (400w) and I suffer the same dilemma of when to get rid of them. If I wait and then Hamilton drops every wattage in 10, 14 and 20k, HQI ballasts and sleek fixtures like a Spectra/Infiniti, then my stuff is not worth the cost to ship them again. Normal ballasts are already not worth much since hydroponics eBallasts are better anyway, IMO. If Hamilton does not come through and ReefBrite shuts down, then I could have people lining up to take a look.

Get in line like everyone else!!

I am so interested to see what happens in this realm.

 

[jda]

Get in line like everyone else!!

Check out these beauties... For anybody who thinks that ATI makes good T5 bulbs, the UVL Super and White Actinic T5 have colors that will blow your mind.

I need to organize my stuff and get it into some hands of people who can use it. Of course I will hoard anything that I might use.

 

[PaulErik]

The ballast output side needs to tested while the bulb is fully operating and seasoned. I’ve tested many combinations for manufacturers and suppliers but it was years ago. With magnetic ballasts the output current is important. The output voltage will vary and be set by the bulb.

I’m in the middle of installing another large grow out system. Will be using modified S50 ballasts with Radium bulbs for this setup. The output is identical to using a true M80 ballast. I have tested this setup against the original Advance/Philips M80 ballast.

 

[Dmax]

Glad I was able to find the Radiums when I set this up. Ended up getting them from Dave along with another reflector. I already had two reflectors and needed just one more. He really pulled thru and sent me one they had set up as a display sometime ago.

Setting up this tank it was difficult to source the lighting equipment. Most of it I had, but ended up with new ballast and Radium 400w bulbs. Absolutely love the way they light this tank. Man I didn't realize how much I missed this look. Feel like I have a good common ground. Metal halides on for a couple hours a day staggered with the xho's for the led pop in the am and evening time.

Cozumel sun large reflectors
400watt reefbrite ballast
Radium bulbs

 

[Fishy888]

The ballast output side needs to tested while the bulb is fully operating and seasoned. I’ve tested many combinations for manufacturers and suppliers but it was years ago. With magnetic ballasts the output current is important. The output voltage will vary and be set by the bulb.

I’m in the middle of installing another large grow out system. Will be using modified S50 ballasts with Radium bulbs for this setup. The output is identical to using a true M80 ballast. I have tested this setup against the original Advance/Philips M80 ballast.

What modifications are you making by chance? I have icecap ballasts on my halides but I’m looking to buy replacement ballasts just in case. After all, e-ballasts especially aren’t made to last forever exactly.

 

[RedoubtReef]

Check out these beauties... For anybody who thinks that ATI makes good T5 bulbs, the UVL Super and White Actinic T5 have colors that will blow your mind.

I need to organize my stuff and get it into some hands of people who can use it. Of course I will hoard anything that I might use.

I'd like to see what that white actinic looks like. Got pics?

 

[RedoubtReef]

Glad I was able to find the Radiums when I set this up. Ended up getting them from Dave along with another reflector. I already had two reflectors and needed just one more. He really pulled thru and sent me one they had set up as a display sometime ago.

Setting up this tank it was difficult to source the lighting equipment. Most of it I had, but ended up with new ballast and Radium 400w bulbs. Absolutely love the way they light this tank. Man I didn't realize how much I missed this look. Feel like I have a good common ground. Metal halides on for a couple hours a day staggered with the xho's for the led pop in the am and evening time.

Cozumel sun large reflectors
400watt reefbrite ballast
Radium bulbs

that looks really good!

 

[DIYreefer]

Try and convince a Swiftie that cassette is old school or out of style.

My daughter bought a record player for the sole purpose of playing her Taylor Swift records. She's 17, and loves the retro aspect of listening to music on vinyl. I think you are absolutely right, this stuff is definitely making a comeback.

 

[PaulErik]

The S50 ballast should have an OCV (open circuit voltage) above 190 and using a suitable European 220-240V superimposed ignitor. The limitation is the ignitor has to be close to the bulb or the ignitor can not fire the bulb reliably overtime. In this installation the ballasts are remotely located with the ignitors mounted inside electrical boxes near the reflectors.

 

[jda]

Has anybody reached out to Huaquan in China to see what a minimum run of m80s would be? If it is like 500, somebody could probably get rid of those... if 10,000, the that might be tough and could take years.

 

[Z Burn's Reefing]

Check out these beauties... For anybody who thinks that ATI makes good T5 bulbs, the UVL Super and White Actinic T5 have colors that will blow your mind.

I need to organize my stuff and get it into some hands of people who can use it. Of course I will hoard anything that I might use.

The UVL super actinics were incredible...except for they ran so darn hot and I had to change them out every 6 months lol.