Quick Question About Plumbing "Bean Animal" Overflow Into Sump

[Fish Fan]

I answered it already - I said 'I never separate the 2', meaning, that whether the emergency drain or the main drain - both should go into the first chamber. It should be exactly the same - that way water continues to Flow through your sump in the same manner during normal operation and 'emergency'

Thank you very much for your reply!

Is this for the Herbie or Bean Animal or both? Either way, if your emergency line is in use, how would you ever know if it doesn't make noise? The flow through the system would be exactly the same, sure, you'd bypass some parts of your sump or filtration, but flow would keep going, and you'd know you have a problem because you'd hear the water from the emergency pipe.

Maybe I'm old school or maybe I'm delusional, but what I'm saying about the emergency drain making noise makes sense to me. If I go forward with this project, I am at this point looking towards having my two main lines run into my sump, and then having the emergency pipe just dump into my skimmer section. I really think this is correct, and I'm surprised to be getting some ambiguous answer. Maybe I'm not asking my question as cleary as possible.

Thank you all for your help, I really appreciate it!!

 

[Fish Fan]

What's wrong with cups with Floss?

I agree! I hate socks, but I love floss. I just want to replace the socks in anything I do with the little cups that hold floss. I wasn't trying to get that detailed with all my plans in this post, but I have so far agreed with all your comments and suggestions. Thank you for your help here!

 

[tbrown]

I agree! I hate socks, but I love floss. I just want to replace the socks in anything I do with the little cups that hold floss. I wasn't trying to get that detailed with all my plans in this post, but I have so far agreed with all your comments and suggestions. Thank you for your help here!

Again, I like to think this is a place of collaboration. None of us knows everything but we can all contribute if we take the time. Keep asking questions. I know I do!

 

[Fish Fan]

The emergency drain doesn't have water

Until you have a plug up in drain 1 and 2

Of course it will be silent when operating properly. It's empty

Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if many poster here take offense at your tone. "Answer me, answer me"

When it was answered

Wow, kind of rude, when I have been trying to learn throughout this whole thread. And frankly, many of the replies here only half understand my question.

Another member indicated that air may make noise through the emergency drain. I was asking because I've never heard of this (air coming through the emergency line). I do my best to be helpful when I can with others, I was just hoping someone could help me when something is unclear to me.

 

[C_AWOL]

A few samples of what I happen to have photos of from some of my systems. As you can see there's literally nothing special being done or necessary, just a drop straight down where ever in all but 1 situation pictured which is circled in red.
I can't hear water cascading down at full siphon from my tank outside but I can assure you that I will hear that siphon sucking air from inside the house. So having the emergency make "splashing" noises is unnecessary in all ways and forms and will likely just cause additional headaches when water ends up where it shouldn't (which is the emergency drain anyways)

 

[Fish Fan]

Again, I like to think this is a place of collaboration. None of us knows everything but we can all contribute if we take the time. Keep asking questions. I know I do!

Thank you so much for your help! I really appreciate it!

I'm sorry if other members in this thread think they've answered my question completely; they have not. In fact, I don't think many of them understand my very specific question. Perhaps I'm not explaining myself clearly, but I do appreciate you're help.

I know that I do my best to try help new members on other parts of this forum, where I am able to confidently do so. I really didn't think this question would be so long or cause so much confusion and friction. Nor did I hope to upset any R2R members.

I'm pretty sure that the emergency line coming from a Bean Animal style overflow should be positioned in a way that it makes as much noise as possible. Please, @BeanAnimal would you let me know? I've been a fan of yours since the old Reef Central days.

Thank you all very much for your help!

 

[C_AWOL]

There should be sound in this but make sure you don't blow your ears out but I went and victimized my nearest tank.

Approximately 700gph or so going down this drain with air being mixed in. If I increase the flow it will get significantly louder. Keep in mind it isn't even a siphon yet which is significantly worse in noise.

You can run a hose outside into a 5 gallon bucket and compare what sounds louder + worse and decide if it's still necessary for the emergency (when in action) to make any noise as it splashes into the sump.

 

[Fish Fan]

Nope, I'm saying when water does make it's way into the emergency overflow it'll suck a bunch of air with it.

If noise reduction isn't a goal you'll want to ensure that the emergency drain makes even more noise so you can definitely do what you suggested and plumb into the middle section of the sump and let it really cascade in. However, that could also cause some splashing which may not be a huge deal in the basement.

I am so sorry I missed this. I got a little upset with some replies and I missed this, but this is, I think, exactly what I was saying and hoping for! I believe this is the correct setup, I think the emergency overflow must make noise, but now I'm understanding that you're saying that when it's in use (the emergency drain pipe) it will suck air and that will be my audible alarm?

I think I got that. Thank you again for your help, very much appreciate it!

 

[Fish Fan]

There should be sound in this but make sure you don't blow your ears out but I went and victimized my nearest tank.

Approximately 700gph or so going down this drain with air being mixed in. If I increase the flow it will get significantly louder. Keep in mind it isn't even a siphon yet which is significantly worse in noise.

You can run a hose outside into a 5 gallon bucket and compare what sounds louder + worse and decide if it's still necessary for the emergency (when in action) to make any noise as it splashes into the sump.

Brother, I very much appreciate you're replies and help, but I don't think you're getting my question

 

[C_AWOL]

Brother, I very much appreciate you're replies and help, but I don't think you're getting my question

Just so we're on the same page, your question based on my interpretation is "Is it important/better for the emergency drain to make noise as it flows into the sump?" to which my answer and many others are answering "No it's not necessary because when the emergency is active, it will produce a very significant amount of noise that exceeds whatever the cascading noise will produce"

Further examples comparing an emergency drain (reduction in drain size to simulate increased flow) ~700gph

Vs the cascading sound ~2000gph

As you can notice the "cascading" sound isn't significant compared to the horrific gurgling of an emergency drain in action, thus it's not worth the effort to over think this issue as long as the emergency can handle 100% of the returns flow rate if both the main and secondary are downed.

Ps: I genuinely appreciate this discussion since it made me realize that I need to better organize my extra plumbing supplies.

 

[Fish Fan]

Just so we're on the same page, your question based on my interpretation is "Is it important/better for the emergency drain to make noise as it flows into the sump?" to which my answer and many others are answering "No it's not necessary because when the emergency is active, it will produce a very significant amount of noise that exceeds whatever the cascading noise will produce"

Further examples comparing an emergency drain (reduction in drain size to simulate increased flow) ~700gph

Vs the cascading sound ~2000gph

As you can notice the "cascading" sound isn't significant compared to the horrific gurgling of an emergency drain in action, thus it's not worth the effort to over think this issue as long as the emergency can handle 100% of the returns flow rate if both the main and secondary are downed.

Ps: I genuinely appreciate this discussion since it made me realize that I need to better organize my extra plumbing supplies.

Thank you! This is finally the reply that made it 'click' for my old and sometimes dim noggin!

So you are saying, that the third emergency drain is obviously silent when it's not running, but when it does start to run, then it will draw so much air that THE AIR will be my alarm that something is going wrong?

I do very much appreciate your help, I'm sorry if my previous reply seemed rude, but I am sincerely trying to understand this. Your help is very much appreciated; thank you again for your time and help!

 

[19Mateo83]

I built my sump with a kit that had three holes that go into the filter sock area. I ran all 3 pipes into it, the two active drains run all the way to the bottom of the boil box while emergency drain is above the water. I ended up changing out the U on the trickle drain to a T that sets the water height in the overflow box and I also took the U off of my full siphon drain and run it wide open throttled back a bit by the valve. The only noise I hear is water running over the last baffle in the sump. Yes, if the drain clogs, you will hear the emergency drain splashing and making all kings of gurgling noises. Hope this helps.

 

[Fish Fan]

I built my sump with a kit that had three holes that go into the filter sock area. I ran all 3 pipes into it, the two active drains run all the way to the bottom of the boil box while emergency drain is above the water. I ended up changing out the U on the trickle drain to a T that sets the water height in the overflow box and I also took the U off of my full siphon drain and run it wide open throttled back a bit by the valve. The only noise I hear is water running over the last baffle in the sump. Yes, if the drain clogs, you will hear the emergency drain splashing and making all kings of gurgling noises. Hope this helps.

Thank you for your reply and your pics are a big help!

 

[Solo McReefer]

I am so sorry I missed this. I got a little upset with some replies and I missed this, but this is, I think, exactly what I was saying and hoping for! I believe this is the correct setup, I think the emergency overflow must make noise, but now I'm understanding that you're saying that when it's in use (the emergency drain pipe) it will suck air and that will be my audible alarm?

I think I got that. Thank you again for your help, very much appreciate it!

 

[Fish Fan]

I built my sump with a kit that had three holes that go into the filter sock area. I ran all 3 pipes into it, the two active drains run all the way to the bottom of the boil box while emergency drain is above the water. I ended up changing out the U on the trickle drain to a T that sets the water height in the overflow box and I also took the U off of my full siphon drain and run it wide open throttled back a bit by the valve. The only noise I hear is water running over the last baffle in the sump. Yes, if the drain clogs, you will hear the emergency drain splashing and making all kings of gurgling noises. Hope this helps.

I'm looking at this setup more closely, and your emergency pipe is noticeably higher than the other two. This is what I had been thinking when I started this post!! But so many in this thread made me rethink my ideas.

Could I please ask, does that short pipe make noise if it's in use?

Guys, I really thought this would be a quick "ask-and-answered" question. I do appreciate all the help!

 

[C_AWOL]

Thank you! This is finally the reply that made it 'click' for my old and sometimes dim noggin!

So you are saying, that the third emergency drain is obviously silent when it's not running, but when it does start to run, then it will draw so much air that THE AIR will be my alarm that something is going wrong?

I do very much appreciate your help, I'm sorry if my previous reply seemed rude, but I am sincerely trying to understand this. Your help is very much appreciated; thank you again for your time and help!

Yes the air/unusual noise will be your alert that something is wrong in a system running a full siphon as a primary drain when dialed in.

The 2 U shapes in the posters pic above are both the main drain (one with the gate valve for full siphon/main drain) and the other without is the secondary drain (will have a very small amount of water going down so theres no cascading noise in the overflow)

Here is an example from one of my tanks that runs 3 different heights (shortest/top is main, middle is emergency, bottom is secondary)
Ps: DO NOT do what I do and put your ATO feed line in the emergency drain. That was a very temporary thing until I decided where to set my ato reservoir permanently (for anti gravity siphoning)

I put the hydros water sensor in there however to tell me if the emergency ever kicked on while I was away

 

[19Mateo83]

I'm looking at this setup more closely, and your emergency pipe is noticeably higher than the other two. This is what I had been thinking when I started this post!! But so many in this thread made me rethink my ideas.

Could I please ask, does that short pipe make noise if it's in use?

Guys, I really thought this would be a quick "ask-and-answered" question. I do appreciate all the help!

Yes, if the emergency drain is in use it makes a splashing sound along with a gurgling sound as it sucks air. You can see how high above the water it really is.

 

[Fish Fan]

I appreciate your help so much!

I guess that my problem was I expected to hear 'water' running, but now I understand that the 'air' running through the system will make the noise I was hoping for. Epiphone!

Guys, I'm really sorry I was kind of late on board with this, but I think I've got it now I'm also sorry if I seemed rude to anyone, I was just frustrated ;-)

Thank you very much for your help!

 

[19Mateo83]

I appreciate your help so much!

I guess that my problem was I expected to hear 'water' running, but now I understand that the 'air' running through the system will make the noise I was hoping for. Epiphone!

Guys, I'm really sorry I was kind of late on board with this, but I think I've got it now I'm also sorry if I seemed rude to anyone, I was just frustrated ;-)

Thank you very much for your help!

Once you get a bean animal overflow tuned, it’s silent. I only hear the water flowing through my sump, not the drain pipes. That falling water noise in combination of gurgling sound will alert you instantly if the emergency drain is running. Love me some bean animal overflows!
No worries, glad to be able to help out. Happy reefing!

 

[Fish Fan]

Once you get a bean animal overflow tuned, it’s silent. I only hear the water flowing through my sump, not the drain pipes. That falling water noise in combination of gurgling sound will alert you instantly if the emergency drain is running. Love me some bean animal overflows!
No worries, glad to be able to help out. Happy reefing!

Thank you again! For some of us who have been in the hobby off-and-on from the 1980's, I appreciate your help very much.

And, I'm sorry if I didn't *get* what others were saying earlier in this post, but I think I've got it now, and I really do appreciate everyone's help.