Question on anti syphon valve...

[kris2001]

Hello ,I have a question on stopping the backflow siphoning during a power outage I have an external pump that feeds into four outlets into the display tank. Each have locline turning in certain angles for flow regulation.

Everything works well until the power outage happens then the tank siphons enough water to go 6 inch below the rim so if the outage lasts for a long time the Stony corals get affected... On top shelf.

Can I use this to stop the back flow siphoning? Do they work well?
Link below...

Can I put them just above the main external pump? Thx... Last pic is one of the 4 arms feeding the DT.

So do I put the check valve in each of the four outlets or shall I put one check valve right above the main pump? Thx

https://www.lowes.com/pd/AMERICAN-VALVE-PVC-Sch-40-1-in-Socket-PVC-In-line-Check-Valve/1000289421?cm_mmc=shp-_-c-_-prd-_-plb-_-ggl-_-LIA_PLB_142_Pipe-Fittings-_-1000289421-_-local-_-0-_-0&gclsrc=aw.ds&ds_rl=1286981&gclid=Cj0KCQjw8e-gBhD0ARIsAJiDsaWqYIFGOHIt9oAQdg7QgCGvRT1ObjMfuWP7AQc88Emy3mEzIFTy8PQaAoYfEALw_wcB

 

[C4ctus99]

From what I’ve seen on here some people don’t like check valves. If there is any sort of spring or metal in it, it’ll corrode away pretty quick. You also run the risk of crud getting built up in it and it not functioning properly.

How is your return routed?

 

[redfishbluefish]

I would avoid using an inline check valve. You'll simply be waiting for it to fail. If you truly have a siphon where breaking the siphon would stop the back flow, I would highly recommend using Melev's Reef reverse check valve to break the siphon. Here's Mark explaining the use of the valve:

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hello ,I have a question on stopping the backflow siphoning during a power outage I have an external pump that feeds into four outlets into the display tank. Each have locline turning in certain angles for flow regulation.

Everything works well until the power outage happens then the tank siphons enough water to go 6 inch below the rim so if the outage lasts for a long time the Stony corals get affected... On top shelf.

Can I use this to stop the back flow siphoning? Do they work well?
Link below...

Can I put them just above the main external pump? Thx... Last pic is one of the 4 arms feeding the DT.

So do I put the check valve in each of the four outlets or shall I put one check valve right above the main pump? Thx

https://www.lowes.com/pd/AMERICAN-VALVE-PVC-Sch-40-1-in-Socket-PVC-In-line-Check-Valve/1000289421?cm_mmc=shp-_-c-_-prd-_-plb-_-ggl-_-LIA_PLB_142_Pipe-Fittings-_-1000289421-_-local-_-0-_-0&gclsrc=aw.ds&ds_rl=1286981&gclid=Cj0KCQjw8e-gBhD0ARIsAJiDsaWqYIFGOHIt9oAQdg7QgCGvRT1ObjMfuWP7AQc88Emy3mEzIFTy8PQaAoYfEALw_wcB

Install or I should say add a siphon break which is a hole at top of plumbing which will cause flow to stop once it runs down the piping

 

[srobertb]

Options:

1. bump up the return jet so it’s slightly above the water line in a spot. Drill a tiny tiny tiny tiny hole in that spot (1/32 or 1/16 drill bit). Backsiphon will stop.

I am personally using check valves. People are anti-check valve on here. I have sworn them off for 10 years. I am choosing to use them because I want 2 return pumps and only have one plumbing line (it’s a long way from the sump to the tank). These aren’t your cheap little big-box store check valves. They’re a union/type fitting so they can easily be removed and cleaned. They’re also clear so you can see if there is a problem (snail shell, etc).

The brand is Spears I think. BRS or a lot of online supply houses carry them. Buy 2 so you can change them out if need be.

 

[kris2001]

Options:

1. bump up the return jet so it’s slightly above the water line in a spot. Drill a tiny tiny tiny tiny hole in that spot (1/32 or 1/16 drill bit). Backsiphon will stop.

I am personally using check valves. People are anti-check valve on here. I have sworn them off for 10 years. I am choosing to use them because I want 2 return pumps and only have one plumbing line (it’s a long way from the sump to the tank). These aren’t your cheap little big-box store check valves. They’re a union/type fitting so they can easily be removed and cleaned. They’re also clear so you can see if there is a problem (snail shell, etc).

The brand is Spears I think. BRS or a lot of online supply houses carry them. Buy 2 so you can change them out if need be.

Check Valve

Spears makes the highest quality check valves. Use them to add a last line of defense against overflows. Check valves allow one directional water flow and are used to prevent back siphoning. They are commonly used on return pump outputs to prevent water overflowing the sump in the event of a...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

yikes pricey it is!

1” Spears Swing Check Valve - Slip X Slip
SKU: 202431
IN STOCK
$44.43

In my last build, I did exactly what you said, drilled a tiny hole just above water line while main flare was under the line.

It still slowly siphoned till the flare...

Only difference with the small hole was that siphon speed or rate was very slow.

Why does this happen? Was the siphon hole too small?! Pls advice!

 

[PotatoPig]

Check Valve

Spears makes the highest quality check valves. Use them to add a last line of defense against overflows. Check valves allow one directional water flow and are used to prevent back siphoning. They are commonly used on return pump outputs to prevent water overflowing the sump in the event of a...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

yikes pricey it is!

1” Spears Swing Check Valve - Slip X Slip
SKU: 202431
IN STOCK
$44.43

In my last build, I did exactly what you said, drilled a tiny hole just above water line while main flare was under the line.

It still slowly siphoned till the flare...

Only difference with the small hole was that siphon speed or rate was very slow.

Why does this happen? Was the siphon hole too small?! Pls advice!

I found this when I first set up my tank - seems the siphon head is enough to keep siphoning even with an air inlet. The bubbles get drawn down the tubes faster than they can break the siphon unless you drill something like a 1/4” hole (from my test) and even then the siphon didn’t break as soon as the hole was exposed - it still drew a couple gallons into the sump before the bubbles overcame the siphon. And then you have a giant spurt of water coming out the back of the return when the pump is running.

Ended up just setting the return high enough it hits air long before the sump fills up.

 

[kris2001]

So @redfishbluefish posted about MELEV's reverse siphon ... Maybe it works for Mark since Check valve is a quarter inch or more? I'm tempted to try that method... But wonder if I need 2 of those to offset the 4 outlets I have going into the DT?!!

 

[kris2001]

Options:

1. bump up the return jet so it’s slightly above the water line in a spot. Drill a tiny tiny tiny tiny hole in that spot (1/32 or 1/16 drill bit). Backsiphon will stop.

I am personally using check valves. People are anti-check valve on here. I have sworn them off for 10 years. I am choosing to use them because I want 2 return pumps and only have one plumbing line (it’s a long way from the sump to the tank). These aren’t your cheap little big-box store check valves. They’re a union/type fitting so they can easily be removed and cleaned. They’re also clear so you can see if there is a problem (snail shell, etc).

The brand is Spears I think. BRS or a lot of online supply houses carry them. Buy 2 so you can change them out if need be.

Do the check valve need to be vertical only or can they be horizontal?

How long have you had this setup? Pls post pic!

 

[o2manyfish]

Do the check valve need to be vertical only or can they be horizontal?

They can work horizontally or vertically. Gravity flows the water down. The Water flow closes the flap.

If you are relying on a check valve then you have an error in your thinking. They work really well till you need them. Especially in a reef aquarium, there is so much 'life' in the water column that just grows everywhere - even within your plumbing.

If you have 4 outlets in your tank, then adjust them so that the one closest to where the return line comes back to the tank is near the surface and breaks the siphon first.

The siphon break holes work really well. Assuming your return bulkheads are at the top of the tank. They don't have to be on the top of the return pipe, they can be on the side or the bottom of the return pipe (within the tank) to suck air and break the siphon.

The other thing to take into account is you seem to be worried about power failures. There are many reefs around the world where the coral reefs are exposed to the baking sun for half the day when the tide goes out.

While these corals are adjusted to these daily schedules, corals can be out of the water for a considerable amount of time if they AREN'T being baked with light. And in your case the power is out so then the light shouldn't be pounding them. You are probably safe for 90mins to 2 hrs in a dark room without air blowing across the corals to pull the moisture away.

When I ran a coral grow out facility the corals would sit on the work table during fragging for an hour, easily, under warehouse flourescents while they were cut and mounted. And there were not ill effects.

If you are in an area prone to power outages rather than chopping up your plumbing for an unreliable solution, get a really good Computer Server UPS and put just your tank pump on it and get yourself a few hours of back up time.

If you have a really big system, with a big investment in livestock, then invest in an automatic whole home generator. And then all your problems are solved.

I found a slightly use 22kw Generac with an Auto Transfer switch and installed it was a $3500 project. We added an extra 300lb Propane tank, but the Generac is usually on Natural Gas (its a dual fuel). Now whether we are home or not the whole house stays up and running indefinitely.

Dave B

 

[srobertb]

Check Valve

Spears makes the highest quality check valves. Use them to add a last line of defense against overflows. Check valves allow one directional water flow and are used to prevent back siphoning. They are commonly used on return pump outputs to prevent water overflowing the sump in the event of a...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

yikes pricey it is!

1” Spears Swing Check Valve - Slip X Slip
SKU: 202431
IN STOCK
$44.43

In my last build, I did exactly what you said, drilled a tiny hole just above water line while main flare was under the line.

It still slowly siphoned till the flare...

Only difference with the small hole was that siphon speed or rate was very slow.

Why does this happen? Was the siphon hole too small?! Pls advice!

Too small. It’s hard to say but that’s my guess. Just like anything, it’s prone to clog over time too. If your loc-line has a small leak down the line under water, it could drain through there too.

Loc-Line makes spray bar links and you can try inserting one of those in your return line before the nozzle and pointing it above the water line. You’ll need to clean it with a pin as it clogs.

Ultimately anytime you add something you create another point of failure or maintenance item. It’s inevitable.

A small hole in the loc line will clog, a check valve will clog or fail. Both will require maintenance.


I understand the pain. About a 18 months ago I had a return pump die and a large acropora colony had the top 1/4”-1/2” exposed. It recovered if that helps.

 

[srobertb]

They can work horizontally or vertically. Gravity flows the water down. The Water flow closes the flap.

If you are relying on a check valve then you have an error in your thinking. They work really well till you need them. Especially in a reef aquarium, there is so much 'life' in the water column that just grows everywhere - even within your plumbing.

If you have 4 outlets in your tank, then adjust them so that the one closest to where the return line comes back to the tank is near the surface and breaks the siphon first.

The siphon break holes work really well. Assuming your return bulkheads are at the top of the tank. They don't have to be on the top of the return pipe, they can be on the side or the bottom of the return pipe (within the tank) to suck air and break the siphon.

The other thing to take into account is you seem to be worried about power failures. There are many reefs around the world where the coral reefs are exposed to the baking sun for half the day when the tide goes out.

While these corals are adjusted to these daily schedules, corals can be out of the water for a considerable amount of time if they AREN'T being baked with light. And in your case the power is out so then the light shouldn't be pounding them. You are probably safe for 90mins to 2 hrs in a dark room without air blowing across the corals to pull the moisture away.

When I ran a coral grow out facility the corals would sit on the work table during fragging for an hour, easily, under warehouse flourescents while they were cut and mounted. And there were not ill effects.

If you are in an area prone to power outages rather than chopping up your plumbing for an unreliable solution, get a really good Computer Server UPS and put just your tank pump on it and get yourself a few hours of back up time.

If you have a really big system, with a big investment in livestock, then invest in an automatic whole home generator. And then all your problems are solved.

I found a slightly use 22kw Generac with an Auto Transfer switch and installed it was a $3500 project. We added an extra 300lb Propane tank, but the Generac is usually on Natural Gas (its a dual fuel). Now whether we are home or not the whole house stays up and running indefinitely.

Dave B

Generator’s won’t save you from a dead return pump. 18 months or so ago I was in Disney when my return pump died and my 30kw of solar panels and 24kw generator couldn’t do anything to stop a bad power supply. I lost the top part of a large acro colony (it recovered) when my water level dropped around 1/4 to 1/2 of an inch. That’s all it took.

I think check valves absolutely have a use-case in this hobby. I think a siphon break in the loc-line and accounting for the extra water in the sump are best practices but there are some instances where check valves are necessary. They get a bad rap because people use $10 check valves and when they need them to work 3 years down the road they blame them for their flood.

Great check valve, monthly inspection, good maintenance schedule, no problems.

 

[Zos4me]

i used the check valve that was mentioned above in my last tank but i got mine threaded so it could take it apart and clean it as part of regular maintenance.

 

[TheBear78]

@kris2001
Typically a single syphon break at the top is enough to stop the water draining back even with linked, branched nozzles. Your plumbing appears to be set up almost like 4 completely independent return pipes. Does each vertical pipe feed a single outlet? If so, each vertical pipe has the ability to pull it's own syphon so I dont think a single syphon break (hole) will work. Only an NRV at the pump/before the split would do the job if wanting a singular solution.
I don't think NRV's are great as an emergency shut off for the reasons mentioned already but the reverse version (emergency open) is sound. Unfortunately this method (if you do have 4 "independent" pipes) would need an NRV on each return.
This, as ever, is my opinion and is based on what I can see of you plumbing.

 

[kris2001]

The problem I have is I got used to RFGs. I love the variable flow randomly.
Used them many years... Avoids need for extra PHs.

Issue I see is RFG suck in air if base is exposed to air so it sprays bubbles. So I add more locline and keep them submerged thus worsening the siphoning issue... Lol.

Next I'm going to drill 1/16 holes in the extreme return PVC and see at what point it breaks the siphoning.. if I keep the middle two returns elevated higher than the 2 extremes.

So I did my research today and this is what I found, the siphon doesn't break even if I put the middle 2 returns up higher which means I have to do the MELEV's reverse siphon or drill holes...

Here's my video from today

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Hello ,I have a question on stopping the backflow siphoning during a power outage I have an external pump that feeds into four outlets into the display tank. Each have locline turning in certain angles for flow regulation.

Everything works well until the power outage happens then the tank siphons enough water to go 6 inch below the rim so if the outage lasts for a long time the Stony corals get affected... On top shelf.

Can I use this to stop the back flow siphoning? Do they work well?
Link below...

Can I put them just above the main external pump? Thx... Last pic is one of the 4 arms feeding the DT.

So do I put the check valve in each of the four outlets or shall I put one check valve right above the main pump? Thx

https://www.lowes.com/pd/AMERICAN-VALVE-PVC-Sch-40-1-in-Socket-PVC-In-line-Check-Valve/1000289421?cm_mmc=shp-_-c-_-prd-_-plb-_-ggl-_-LIA_PLB_142_Pipe-Fittings-_-1000289421-_-local-_-0-_-0&gclsrc=aw.ds&ds_rl=1286981&gclid=Cj0KCQjw8e-gBhD0ARIsAJiDsaWqYIFGOHIt9oAQdg7QgCGvRT1ObjMfuWP7AQc88Emy3mEzIFTy8PQaAoYfEALw_wcB

So much easier to drill a hole in your loc-line (or whatever you use to return water to your tank). Just drill on the underside as high up as you can and when the water drains to that point, it will break the siphon. Clean out every few months with a toothpick and you're good.

 

[kris2001]

So much easier to drill a hole in your loc-line (or whatever you use to return water to your tank). Just drill on the underside as high up as you can and when the water drains to that point, it will break the siphon. Clean out every few months with a toothpick and you're good.

Will try that. Only issue is,that extra hole will reduce RFG efficiency! but I guess beggers cannot be choosers lol.

How i wish I could insert or glue check valve in the hole so that water doesn't come out but air goes in..!

 

[TheBear78]

o I did my research today and this is what I found, the siphon doesn't break even if I put the middle 2 returns up higher

I think this is what I was saying. You have four vertical return pipes and each will pull a syphon on its own regardless of having the two centre pipes exiting higher so that they pull air before too much water has drained back.
For info, I have a single return pipe exiting through a Y piece into line-loc and two RFG's. I drilled a single 1/8" hole in the Y piece at the 8 o'clock position (looking from the front). Yes, it does squirt out when the pumps kick in and I guess there is a reduction in flow to some degree but it is minimal and more importantly, it does prevent a syphon.

 

[kris2001]

THX, the 1/8 inch hole with a dremel drill worked perfect.... That extra jet added surface agitation too..