Question About Mixing ich cures. Which can you run together?

[ajremington68]

Have a hippo tang who has ich and she's in a 180 with 40 sump and I don't have a large enough tank to pull her and put her into to treat with copper. So I am going the in-tank method to try to help her. So I have a 40w pentair UV tuned for protozoa. I am feeding Marine Spectrum and Formula Two Pellets soaked in Selcon and Vitachem with 5 drops of each and letting soak for about 20 mins then feeding once a day. I soak nori sheets in garlic for 20 minutes as well and feed once a day. She is very active and aggressive eater and it has not lightened up since I got her 3mo ago and she has no ich.

So here is the question I have Polyp Lab Medic coming on Wednesday via Amazon. I plan to run the recommended 10-30 days of that and see what that does. Now, I heard from a LFS guy that he swears by Seachem MetroPlex and Focus to cure ich. Now with this he said he soaks it in food for about 6hrs and doses twice a week. He also noted if water starts turning green to turn off UV.

Question: Can I use Polyp Lab Medic, and Seachem MetroPlex and focus at the same time to double team the ich and fight it? Or is this overkill and might hurt the fish?

From what I have read the Seachem products is a medication they digest and the Polyp Lab Medic targets Ich in the water column while it is free swimming and kills it. Any thoughts?

 

[Fish Fan]

Sorry for what you're experiencing!

I am NOT an expert, but my first thought is to call the real experts in. I think you will get a lot more replies - and faster - if you post this on the R2R section for fish disease:

https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/fish-disease-treatment-and-diagnosis.771/

 

[Fish Fan]

@Jay Hemdal
@MnFish1
@vetteguy53081
@ISpeakForTheSeas

At Fish Medic, I can't find your user name!

I'm not calling out anyone in any particular order, and I'm sorry if I forgot some of you, I'm just thinking of some of the R2R members that could help the OP's Tang.

Best of luck!

 

[Fish Fan]

Again, I am not an expert, but I feel like you are throwing too much at your poor fish with different medications. My thought is that it has to come out of your DT, and needs to be treated in a medicated QT tank, but again, let the experts guide you. It's a holiday night, but I'm just trying to shake up the conversation, and get the R2R experts to notice your post.

I wish you the best of luck with you tank and your tang!

 

[ajremington68]

Again, I am not an expert, but I feel like you are throwing too much at your poor fish with different medications. My thought is that it has to come out of your DT, and needs to be treated in a medicated QT tank, but again, let the experts guide you. It's a holiday night, but I'm just trying to shake up the conversation, and get the R2R experts to notice your post.

I wish you the best of luck with you tank and your tang!

Question if it was you and its a 5-6in hippo tang what is the smallest tank you would out it in too QT with CP?

I am feeling in the end I will have to treat with CP but just am resilient to put a while new system essentially just to qt this one guy. only extra tank I have currently is a 20g

If I have heavy aeration, canister filter, water changes ever 3-4 days could I run the CP for the cycle and the fish make it and go back to the Display or would that small of a tank be a coffin for the fish and kill it?

 

[Fish Fan]

Question if it was you and its a 5-6in hippo tang what is the smallest tank you would out it in too QT with CP?

I am feeling in the end I will have to treat with CP but just am resilient to put a while new system essentially just to qt this one guy. only extra tank I have currently is a 20g

I wish I could help, but I am in the realm of very small tanks, and cannot speak to the care and minimum tank size for your Tang. I tried to raise the alarm for some of our most trusted experts, and I did in fact post a link to this in the fish forum area. Those Reef2Reef members are your best source of guidance. I'm just here to help where I can, and offer best wishes, unfortunately. But this post will get seen by those much more advanced that I am, and they will offer you solid advice, I'm sure. Hang in there

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/repost-can-any-of-you-help-the-op-with-tang-disease.1071205/

 

[eecummins]

none of that is likely to help with marine ich

you need a larger uv and you need to run that 24/7 to help reduce the parasite load

that will help manage the problem indefinitely

if you don’t have corals inverts then 12ppt for 30 days is a viable option

 

[vetteguy53081]

Please post pics of the fish
If ich, place fish in a separate quarantine tank and treat with coppersafe for 30 days at treatment level 2.25 monitored with a Hanna brand copper test kit with added aeration also

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

So here is the question I have Polyp Lab Medic coming on Wednesday via Amazon. I plan to run the recommended 10-30 days of that and see what that does. Now, I heard from a LFS guy that he swears by Seachem MetroPlex and Focus to cure ich. Now with this he said he soaks it in food for about 6hrs and doses twice a week. He also noted if water starts turning green to turn off UV.

Question: Can I use Polyp Lab Medic, and Seachem MetroPlex and focus at the same time to double team the ich and fight it? Or is this overkill and might hurt the fish?

From what I have read the Seachem products is a medication they digest and the Polyp Lab Medic targets Ich in the water column while it is free swimming and kills it. Any thoughts?

My understanding is that this is good in theory, not so effective in practice:

Metronidazole in food needs to be dosed at 5000 ppm. The old joke in public aquariums is that since metro is so bitter, if your fish will eat it in medicated food, your dose is too low (grin).

Jay

In addition to the bitter taste, you have to carefully control the dose in the food to ensure it's not too high or too low.

Polyp Labs Medic, it is a peroxide salt. It fails to work in many cases - the underlying problem is that any medication that is "reef safe" also tends to be "ich safe".

In high enough concentration to be useful against ich, Polyplab Medic is likely to harm inverts in a tank as well.


So, yeah, pulling out and treating with copper or hyposalinity is going to be your best bet if you have inverts/corals (if you don't, then you can run the display hypo to treat it).

Question if it was you and its a 5-6in hippo tang what is the smallest tank you would out it in too QT with CP?

I am feeling in the end I will have to treat with CP but just am resilient to put a while new system essentially just to qt this one guy. only extra tank I have currently is a 20g

If I have heavy aeration, canister filter, water changes ever 3-4 days could I run the CP for the cycle and the fish make it and go back to the Display or would that small of a tank be a coffin for the fish and kill it?

I'd guess a 20 is too small; I'd probably do a 40 at minimum and larger if possible. The filter, aeration, and water changes are a good idea - some extra used filter media and/or a bottle bacteria like Fritz Turbostart 900 may also be a good idea to help with ammonia control.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Question if it was you and its a 5-6in hippo tang what is the smallest tank you would out it in too QT with CP?

I am feeling in the end I will have to treat with CP but just am resilient to put a while new system essentially just to qt this one guy. only extra tank I have currently is a 20g

If I have heavy aeration, canister filter, water changes ever 3-4 days could I run the CP for the cycle and the fish make it and go back to the Display or would that small of a tank be a coffin for the fish and kill it?

40 Breeder best for a fish this size and Polyp Lab Medic at $40 are peroxide salts and rarely if ever works. Im leery on CP but recommended safe chelated form - Coppersafe at 2.25 monitored with a Hanna Copper kit. Canister will work but assure no carbon within.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Have a hippo tang who has ich and she's in a 180 with 40 sump and I don't have a large enough tank to pull her and put her into to treat with copper. So I am going the in-tank method to try to help her. So I have a 40w pentair UV tuned for protozoa. I am feeding Marine Spectrum and Formula Two Pellets soaked in Selcon and Vitachem with 5 drops of each and letting soak for about 20 mins then feeding once a day. I soak nori sheets in garlic for 20 minutes as well and feed once a day. She is very active and aggressive eater and it has not lightened up since I got her 3mo ago and she has no ich.

So here is the question I have Polyp Lab Medic coming on Wednesday via Amazon. I plan to run the recommended 10-30 days of that and see what that does. Now, I heard from a LFS guy that he swears by Seachem MetroPlex and Focus to cure ich. Now with this he said he soaks it in food for about 6hrs and doses twice a week. He also noted if water starts turning green to turn off UV.

Question: Can I use Polyp Lab Medic, and Seachem MetroPlex and focus at the same time to double team the ich and fight it? Or is this overkill and might hurt the fish?

From what I have read the Seachem products is a medication they digest and the Polyp Lab Medic targets Ich in the water column while it is free swimming and kills it. Any thoughts?

Metro and Focus won’t cure ich. External protozoans are not really well treated by oral medications. I ran some major trials of metro in gel diet in 500,000 gallon system back in 1986 and ich was not controlled at 1% in the food and at 2% the fish refused to feed on it.

If you can post clear pics, I can better assess if ich management is even going to work in this case:

"Ich Management"

Because this topic continues to come up, I wanted to create a sticky thread so that it is more easily referenced. Please understand that I am NOT presenting this as an optimum method for controlling marine ich, just putting it out there for people who want to try it. Also, do not pick and...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[ajremington68]

Metro and Focus won’t cure ich. External protozoans are not really well treated by oral medications. I ran some major trials of metro in gel diet in 500,000 gallon system back in 1986 and ich was not controlled at 1% in the food and at 2% the fish refused to feed on it.

If you can post clear pics, I can better assess if ich management is even going to work in this case:

"Ich Management"

Because this topic continues to come up, I wanted to create a sticky thread so that it is more easily referenced. Please understand that I am NOT presenting this as an optimum method for controlling marine ich, just putting it out there for people who want to try it. Also, do not pick and...

www.reef2reef.com

Read your ich management and I did what I didn’t want to. I scoured marketplace and biggest I could find was a 40g for a great deal. Bought it and using ny water change waters from my tanks and going to put in a couple bio bricks from my 180 and start copper. Going to read your articles, but in case I don’t find do you have to put a fish in a qt with copper at 0 and ramp up, or if fish is covered with ich can you start it at 2.5ppm immediately?

 

[ajremington68]

My understanding is that this is good in theory, not so effective in practice:

In addition to the bitter taste, you have to carefully control the dose in the food to ensure it's not too high or too low.

In high enough concentration to be useful against ich, Polyplab Medic is likely to harm inverts in a tank as well.


So, yeah, pulling out and treating with copper or hyposalinity is going to be your best bet if you have inverts/corals (if you don't, then you can run the display hypo to treat it).

I'd guess a 20 is too small; I'd probably do a 40 at minimum and larger if possible. The filter, aeration, and water changes are a good idea - some extra used filter media and/or a bottle bacteria like Fritz Turbostart 900 may also be a good idea to help with ammonia control.

Alrighty thank you for all this info. I got. 40g off marketplace and getting a copper hanna checker and copper power tomorrow. You know off the top of your head how long you have to wait or build up copper for a fish?

 

[ajremington68]

Metro and Focus won’t cure ich. External protozoans are not really well treated by oral medications. I ran some major trials of metro in gel diet in 500,000 gallon system back in 1986 and ich was not controlled at 1% in the food and at 2% the fish refused to feed on it.

If you can post clear pics, I can better assess if ich management is even going to work in this case:

"Ich Management"

Because this topic continues to come up, I wanted to create a sticky thread so that it is more easily referenced. Please understand that I am NOT presenting this as an optimum method for controlling marine ich, just putting it out there for people who want to try it. Also, do not pick and...

www.reef2reef.com

Just read your write up about quarantine protocols. If I am getting copper power does that vary copper safe?

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

You know off the top of your head how long you have to wait or build up copper for a fish?

Just read your write up about quarantine protocols. If I am getting copper power does that vary copper safe?

You don't need to ramp up with chelated copper meds, but Jay suggests doing it in two doses to ensure you get the dosage correct:

I like to add a half dose, let it mix overnight, then test and calculate how much more you need to add to reach a full dose

If you have an accurate test kit / Hanna meter, just dose half the calculated dose, let it mix for a couple of hours, test and then add the second dose based on that reading. The next day, test the tank again to confirm the proper dose. Then, leave the fish in 2.25 copper for 30 days.

Copper Power and Coppersafe are very slightly different doses (specific dosing info for both is listed below, with Copper Power first and Coppersafe second):

Taken from BRS here:

"1.475 mL per gallon = 2.5 ppm"

Copper Power Parasite Treatment

Thanks to its special formulation, Copper Power is one of the safest and yet most effective copper solutions for treatment of external parasites, such as ich and velvet. Copper Power contains a very stable form of copper medication with low levels of precipitation, and thanks to this it is able...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

Edit: To add: each 0.1 ppm would be 0.059 mL/gal.

(Also, for anyone curious with Coppersafe, it's 1.25 mL/gal = 2.5 ppm or 0.05 mL/gal = 0.1 ppm).

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Read your ich management and I did what I didn’t want to. I scoured marketplace and biggest I could find was a 40g for a great deal. Bought it and using ny water change waters from my tanks and going to put in a couple bio bricks from my 180 and start copper. Going to read your articles, but in case I don’t find do you have to put a fish in a qt with copper at 0 and ramp up, or if fish is covered with ich can you start it at 2.5ppm immediately?

I presume you have coppersafe or copper power? If so, you should add a half dose, let it mix for 4 to 6 hours and test. Then, based on the results of that test, add enough copper to bring the level up to 2.25 ppm.

 

[ajremington68]

I presume you have coppersafe or copper power? If so, you should add a half dose, let it mix for 4 to 6 hours and test. Then, based on the results of that test, add enough copper to bring the level up to 2.25 ppm.

I am getting copper power and Hanna checker today, just haven’t used it in about a year so just want to check that they are similar because in your write up, you reference copper safe.

Also have a 40g going up, if I have spots on hippo and tomini should I add them both to the 40? The tomini has maybe 10 spots or less but the hippo is covered. Will also be treating the display with polyp lab medic just because I have it and want to test it for the eradication of the rest of the free floating ich. Could I leave the tomini to see if the medic helps it or should I not waste my time?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I am getting copper power and Hanna checker today, just haven’t used it in about a year so just want to check that they are similar because in your write up, you reference copper safe.

Also have a 40g going up, if I have spots on hippo and tomini should I add them both to the 40? The tomini has maybe 10 spots or less but the hippo is covered. Will also be treating the display with polyp lab medic just because I have it and want to test it for the eradication of the rest of the free floating ich. Could I leave the tomini to see if the medic helps it or should I not waste my time?

You need to be prepared to treat all fish that have been exposed to one that is showing symptoms of ich.

 

[ajremington68]

You need to be prepared to treat all fish that have been exposed to one that is showing symptoms of ich.

I have heard about hyposalinty would I be smart to lower the salinty in the qt tank of no? If so whag should I have it at?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I have heard about hyposalinty would I be smart to lower the salinty in the qt tank of no? If so whag should I have it at?

Here is my post about hyposalinity:

Hyposalinity

Hyposalinity Jay Hemdal 2021 This term refers to a long-term bath treatment for marine fishes in which the salt content of the water is lowered and held below the point that certain parasites can survive. The salt level reached, and the time of the treatment are the two variables...

www.reef2reef.com