Question about marine Ich treatment

[Lurchin_Urchin]

Hey guys,

So I've noticed one of my fish, a royal Gramma, has somehow contracted white spot disease. I have literally no idea how, I quarantine everything, but it's there, and needs to be treated.

It is one of my display tanks, so obviously I need to move all the fish to a quarantine tank and let it go fallow.

This wouldn't be a problem except for my green mandarin that I've had for a few months. I'm honestly not sure what to do with it. The tank he's in has a thriving copepod population and he's happy. It would be practically impossible for me to keep him alive in a quarantine tank, but if he stays in the display tank, it won't be fallow.

I know they're fairly resilient towards cryptocaryon however all it would take is one single parasite to hang around and all the work would be for naught.

He would also not survive a copper treatment.

Anybody have any insight on how to handle this? Or is the mandarin likely going to be a write off? I like the little guy, but I have 8 other fish in that tank I like just as much and I need to make sure they get through this.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hey guys,

So I've noticed one of my fish, a royal Gramma, has somehow contracted white spot disease. I have literally no idea how, I quarantine everything, but it's there, and needs to be treated.

It is one of my display tanks, so obviously I need to move all the fish to a quarantine tank and let it go fallow.

This wouldn't be a problem except for my green mandarin that I've had for a few months. I'm honestly not sure what to do with it. The tank he's in has a thriving copepod population and he's happy. It would be practically impossible for me to keep him alive in a quarantine tank, but if he stays in the display tank, it won't be fallow.

I know they're fairly resilient towards cryptocaryon however all it would take is one single parasite to hang around and all the work would be for naught.

He would also not survive a copper treatment.

Anybody have any insight on how to handle this? Or is the mandarin likely going to be a write off? I like the little guy, but I have 8 other fish in that tank I like just as much and I need to make sure they get through this.

First - are you 100% sure it is ich?
If the spots are few in number, you could try some aggressive ich management first…

"Ich Management"

Because this topic continues to come up, I wanted to create a sticky thread so that it is more easily referenced. Please understand that I am NOT presenting this as an optimum method for controlling marine ich, just putting it out there for people who want to try it. Also, do not pick and...

www.reef2reef.com

Mandarins tolerate coppersafe, but you’re right, they just don’t do well in bare QT.

 

[Lavey29]

Can you keep the other fish except the mandarin out of the display tank for 45 days while you copper treat them?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hey guys,

So I've noticed one of my fish, a royal Gramma, has somehow contracted white spot disease. I have literally no idea how, I quarantine everything, but it's there, and needs to be treated.

It is one of my display tanks, so obviously I need to move all the fish to a quarantine tank and let it go fallow.

This wouldn't be a problem except for my green mandarin that I've had for a few months. I'm honestly not sure what to do with it. The tank he's in has a thriving copepod population and he's happy. It would be practically impossible for me to keep him alive in a quarantine tank, but if he stays in the display tank, it won't be fallow.

I know they're fairly resilient towards cryptocaryon however all it would take is one single parasite to hang around and all the work would be for naught.

He would also not survive a copper treatment.

Anybody have any insight on how to handle this? Or is the mandarin likely going to be a write off? I like the little guy, but I have 8 other fish in that tank I like just as much and I need to make sure they get through this.

Agree on confirming ich and a universal treatment would be General cure and I believe chloroquine Phosphate

 

[Lurchin_Urchin]

First - are you 100% sure it is ich?
If the spots are few in number, you could try some aggressive ich management first…

"Ich Management"

Because this topic continues to come up, I wanted to create a sticky thread so that it is more easily referenced. Please understand that I am NOT presenting this as an optimum method for controlling marine ich, just putting it out there for people who want to try it. Also, do not pick and...

www.reef2reef.com

Mandarins tolerate coppersafe, but you’re right, they just don’t do well in bare QT.

It definitely looks like it from my experience. I've noticed the other fish are starting to get white spots on their fins as well. Though they're nowhere near to the extent that the Gramma has.

 

[Lurchin_Urchin]

Can you keep the other fish except the mandarin out of the display tank for 45 days while you copper treat them?

I could, but if I'm going to QT the rest then I'd like to just go ahead and go for Ich eradication. The mandarin could potentially get it even though they're very resistant, which would make QT and treating the rest of them a lost cause.

 

[Lavey29]

I could, but if I'm going to QT the rest then I'd like to just go ahead and go for Ich eradication. The mandarin could potentially get it even though they're very resistant, which would make QT and treating the rest of them a lost cause.

I think Jay will chime but if the mandarin sits in their for 45 days and doesn't get ich then the problem is controlled. I'm one of those that believes ich is in every tank and as long as fish are healthy their immune systems keep it at bay. Stress events cause their immune systems to weaken

 

[Lurchin_Urchin]

I think Jay will chime but if the mandarin sits in their for 45 days and doesn't get ich then the problem is controlled. I'm one of those that believes ich is in every tank and as long as fish are healthy their immune systems keep it at bay. Stress events cause their immune systems to weaken

If that's the case, it would save me some grief. I know my friend who runs the LFS would take it, probably give me a bunch of store credit to make up for it, but like I said, I like it and it's doing really well. It'd be a shame to get rid of it.

 

[Lavey29]

If that's the case, it would save me some grief. I know my friend who runs the LFS would take it, probably give me a bunch of store credit to make up for it, but like I said, I like it and it's doing really well. It'd be a shame to get rid of it.

Their heavy mucus coats protect them

 

[AetherealKnight]

I disagree with the idea that ich is in every tank. Through rigorous and strict quarantine protocol it is possible to have a clean tank.

But if you meant that most tanks have ich due to lack of qt and doing ich management instead, then yeah I agree with you and that a decent majority take that route than doing those painful quarantines.

 

[Tamberav]

I would hatch live brine for the mandarin in quarantine. Not sure how fast copper kills them, hopefully they can wiggle just long enough.

This is also another food they generally like:

Coral Feast Ova

New coral reef food blend. Highly nutritional blend of whole organism zooplankton eggs (ova) of various species. Hatching coral food.

www.aquaculturenurseryfarms.com

Copper does suppress the appetite though.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I think Jay will chime but if the mandarin sits in their for 45 days and doesn't get ich then the problem is controlled. I'm one of those that believes ich is in every tank and as long as fish are healthy their immune systems keep it at bay. Stress events cause their immune systems to weaken

I’ve always said that mandarins are “ich resistant” however there are images in a fisheries veterinary manual of microscopic sections of a mandarin that died from ich, with no mention of that being unusual to see, so I’m concerned that they can develop ich to the point of being able to carry the infection on.

I’d say this is a good case for running TTM on the mandarin and getting it into another good tank for the duration of the fallow period.

 

[Lurchin_Urchin]

I’ve always said that mandarins are “ich resistant” however there are images in a fisheries veterinary manual of microscopic sections of a mandarin that died from ich, with no mention of that being unusual to see, so I’m concerned that they can develop ich to the point of being able to carry the infection on.

I’d say this is a good case for running TTM on the mandarin and getting it into another good tank for the duration of the fallow period.

This was my understanding as well. They are less susceptible, but can still get the parasite.

Based on the picture, would you agree with Ich? It's been going on for several days, so I'd think velvet would have spread much faster by this point. I may attempt TTM for the mandarin and see how it goes.

 

[Lavey29]

I’ve always said that mandarins are “ich resistant” however there are images in a fisheries veterinary manual of microscopic sections of a mandarin that died from ich, with no mention of that being unusual to see, so I’m concerned that they can develop ich to the point of being able to carry the infection on.

I’d say this is a good case for running TTM on the mandarin and getting it into another good tank for the duration of the fallow period.

You mentioned in another thread about leaving a fish in the tank that had disease killed other fish.

". I think if you wait 60 days with no sign of disease, you can consider the tank “clean”

Wouldn't this also apply to the mandarin especially since it is more disease resistant.

 

[Lavey29]

I disagree with the idea that ich is in every tank. Through rigorous and strict quarantine protocol it is possible to have a clean tank.

But if you meant that most tanks have ich due to lack of qt and doing ich management instead, then yeah I agree with you and that a decent majority take that route than doing those painful quarantines.

Nope, I think it is in every tank in some form albeit a dormant state until some stress event makes it active. The clearest evidence are the numerous threads on here where experienced reefers do extensive QT prior to adding a fish, typically some sort of tang only to see spots develop. Now if the tank is healthy and the fish immune systems strong, this infection can be remedied usually in the early stage.

 

[Lurchin_Urchin]

Nope, I think it is in every tank in some form albeit a dormant state until some stress event makes it active. The clearest evidence are the numerous threads on here where experienced reefers do extensive QT prior to adding a fish, typically some sort of tang only to see spots develop. Now if the tank is healthy and the fish immune systems strong, this infection can be remedied usually in the early stage.

I'm now on the fence with this. I truly believed my tank was disease free, and I still have no idea how I could have introduced Ich. But it's there now.

I didn't have enough copper to properly dose last night so I have to go grab some after work today. Otherwise the quarantine tank is ready for them as soon as I can get the meds.

Editing to add, the Gramma has a lot less spots on it today so I'm assuming a bunch of Trophonts dropped off overnight.

 

[Lurchin_Urchin]

I’ve always said that mandarins are “ich resistant” however there are images in a fisheries veterinary manual of microscopic sections of a mandarin that died from ich, with no mention of that being unusual to see, so I’m concerned that they can develop ich to the point of being able to carry the infection on.

I’d say this is a good case for running TTM on the mandarin and getting it into another good tank for the duration of the fallow period.

Wanted to also ask, how small of tanks do you think I could get away with for doing TTM with only the mandarin? I'm genuinely low on space, and very short on time, but if it was two 5-10gal tanks I may be able to swing it.

The logistics of keeping saltwater mixed, sanitizing everything every 2-3 days, etc adds up.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

You mentioned in another thread about leaving a fish in the tank that had disease killed other fish.

". I think if you wait 60 days with no sign of disease, you can consider the tank “clean”

Wouldn't this also apply to the mandarin especially since it is more disease resistant.

Yes - if it for sure had no trophonts on it during that time. Each case can be a bit different though.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

This was my understanding as well. They are less susceptible, but can still get the parasite.

Based on the picture, would you agree with Ich? It's been going on for several days, so I'd think velvet would have spread much faster by this point. I may attempt TTM for the mandarin and see how it goes.

The gramma does have ich not velvet. It's possible for fish to have both infections at the same time, but that is fairly rare. Not eating and rapid breathing would indicate velvet could be involved.

 

[Lurchin_Urchin]

The gramma does have ich not velvet. It's possible for fish to have both infections at the same time, but that is fairly rare. Not eating and rapid breathing would indicate velvet could be involved.

Gotcha. I noticed that after a day or so it's white spots would decrease, and then reappear. He was also acting a bit too normal for it to be velvet.

I got them all into quarantine and added the copper.

I put the mandarin in a separate tank and am going to try and do TTM with it. I got a ton of copepods and phyto, also going to try and start a copepod tank, I'll just load the tank down with new pods every time I switch it.