Question about Artificial Coral Inserts & Bacteria

[J-West]

I am contemplating standing up a 220 gallon FISH ONLY tank because I want to be able to finally house some of the larger tangs, triggers, angels and eels that are not reef safe.
I also want to have some "color" in the tank, and some semblance of a real reef for the fish - so I was thinking of getting one of those "artificial coral inserts" to go across the entire length of the back of the tank.
My question is: if I don't have any live or dry rock in the tank, will the tank be able to grow and maintain enough bacteria to support the bio-load of all of these large fish?
(I know that some of you don't like artificial coral, so before I get bashed and flamed, I do have another tank that is a "real reef" with real live rock and real coral. I just want to add some color to this larger tank that will be fish only).

 

[melypr1985]

my thoughts would be that you'll need the live rock for the biological. That's the most important part of your filtration IME. The fake insert will be cool, but what's stopping you from having live rock in front of it some? They will need hiding places besides the back wall, so there's no real reason you couldn't do both.

Oh and there will be NO flaming here. We don't like that on R2R.

 

[Blacktank]

I agree, live Rock is important for not just the stubilty of the tank but to help keep stress down on your fish. Give them a natural habitat.

 

[Kentech5]

I am contemplating standing up a 220 gallon FISH ONLY tank because I want to be able to finally house some of the larger tangs, triggers, angels and eels that are not reef safe.
I also want to have some "color" in the tank, and some semblance of a real reef for the fish - so I was thinking of getting one of those "artificial coral inserts" to go across the entire length of the back of the tank.
My question is: if I don't have any live or dry rock in the tank, will the tank be able to grow and maintain enough bacteria to support the bio-load of all of these large fish?
(I know that some of you don't like artificial coral, so before I get bashed and flamed, I do have another tank that is a "real reef" with real live rock and real coral. I just want to add some color to this larger tank that will be fish only).

Personally I would feel better about it with a large sump and a large amount of live rock. I suppose you could try some Marine Pure or xPort blocks since they are supposed to be able to hold a large amount of bacteria.

 

[lion king]

You may want to incorporate some rock to at least make some caves for some of the fish you are interested in; not only will the fish sleep in them but will find comfort. Angels and triggers swim through the rocks and hang out in caves. An eel will also need a cave or 2 unless you are getting an eel that would be comfortable in a pvc home, definitely not natural looking at all.

As far as biological filtration you can always put live rock or some of the other biological filtration media in your sump, personally I like seachem matrix.

 

[J-West]

my thoughts would be that you'll need the live rock for the biological. That's the most important part of your filtration IME. The fake insert will be cool, but what's stopping you from having live rock in front of it some? They will need hiding places besides the back wall, so there's no real reason you couldn't do both.

Oh and there will be NO flaming here. We don't like that on R2R.

OK... Thanks for the info. I will plan to incorporate some dry rock to go along with the insert. I definitely want the tank to be able to handle a heavy bio-load because I'm planning to put some pretty big fish in it.

 

[J-West]

You may want to incorporate some rock to at least make some caves for some of the fish you are interested in; not only will the fish sleep in them but will find comfort. Angels and triggers swim through the rocks and hang out in caves. An eel will also need a cave or 2 unless you are getting an eel that would be comfortable in a pvc home, definitely not natural looking at all.

As far as biological filtration you can always put live rock or some of the other biological filtration media in your sump, personally I like seachem matrix.

Great call out. I definitely want to create some caves and hiding spaces for the fish and the eel so that everybody feels happy and secure.

 

[oldpaddy]

I work on tanks part time. I used to work on a 300gal+ Fish only system that had few large fake coral and rock structures. This system had large fish and was borderline over stocked. Every two weeks I'd take out the structures and corals and bleach them clean. I never had an issue with the system re-cycling.
So as long as the system is established, I don't think you'll have a problem with bacteria. Especially if you're not removing the plastic structures and cleaning them. Though I think you'll find that you will be removing them and scrubbing them clean now and again.

 

[J-West]

Thanks @melypr1985, @oldpaddy, @Blacktank, @lion king and @Kentech5
So would it be true that a FOWLR tank with several large fish would require more robust filtration than a mixed reef system (fish and coral) of the same size ?

 

[brandon429]

We deal in excess surface area in marine tanks

Rarely are we under par for active surface area, super rare. Your coral inserts still count as active surface area and do help nicely.

I predict that a sump with any form of floss, bioballs, marine pure or siporax will run your fish only setup without free ammonia concerns once it's cycled and can digest a few ppm ammonia in a day

The robust filtration is more for keeping wastes suspended and avail for removal vs sinking up in the tank somewhere

A proven digested bioload of 2-3 ppm in 24 hrs will work for your setup and likely even less but at that rate it is good to go


The show 'tanked' is fifty tangs, no live rock, coral inserts and pre cycled biomedia in sumps and canister filters. They sell the setups you describe.

 

[melypr1985]

Thanks @melypr1985, @oldpaddy, @Blacktank, @lion king and @Kentech5
So would it be true that a FOWLR tank with several large fish would require more robust filtration than a mixed reef system (fish and coral) of the same size ?

I think the point is that just because you only have fish in your system, that doesn't mean you can skimp on the live rock and filtration.

 

[oldpaddy]

I think the point is that just because you only have fish in your system, that doesn't mean you can skimp on the live rock and filtration.

Not to disagree, but I'm not sure that's entirely true. The system I mentioned in my previous post had no protein skimmer nor did it have any live rock. The fish were fed 2-4 frozen cubes a day and the n03 was around 10-20ppm on average. I'd do a water change every 2 weeks. There were bio balls in the sump.
I'm not saying I'd setup a system in such a manner, but you can.

 

[melypr1985]

Not to disagree, but I'm not sure that's entirely true. The system I mentioned in my previous post had no protein skimmer nor did it have any live rock. The fish were fed 2-4 frozen cubes a day and the n03 was around 10-20ppm on average. I'd do a water change every 2 weeks. There were bio balls in the sump.
I'm not saying I'd setup a system in such a manner, but you can.

Of Course! Anything is possible if planned out correctly. Though, I'm not going to advise anybody to set up their tank that way. The live rock would supply more than filtration to the tank... like hiding places for the animals planned for the tank.

 

[oldpaddy]

Of Course! Anything is possible if planned out correctly. Though, I'm not going to advise anybody to set up their tank that way. The live rock would supply more than filtration to the tank... like hiding places for the animals planned for the tank.

I agree with you. This was an old system that was very functional. Occasionally I'd find old pennies buried in the substrate. Old school tank.
I absolutely hated pulling out the plastic decor and bleaching it. I always feared I'd show up the following week to a dead tank.