Quarantining: The pros & cons

[Humblefish]

What is this about swimming into the powerhead flow?

Behavioral symptom of Marine Velvet Disease: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/velvet-amyloodinium-ocellatum.217570/

Also, is there a better option that copper?

Chloroquine phosphate: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/chloroquine-phosphate.192309/

I see people saying velvet is a big problem these days, now I'm afraid to buy more fish once my QT is ready to go, I plan on getting a larger cuc for my big tank and at least one or 2 will go into the biocube. I'm also getting 2 tangs when the QT is cycled. I planned on observing them for at least month, is this enough? What should I watch for? what should I have on hand just in case? I can easily feed healthy immune boosting diet, any suggestions on an easy way to do that too? I feed NLS, I know it has garlic but I also know most prefer frozen food over dry.

I think for a passive observation QT, using black mollies is wise: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/freshwater-black-mollies-vs-marine-fish-diseases.312166/

A freshwater black molly will have no immunity whatsoever to marine diseases, thus making it probable for visible symptoms to show. By QTing black mollies alongside, this allows you to use them as "canary fish" to detect the presence of disease even if none of the other fish in QT are showing symptoms. This can be done via observation in a medication-free environment.

 

[ReefWithCare]

It's just a matter of when, not if.

By the time you start selling I’ll probably have my tank stocked [emoji29].

Also would a molly get bullied by just about anything you add in a QT?

 

[HotRocks]

By the time you start selling I’ll probably have my tank stocked [emoji29].

Also would a molly get bullied by just about anything you add in a QT?

I already told you it's not me.

But very soon my friend

 

[squampton]

Unless they seek me out, most LFS owners/employees don't like getting advice from customers IME. I've learned to refrain from pointing out ich, velvet, etc. in their systems because I don't usually feel welcomed in their shop after that.

Too bad your store isn't more receptive to customer feedback. My local store has no issue with customers pointing something out, they know they may not see every fish every time they do their twice a day visual exam of the tanks and fish.

Luckily for the most part, I have not had issues with sick fish from this store, I do QT and I expect my luck will run out eventually.

 

[Humblefish]

Too bad your store isn't more receptive to customer feedback. My local store has no issue with customers pointing something out, they know they may not see every fish every time they do their twice a day visual exam of the tanks and fish.

Luckily for the most part, I have not had issues with sick fish from this store, I do QT and I expect my luck will run out eventually.

To be fair, running a LFS is a lot of hard work/time consuming. You get into a routine (or sometimes a rut), and don't want anyone telling you something which means more work. Also, most LFS owners have a certain way of doing everything and don't like change. Especially if they feel that things are going fine.

I'm wired a little differently. I'm never happy/satisfied, always looking for ways to improve, etc. People who know me will you tell you I'm my own worst critic. So I guess I have a hard time just letting something I feel is wrong go sometimes...

 

[cancun]

To be fair, running a LFS is a lot of hard work/time consuming. You get into a routine (or sometimes a rut), and don't want anyone telling you something which means more work. Also, most LFS owners have a certain way of doing everything and don't like change. Especially if they feel that things are going fine.

I'm wired a little differently. I'm never happy/satisfied, always looking for ways to improve, etc. People who know me will you tell you I'm my own worst critic. So I guess I have a hard time just letting something I feel is wrong go sometimes...

I can totally relate to that! I frequent three LFS I really like in my area.....there are a lot more but I only buy from these 3....but there is only one that I feel comfortable enough pointing things like that out.....and that is because I am good friends with the owner, and the store manager!

 

[DieHardPhotog-Reefer]

First of all there are many much more qualified fish keepers on here than me, but here are my steps to getting fish in and carrying for them. Most of my fish come from LA or DD. They arrive at my place of work around 10am. The are drip acclimated for at least a 1/2 hour, depending on the size. Since I mostly have tangs and angelfish they go through a 5 to 20 minute FW bath. Then into regular seawater with from my 65 gallon tank here at work which I then add prazi-pro to where they will remain for about six hours till I get home and place them in a 29 gallon tank with a foam air filter, power head, heater, and most times liverock. They will stay in there for 4+ weeks. I do not have any copper or prazi in the 29. So why keep them in there? Well LA and DD do have a 2 week guarantee. If a fish dies it is easy to scoop out and send pictures to LA or DD. If they where added to my 180 or 65 I would never find them nor would I get my refund. Plus the 29 is in a quiet room where I am the only person that sees and feeds them. I have attached a picture of a Flame Wrasse that was in the Qt and now resides in my 180.

And now in the 180

In closing I have lost fish years ago because I gambled and thought I/my fish where invincible, no more.

I'm assuming LA is Live Aquaria but I'm not sure who "DD" might be? I'm in the market for about 6-10 different fish a new source other than LFS and LA would be helpful. Thanks!

 

[ReefWithCare]

I'm assuming LA is Live Aquaria but I'm not sure who "DD" might be? I'm in the market for about 6-10 different fish a new source other than LFS and LA would be helpful. Thanks!

You should check out Exotic Fish N Tanks located in TX. He mostly deals with rare or show size fish. Really passionate guy who deals only with WYSIWYG fish

https://m.facebook.com/Xoticfishntanks/

 

[HotRocks]

I'm assuming LA is Live Aquaria but I'm not sure who "DD" might be? I'm in the market for about 6-10 different fish a new source other than LFS and LA would be helpful. Thanks!

DD is Divers Den on Live Aquaria. They are WYSIWYG. And somewhat QTd supposedly. I still QT Any DD fish I receive, using my normal protocol. It is a good source to use for certain fish, like paticularly finicky eaters, because they usually arrive eating well. Not always but usually.

Also the WYSIWYG part is nice for certain species that can vary so much from fish to fish in appearance.

 

[DieHardPhotog-Reefer]

You should check out Exotic Fish N Tanks located in TX. He mostly deals with rare or show size fish. Really passionate guy who deals only with WYSIWYG fish

https://m.facebook.com/Xoticfishntanks/

Thanks, we're going to check them out now.

 

[ScooterV]

I already told you it's not me.

But very soon my friend

It's like waiting for Christmas

 

[DieHardPhotog-Reefer]

DD is Divers Den on Live Aquaria. They are WYSIWYG. And somewhat QTd supposedly. I still QT Any DD fish I receive, using my normal protocol. It is a good source to use for certain fish, like paticularly finicky eaters, because they usually arrive eating well. Not always but usually.

Also the WYSIWYG part is nice for certain species that can vary so much from fish to fish in appearance.

Thanks!!! I didn't realize about DD's QT process. We're on the LA waiting list for a few of the fish we specifically want but already have two 7.5 gal tanks and one 20 gal tank cycled & ready for QT.

 

[HotRocks]

Thanks!!! I didn't realize about DD's QT process. We're on the LA waiting list for a few of the fish we specifically want but already have two 7.5 gal tanks and one 20 gal tank cycled & ready for QT.

I have received fish from DD with ich, velvet, flukes, bacterial infections. So as long as you are still QTing them yourself, you will likely have better luck with a DD fish.

 

[Lasse]

I´m surprised that a person working in an public aquaria says that stress does not kill fish and then only speak about parasites - not bacteria. There is few bacteria that´s always make an lethal disease as BKD in salmon but a lot of bacteria - including vibrio of different strains that can be lethal if the fish is stressed but tolerated during normal conditions. Investigation of parasite infections and vaccine in fish farming has also shown that fish can be immune to parasites.

Here is a link to a book that take up stress in fishes in all aspects - including diseases. At least a public aquarian can afford to purchase that book.
From the preface of the chapter

The endocrine-immune relationship of fish, particularly related to the stress response, is mediated by the close interaction of hormones and cytokines. In essence, stress can depress certain elements of the immune system and render fish vulnerable to infection and disease. This chapter summarizes the effects of stressors on disease resistance and the immune system and updates the knowledge on endocrine regulation of the immune system in fish, the effects at systemic and local levels, and the organization of the immune responses under stressed conditions, with special emphasis on the roles of hormones, their receptors, and system interactions. Basically, low levels of severity of stress (eustress) may lead to enhanced immune competence while greater severities tend to be immunosuppressive. The immune response to stressors are mediated by the endocrine system at both central and peripheral levels.

I´ll think they can afford to purchase this book too From the abstract to chapter 8

Abstract
Intensive fish farming favors chronic stress as a result of high densities, suboptimal physical environment, and muted social interactions. The hypothalamus–pituitary–interrenal (HPI) axis response to regain homeostasis compromises the immune system, increases vulnerability to disease, and reduces growth. However, early conditioning to stress offers the potential to early reprogramming of behavior and metabolism so as to minimize the impact of stress later in life. The use of nonintrusive monitoring methods based on behavior and physiology offers a practical way to minimize or abolish sources of stress. Although some markers of stress-responsive immune genes are known, more studies are required to understand their role and mechanisms of action and to extend this information to other potential markers. A key area for future research is the understanding of the interactions between the HPI and growth axes and the immune system.

And the earlier linked article about nutrient and immune system is more or less a prove that @Paul B is basically right in his approach with feeding his aquaria

I´m sorry for this massiv post but there is tons of information of stress and diseases in fish out there - the earliest I seen is a book from THF back in 1982 - introduction to fish physiology by Dr. Lynwood.S.Smith.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[ca1ore]

I've had more issues with velvet this year than in all the year prior combined (and it's a lot). Recently lost fish in one QT and also in a second QT underneath it (note to self: don't stack QT tanks). Would have been exponentially worse had those fish not been quarantined.

 

[Humblefish]

I've had more issues with velvet this year than in all the year prior combined (and it's a lot). Recently lost fish in one QT and also in a second QT underneath it (note to self: don't stack QT tanks). Would have been exponentially worse had those fish not been quarantined.

I'm seeing velvet, uronema, gram-negative bacterial infections in every shipment. Kinda makes me miss Cryptocaryon.

 

[Brew12]

I'm seeing velvet, uronema, gram-negative bacterial infections in every shipment. Kinda makes me miss Cryptocaryon.

Uronema is becoming that common now, too?

 

[Humblefish]

Uronema is becoming that common now, too?

Yup, mainly on anthias, angels, butterflies... and of course chromis. I scraped the first uronema I have ever seen on a wrasse last shipment (thought it was just an infection). A LFS in NJ I advise has been seeing uronema on wrasses too; a MB friend did a scope ID.

 

[Rython]

@Humblefish I know you have been running a lot of fish through QT lately. About what percentage of fish you receive come in with a disease that needs to be treated in QT? My experience this year has been that around 60% of the fish i've purchased were diseased. I wonder if i've just been unlucky or if your experience has been similar.

 

[DieHardPhotog-Reefer]

I've had more issues with velvet this year than in all the year prior combined (and it's a lot). Recently lost fish in one QT and also in a second QT underneath it (note to self: don't stack QT tanks). Would have been exponentially worse had those fish not been quarantined.

Oh crap... That's how we have our QT tanks now. There's a rubber mat dividing the two but it's a typical metal tank stand for 2 twenty gallon tanks. We divided them in half with glass & silicone for more individual tank space. I guess that was not such a good idea after all.