Quarantined clownfish - Copper power and salifert?

[AnotherGrey]

Hello guys.

I'm a complete newbie to fishkeeping, despite having a group of 5 sexy shrimps for a while. I've got my pair of clownfish (4-5 cm) 3 days ago, and I did follow the protocol from humble fish.

I started with drip acclimation in 45 minutes, followed by a 45-minute formalin bath which had been heavily aerated for 30 minutes beforehand. Afterwards, I dosed the QT with 2.00 ppm copper power (1.18 ml per gallon). Fyi, the QT tank is roughly 25 litre with no porous media. Just a sponge filter and a bunch of media balls, a few PVC pipes, an airstone, a pump, a seachem alert badge for ammonia, and a chiller to keep the tank's temperature stable at 26 degree Celcius. I didn't feed my clowns in the first 24h.

Over the last two days, I've dosed 0.17ml of copper power twice a day, aiming to get a total of 9.77ml for my 25-litre tank. Yesterday, the fish ate a few live krills, but chased and spat out the pellets that I fed them. (They're small, so I made ground the pellets before feeding them to my clowns). I looked it up, and people said it's a normal behavior for new clowns.



Today, after attempting to feed the pair, they both refused to eat the live krills. I tried feeding them the nori, hikari waffle, ground pellets, but to no avail. I'm buying the pellets that the lfs was using for them in hope of getting them to eat again.



I'm very worried. My salinity is 1.025, temperature at around 26-27 degree celcius, slight detection of ammonia due to copper power, no NO2 because I cycled my tank for 21 days with a bottled bacteria, and I did make a 50% change of Ro/di salt water (blue treasure) before adding the copper and the fish, so NO3 shouldn't be a problem. What's bothering me the most is that I'm currently using Salifert coz the lfs recommended it, but I didn't know that it can't read anything above 2.5, so I could only follow the recommend dosage. Should I get a Hanna HR for copper (which is wayyy out of my budget atm, and the reagent can only be used 6 times.)

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

Th Salifert kit is best used with ionic copper like Cupramine. It reads up to 2.0 mg/l but Copper Power should be dosed at 2.25 mg/l. The Hanna high range tester works better.

Are you waiting the full 20 minute reaction time that they say to do when testing chelated copper?

Another trick is to take a known amount of the tank water to be tested, perhaps half a cup, and mix it with the exact same amount of freshly mixed saltwater with NO copper added. Mix well and test that. Multiplying the result by 2 will give you a good estimate of the actual copper reading, even if it is out of range.

Something else could be going on here though - can you test for ammonia using a second test type to try and confirm the level? Also, if you can post a video, we might see something.

Although it probably is not the issue here, giving fish a formalin dip when you first get them is really stressful and should be avoided. For sure never do this for fish that were shipped to you. Also, many people give a formalin dose higher than should be used. The highest dose that should be used on tropical marine fish is 167 ppm for 45 minutes with good aeration. Finally, formalin is toxic to people, I tell folks to always use personal protection, and work with it outdoors if you can.

Jay

 

[SnazzyUrchin792]

Are you waiting the full 20 minute reaction time that they say to do when testing chelated copper?

What do you mean by this?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

What do you mean by this?

Their instructions say that when using with strongly chelated copper, to increase the test reaction time from 10 to 20 minutes.

 

[AnotherGrey]

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

Th Salifert kit is best used with ionic copper like Cupramine. It reads up to 2.0 mg/l but Copper Power should be dosed at 2.25 mg/l. The Hanna high range tester works better.

Are you waiting the full 20 minute reaction time that they say to do when testing chelated copper?

Another trick is to take a known amount of the tank water to be tested, perhaps half a cup, and mix it with the exact same amount of freshly mixed saltwater with NO copper added. Mix well and test that. Multiplying the result by 2 will give you a good estimate of the actual copper reading, even if it is out of range.

Something else could be going on here though - can you test for ammonia using a second test type to try and confirm the level? Also, if you can post a video, we might see something.

Although it probably is not the issue here, giving fish a formalin dip when you first get them is really stressful and should be avoided. For sure never do this for fish that were shipped to you. Also, many people give a formalin dose higher than should be used. The highest dose that should be used on tropical marine fish is 167 ppm for 45 minutes with good aeration. Finally, formalin is toxic to people, I tell folks to always use personal protection, and work with it outdoors if you can.

Jay

Thank you for the thorough reply and your concern regarding formalin. Thanks to the threads written by you on r2r, I was fortunately well aware of the risks, so I did give them a formalin bath outdoors and was fully covered and equipped with 2 layers of N95 face masks, a face shield, a helmet (lol), and of course long silicon gloves. I also saw the update on the recommended dose for formalin that you suggested on humblefish's thread, so I followed that dosage instead of the original one. As for the Salifert test, I tried the half-half trick, but I honestly can't really tell because the color is personally hard to distinguish. I'm at a dead end. I guess I'll have to get the Hanna HR.


Additionally, I bought the pellets fed to the fish by the fish store that I got the fish from. They told me that the pair got ich, so they treated them before delivering the pair to me. Honestly, I trust no lfs to properly quarantine their fish with aerosol transmission in their minds, so I must quarantine the pair again. I wonder if this stressed them more. I'll feed them again with the said pellets tmr, and see how they react. If they don't eat, I'll do a 10% water change with 2.25 ppm of copper predosed. Other than that, I don't really know what else I can do. I'll purchase the Hanna copper HR immediately, but it'll probably take a few days

P/s: I can't upload the video for some reason, so here's a google drive link:

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thank you for the thorough reply and your concern regarding formalin. Thanks to the threads written by you on r2r, I was fortunately well aware of the risks, so I did give them a formalin bath outdoors and was fully covered and equipped with 2 layers of N95 face masks, a face shield, a helmet (lol), and of course long silicon gloves. I also saw the update on the recommended dose for formalin that you suggested on humblefish's thread, so I followed that dosage instead of the original one. As for the Salifert test, I tried the half-half trick, but I honestly can't really tell because the color is personally hard to distinguish. I'm at a dead end. I guess I'll have to get the Hanna HR.


Additionally, I bought the pellets fed to the fish by the fish store that I got the fish from. They told me that the pair got ich, so they treated them before delivering the pair to me. Honestly, I trust no lfs to properly quarantine their fish with aerosol transmission in their minds, so I must quarantine the pair again. I wonder if this stressed them more. I'll feed them again with the said pellets tmr, and see how they react. If they don't eat, I'll do a 10% water change with 2.25 ppm of copper predosed. Other than that, I don't really know what else I can do. I'll purchase the Hanna copper HR immediately, but it'll probably take a few days

P/s: I can't upload the video for some reason, so here's a google drive link:

Sorry - I’m out camping for the weekend and I can’t get your video to play clearly on my phone. From what I could see they didn’t show any overt symptoms.

When you say you are feeding live krill, do you mean live brine shrimp?

 

[AnotherGrey]

Sorry - I’m out camping for the weekend and I can’t get your video to play clearly on my phone. From what I could see they didn’t show any overt symptoms.

When you say you are feeding live krill, do you mean live brine shrimp?

Like actual live krills. Updated news: Only 1 of them is gulping the food. The other one is still spitting out the pellets. Today is their 4th day in copper. I'm quite concerned. Should I feed them live baby brine shrimps to get the other one eat? I read that live baby brine shrimps are their favorite snack, like candies for clowns.

 

[AnotherGrey]

Like actual live krills. Updated news: Only 1 of them is gulping the food. The other one is still spitting out the pellets. Today is their 4th day in copper. I'm quite concerned. Should I feed them live baby brine shrimps to get the other one eat? I read that live baby brine shrimps are their favorite snack, like candies for clowns.

I've noticed white stringy feeces from the one that's not eating properly. I have Seachem focus and Metroplex, so should I mix the food with these and try feeding them again later?

 

[Jekyl]

I've noticed white stringy feeces from the one that's not eating properly. I have Seachem focus and Metroplex, so should I mix the food with these and try feeding them again later?

Could be due to the fatty foods being offered. Mix in some pellets.

 

[AnotherGrey]

Could be due to the fatty foods being offered. Mix in some pellets.

I don't see that one eating any pellets or anything really.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I don't see that one eating any pellets or anything really.

Yes - try live baby brine shrimp. That is a good way to entice clownfish to eat.

 

[AnotherGrey]

Yes - try live baby brine shrimp. That is a good way to entice clownfish to eat.

Thank you. They're both eating now after I soaked the food with garlic guard, but not as much food. My Hanna Checker should arrive tmr, so the problem is resolved. Last question, which may sound stupid but it's a noob mistake. Can I give my clowns a formalin bath and then give them a fresh saltwater rinse before putting them in the main tank after 78 days of quarantine? I think I might have underdosed the formalin bath (0.03 instead of 0.3 ml in a 2-litre tank at 28-29 degree outdoors. I was scared and nervous because it was my first time using formalin. I'm not sure if I did it correctly or not, though.)

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thank you. They're both eating now after I soaked the food with garlic guard, but not as much food. My Hanna Checker should arrive tmr, so the problem is resolved. Last question, which may sound stupid but it's a noob mistake. Can I give my clowns a formalin bath and then give them a fresh saltwater rinse before putting them in the main tank after 78 days of quarantine? I think I might have underdosed the formalin bath (0.03 instead of 0.3 ml in a 2-litre tank at 28-29 degree outdoors. I was scared and nervous because it was my first time using formalin. I'm not sure if I did it correctly or not, though.)

I'm not a fan of formalin baths. I've done literally thousands of formalin dips over 40+ years, but in recent years, I've gotten scared of using it due to human health concerns, plus, any dip (FW, formalin, or something else) is NEVER a 100% cure, they just help to limit the issue until you can get a better treatment started.

 

[AnotherGrey]

I'm not a fan of formalin baths. I've done literally thousands of formalin dips over 40+ years, but in recent years, I've gotten scared of using it due to human health concerns, plus, any dip (FW, formalin, or something else) is NEVER a 100% cure, they just help to limit the issue until you can get a better treatment started.

Thank you for the insight. According to the fish store that I got the fish from, captive bred clowns are less likely to get Brooklynella. Is that true? Coz if it is, I won't need to worry about formalin for a while.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thank you for the insight. According to the fish store that I got the fish from, captive bred clowns are less likely to get Brooklynella. Is that true? Coz if it is, I won't need to worry about formalin for a while.

That’s true, unless they were mixed in with wild caught clowns at the LFS or the wholesaler.

 

[AnotherGrey]

That’s true, unless they were mixed in with wild caught clowns at the LFS or the wholesaler.

They've been eating well. I saw both of them eating vigorously yesterday and the poop's color was fine (orange). I woke up today to check on them and saw white poops like in the picture. Is it a sign of intestinal infection or parasites? Can I mix metroplex with seachem focus and garlic, and feed them to treat?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

They've been eating well. I saw both of them eating vigorously yesterday and the poop's color was fine (orange). I woke up today to check on them and saw white poops like in the picture. Is it a sign of intestinal infection or parasites? Can I mix metroplex with seachem focus and garlic, and feed them to treat?

Yes, you can mix metronidazole, focus and food to treat internal protozoan diseases. The metronidazole needs to weigh 1% of the total weight of the food. This post explains that:

Proper Dosing of Medicated Foods

Proper Dosing of Medicated Foods Jay Hemdal c. 2020 Oral medications are an excellent way to target internal diseases of fishes. Marine fish absorb aquarium water, so in certain cases, they “drink” enough medication from the water to effect a cure. However, freshwater fish actively export...

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