Quarantine protocol for Flame Angel

[Aronsaquarium]

Hey!
Wondering if anyone has some good tips here.
I’ve got a flame angel in a 10g QT tank.
I got him 2 weeks ago, and did the second dose of prazi yesterday. So I can do a water change on Thursday and start copper treatment.

I did prazi first, as flames seem to be super sensitive to both copper and prazi at the same time. And he’s so far looking clean. So this way once he’s finished copper he can go straight into the tank..

Question is, I know they’re super sensitive with copper.
Im going to use Copper safe which I’ve heard is better for them.
What’s the shortest amount of time I can have him in Copper safe, and the lowest fully therapeutic level I can keep it at?

Considering I’ve had him for 2 weeks now, and he’s transferring straight into my DT afterwards

Thanks!

 

[vetteguy53081]

You dont want to run both at same time and I would have done copper first but ok. For prazi, you did not state how long you have run it but best is to apply initial dosage known as an interval for 8 days, do a water change and do one more 8 day dose interval while using an airstone with prazi as it does reduce both oxygen and appetite.
For copper, use coppersafe or Copper Power at therapeutic level 2.0-2.25 For a FULL 30 days (do not interrupt this 30 day period) monitored by a reliable Copper Test kit such as Hanna Brand- No API brand. Also monitor Ammonia levels while in quarantine with a reliable test kit and add also add aeration during treatment using an air stone.

 

[Aronsaquarium]

Thanks!
So yes I did first Prazi 10 days ago.
On day 9 I did the second dose, and being that prazi dissipates within a few days, I figured I’d start adding Copper after 3 days.. this Thursday.

I did Prazi first because I didn’t want to have to deal with taking the copper out before dosing Prazi. And this way he can go straight from Copper to my display, without the risk of having it transfer from a QT tank without copper in it.

Question is, why should we be doing 30 days if it’s going straight from copper into DT?
Shouldn’t 14 days be enough in such a case, as it’s being transferred straight away, and not sitting in the same tank that was used to treat?

 

[piranhaman00]

I would do copper at 2.5 for 14 days then transfer right to DT. I typically only do 10 days at 82F but that is probably pushing it, never had issues.

 

[MnFish1]

Hey!
Wondering if anyone has some good tips here.
I’ve got a flame angel in a 10g QT tank.
I got him 2 weeks ago, and did the second dose of prazi yesterday. So I can do a water change on Thursday and start copper treatment.

I did prazi first, as flames seem to be super sensitive to both copper and prazi at the same time. And he’s so far looking clean. So this way once he’s finished copper he can go straight into the tank..

Question is, I know they’re super sensitive with copper.
Im going to use Copper safe which I’ve heard is better for them.
What’s the shortest amount of time I can have him in Copper safe, and the lowest fully therapeutic level I can keep it at?

Considering I’ve had him for 2 weeks now, and he’s transferring straight into my DT afterwards

Thanks!

I am going to ask @Jay Hemdal what he thinks - because the usual protocol for Prazipro recommended here is 2 doses 8 days apart. My question would be did your delay (as compared to the protocol) - mean you have to start over to a degree.

I do not believe they are 'super-sensitive' to copper. The protocol for copper here is 30 days. Some say 14.

 

[Aronsaquarium]

I am going to ask @Jay Hemdal what he thinks - because the usual protocol for Prazipro recommended here is 2 doses 8 days apart. My question would be did your delay (as compared to the protocol) - mean you have to start over to a degree.

I do not believe they are 'super-sensitive' to copper. The protocol for copper here is 30 days. Some say 14.

If you want to be exact, i did 8.5 days apart the 2 doses of prazi
But from what I understand 8-10 days is the general area. We just do in the middle of it..

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hey!
Wondering if anyone has some good tips here.
I’ve got a flame angel in a 10g QT tank.
I got him 2 weeks ago, and did the second dose of prazi yesterday. So I can do a water change on Thursday and start copper treatment.

I did prazi first, as flames seem to be super sensitive to both copper and prazi at the same time. And he’s so far looking clean. So this way once he’s finished copper he can go straight into the tank..

Question is, I know they’re super sensitive with copper.
Im going to use Copper safe which I’ve heard is better for them.
What’s the shortest amount of time I can have him in Copper safe, and the lowest fully therapeutic level I can keep it at?

Considering I’ve had him for 2 weeks now, and he’s transferring straight into my DT afterwards

Thanks!

Flames are sensitive to ionic copper. Amine chelated copper is much safer. I always dose copper before prazi, and I only recommend running them at the same time in really fire dual infection cases.

Coppersafe is safe, but slow to work. I give it 30 days. 21 days would be at the minimum, but if a fish is fine at 21, it’s going to be fine at 30 as well.

 

[lagatbezan]

Coppersafe is safe, but slow to work. I give it 30 days. 21 days would be at the minimum, but if a fish is fine at 21, it’s going to be fine at 30 as well.

Hi Jay. I was under the impression that you can do a full therapeutic copper for 14 days and then transfer to a new clean qt after. Is that no longer effective and should be 21 days instead for ich/velvet? Is that for both copper power and coppersafe?

 

[Aronsaquarium]

Flames are sensitive to ionic copper. Amine chelated copper is much safer. I always dose copper before prazi, and I only recommend running them at the same time in really fire dual infection cases.

Coppersafe is safe, but slow to work. I give it 30 days. 21 days would be at the minimum, but if a fish is fine at 21, it’s going to be fine at 30 as well.

Thank you Jay!

So this is insteresing.
I’ve always seen some people saying 14 days and some 30. Like @vetteguy53081 said above.
Am I somewhat understanding that this is partly due to different medications?
And coppersafe takes more time than Cupramine does?

I’m gonna use coppersafe here so I’ll go the longer timeframe.

Ps,
Is the reason for copper first because ich or velvet is much more deadly than flukes?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Thank you Jay!

So this is insteresing.
I’ve always seen some people saying 14 days and some 30. Like @vetteguy53081 said above.
Am I somewhat understanding that this is partly due to different medications?
And coppersafe takes more time than Cupramine does?

I’m gonna use coppersafe here so I’ll go the longer timeframe.

Ps,
Is the reason for copper first because ich or velvet is much more deadly than flukes?

Coppersafe is chelated form and just a LITTLE longer and reason coppersafe first is that protozoan is a higher risk illness.
Mixing meds especially if not needed or proper treatment never or rarely ends well

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thank you Jay!

So this is insteresing.
I’ve always seen some people saying 14 days and some 30. Like @vetteguy53081 said above.
Am I somewhat understanding that this is partly due to different medications?
And coppersafe takes more time than Cupramine does?

I’m gonna use coppersafe here so I’ll go the longer timeframe.

Ps,
Is the reason for copper first because ich or velvet is much more deadly than flukes?

Yes, protozoans tend to kill fish faster than flukes do, so I use copper first.

Ionic copper standard dose is always been 21 days. There is no solid reference for using 14 days. Copper doesn’t kill the testing tomont stage. If you don’t run copper long enough, these can emerge after shorter copper treatments.

There is a trick that a lot of public aquariums do: 14 to 21 days copper, then prazi and then 72 more hours of copper, and pull the fish to a new tank right from the copper.

 

[Aronsaquarium]

gotcha, makes sense

So where does being fallow for (something like) 76 days come from?
Wouldn’t you need to then do copper for 76 days to cover all bases?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

gotcha, makes sense

So where does being fallow for (something like) 76 days come from?
Wouldn’t you need to then do copper for 76 days to cover all bases?

The 76 days cones from an old research paper that got over extrapolated - it was tested in a Petri dish at lower temperatures with no bacteria, not a real world test, but somebody read that and began telling everyone 76 days was a “rule” and now it’s all over the internet (grin).

30 days of copper is long enough to resolve marine ich. I’ve held fish in coppersafe for up to 4 months, but it isn’t needed to do that.

Jay

 

[Aronsaquarium]

The 76 days cones from an old research paper that got over extrapolated - it was tested in a Petri dish at lower temperatures with no bacteria, not a real world test, but somebody read that and began telling everyone 76 days was a “rule” and now it’s all over the internet (grin).

30 days of copper is long enough to resolve marine ich. I’ve held fish in coppersafe for up to 4 months, but it isn’t needed to do that.

Jay

Oh wow, interesting!
Thanks

 

[Aronsaquarium]

Hey!
Just confirming.
Fritz Coppersafe I should keep it between 2.0-2.25 for a flame angel?
30 days.

(First time using coppersafe, I used to use Cupramine. So just want to make sure I have it right.
Currently Hanna Checker is showing 2.07 so I should be good now. I just added a touch more to be safe..)

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hey!
Just confirming.
Fritz Coppersafe I should keep it between 2.0-2.25 for a flame angel?
30 days.

(First time using coppersafe, I used to use Cupramine. So just want to make sure I have it right.
Currently Hanna Checker is showing 2.07 so I should be good now. I just added a touch more to be safe..)

Yes - 2.25 is your target with Coppersafe. Cupramine is quite a bit harsher on angels, so I think you'll find the coppersafe to be much better.

 

[Aronsaquarium]

Yes - 2.25 is your target with Coppersafe. Cupramine is quite a bit harsher on angels, so I think you'll find the coppersafe to be much better.

Thanks!
I’ll aim for that.
And what’s the safe range I’m working in?
Anywhere between 2.0-2.5 is therapeutic?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thanks!
I’ll aim for that.
And what’s the safe range I’m working in?
Anywhere between 2.0-2.5 is therapeutic?

Shoot for 2.25 to 2.5

 

[Aronsaquarium]

Shoot for 2.25 to 2.5

Will do, thanks!
If it was 2.06 yesterday/today. Does that mean I can’t start the 30 day count yet?

Or is it still therapeutic?
I’ve added more, but that just pushes me back a couple days

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Will do, thanks!
If it was 2.06 yesterday/today. Does that mean I can’t start the 30 day count yet?

Or is it still therapeutic?
I’ve added more, but that just pushes me back a couple days

Yes - anything above 2 seems count towards the total. It’s not like if it briefly drops below 2, that you have to start over or anything (I hear that all the time, but it isn’t correct) it just adds a day or two to the end of the treatment.