QT and TTM plan while renting/limited space.

[HomeSlizzice]

Hi Everyone,

I need some help planning my new QT and/or TTM method for fish in my tank.

First off let me give you the bad new, heart breaking news.... I recently lost almost all of my fish to Velvet as of yesterday (PBT, Regal Angel, Potters Angel, Isosceles Wrasse, 2x Yellow Wrasse, and Royal Gramma are all dead (I have a leopard wrasse left, and I'm skeptical if he'll live). I'm currently treating my entire display with Ruby Reef Rally and Kick Ich (I'm also skeptical, but its what I have on hand) to try and help the Leopard wrasse live. The only thing I can think of that I added within the last few weeks was an acro frag, 6/25/2018, (which I dipped in CoralRX) from a local reefer. My last fish additions (yellow wrasses and isosceles wrasse) was on 6/19/2018 (with a 10 minute Ruby Reef Hydroplex bath before being added to the display) and none of the fish showed any signs of issues and all were eating. I don't know what one is the culprit, but I'm currently assuming it was the acro frag. Before this event, I've never really had a plan to set up a QT tank, I've always done fine in this hobby without one (12 years so far), but losing everything within less than 48 hours has made me change my mind.

For my corals and inverts, I'm setting up a spare AIO Cube tank I have as a fish-less coral tank for my corals, anemones, and maybe my cleaner shrimp that I will leave without fish indefinitely for the time being. I needed a frag tank anyway right... Anyway, I am going to break down my current display since I need to move it out of the living room, and into my room (Per land lords request a few weeks ago that I was pushing off until now). Since I am tearing down the tank, I will most likely sell off the system, and buy a new system with some better dimensions and a better designed sump.


Now for my questions. I've been reading all the different sticky threads about QT, different diseases etc... my head is spinning to say the least.

I want to set up an effective QT protocol based to on the TTM to effectively treat against ich, flukes, and the other common issues but most importantly velvet. Can I use the Tank Transfer Method like I have proposed below effectively for them? As I really do not want to use CP/Chloroquine, or copper because I love wrasses, angels, and tangs and they can be sensitive to them. I also don't want to use Formalin because its a known carcinogen. Prazipro I am hesitant to use because I know wrasses are sensitive to it, so I'm more inclined to do repeated fresh water dips and API General Cure instead...

I read that @Brew12 said for him the "QT I am recommending is treating in copper or CP for 14 days and transfer to a clean tank." which might be easier, but I know involves me using CP or Copper on Wrasses and Angels. I would ideally like a system I can use on all fish.

I'm willing to use and/or try the following meds from what I've read: Ruby Reef Rally, API General Cure, Seachem's Kanaplex, MetroPlex, and ParaGuard.

I also am willing to use the following foods during the treatment as supplemental meds: NLS Hex Shield Food, NLS Ich Shield Food.

Lastly for an ammonia reducer, I know Seachem Prime works.

My reasoning for being open to the select few meds is because I know i have them all readily available if needed and are safe for all fish. The others I don't trust to use on Wrasses, Angels, Tangs, and Mandarins. I am also open to doing freshwater dips as needed.

Also I commonly get multiple fish at the same time, so I would typically be doing this with more than 1 fish at a time.

So back to my method idea I am wanting to get everyone's opinion on. I currently rent a room out of a house with some guys (California is expensive, and I'm a bachelor) and I need to be mindful of them and the shared space. So this will either go in my room, the garage (no AC, so maybe a fan continuously running), or our laundry room. I can't do a bunch of large QT's, but I feel like I could manage a a few 10 gallon tanks fairly easily. I also don't want to run the risk of any of the meds harming my fish or being a carcinogen. So my plan is to use the TTM to treat velvet, ich and the rest with Rally and API General Cure mostly, and possibly the other foods or meds I listed.


For a TTM to be effective for Velvet in addition to ich, is 48 hours, 36 hours, or 24 hours required?

So here is the idea for getting new fish...

Step 1: Acclimate fish, do a Ruby Reef Hydroplex (I own this, and never had an issue with it until now, but I also don't know if its pointless) dip for 10 minutes in first 10G QT and observe for first few days until eating. begin treatment once eating. Not sure if this is necessary or if I should just begin the TTM right away?

Step 2: Treatment.
Day 1 - fish in tank, add Rally.
Day 2 - 1st transfer at 24 hours, fresh water dip, add Rally to QT (suggested dose of Rally is every day for at least 3 days)
Day 3 - 2nd Transfer at 24 hours, fresh water dip, add Rally to QT
Day 4 - 3rd transfer at 24 hours, fresh water dip, add Rally to QT
Day 5 - 4th transfer at 24 hours, fresh water dip, add API General Cure to QT (API GC suggested dose is every 48 hours)
Day 7 - 5th transfer at 36 hours, fresh water dip, add API General Cure to QT
Day 10 - 6th transfer at 71 hours, fresh water dip
Day 13 - 7th transfer at 71 hours
Day 14 - Observe and keep normally until day 30
Day 30 - Now if there are no signs of disease, release into display.

That protocol should eliminate both ich, velvet, and basically everything according what I've read, correct?

Are all the freshwater dips overkill, will they cause any harm? When transferring the fish it could be a way to make sure you don't have any harmful parasites/diseases right and also kill any spores on the colanders used for transferring right?


For the TTM set ups I am thinking of using the following, any suggestions or changes?
3x 10 Gallon Tanks
3x Heaters
3x glass thermometers
3x Identical PVC elbows for hiding
3x Seachem Ammonia Alert badges
As for filtration/water movement:
3x powerheads pointed towards the surface (apparently better than Airstones for gas exchange) OR
3x HOB Filters with only filter floss during TTM since carbon and bio media aren't effective with meds and how fast I am changing tanks.

My thoughts on the HOB filters is I should probably only use the HOB filters with carbon and Matrix for bio filtration seeded with Dr Tim's and some Prime for ammonia after the TTM is done, and only during the observation phase? Would you agree?


I know this is a ton of info and questions, but after losing basically all my fish and needing to start from square one, I am wanting to make sure I cover everything in an effective manner that will also work with my living situation. Thank you all for your help!

Also if you have any other suggestions or ideas, I'm open to reading them!


- David

 

[m0jjen]

I use a standard 100 litre tank for QT (just finished a QT period of 80 days on 6 fish). Before letting the fish back i do TTM in these containers from IKEA https://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/S09850874/ which works fine (on the last transfer). Fotprint needed for this is about 40x14 for the 100 litre tank and 22 1/2 x 15 1/4 for the Samla box. I pretty much remove the previous "tank" and move the new one there since the samla boxes dont weight to much.

I do not have any fancy shelf solution, just have the tank on the floor What you plan to QT will factor in aswell, an 8 inch angel probably wont do to good in these containers.

 

[HotRocks]

TTM will not work for velvet.

I have treated several tangs, Wrasse, and angels with chelated copper and no issues.

Since I have switched to copper power and using the Hanna checker to monitor the Cu level, I have not lost a single fish to copper.

I will post up some links here in a bit.

 

[HomeSlizzice]

TTM will not work for velvet.

I have treated several tangs, Wrasse, and angels with chelated copper and no issues.

Since I have switched to copper power and using the Hanna checker to monitor the Cu level, I have not lost a single fish to copper.

I will post up some links here in a bit.

@HotRocks is this the copper power to use? https://www.amazon.com/Copper-Power-Endich-ACP0016B-Treatment/dp/B00BUFXFP6

As for the TTM and Velvet thats interesting, I read that a TTM with the right transfer time could work with Velvet. Definitely curious to see what links you have I can read. Thank you!

 

[HomeSlizzice]

I use a standard 100 litre tank for QT (just finished a QT period of 80 days on 6 fish). Before letting the fish back i do TTM in these containers from IKEA https://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/S09850874/ which works fine (on the last transfer). Fotprint needed for this is about 40x14 for the 100 litre tank and 22 1/2 x 15 1/4 for the Samla box. I pretty much remove the previous "tank" and move the new one there since the samla boxes dont weight to much.

I do not have any fancy shelf solution, just have the tank on the floor What you plan to QT will factor in aswell, an 8 inch angel probably wont do to good in these containers.

Thank you for the info! I'll keep that in mind!

 

[HotRocks]

@HotRocks is this the copper power to use? https://www.amazon.com/Copper-Power-Endich-ACP0016B-Treatment/dp/B00BUFXFP6

As for the TTM and Velvet thats interesting, I read that a TTM with the right transfer time could work with Velvet. Definitely curious to see what links you have I can read. Thank you!

Yes that is the product I use.

If you consider copper here are some links that may be of help. As well as the dosing I have been using with much success etc.
https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/coppe...truments-high-range-copper-checker-hi702.454/
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ratios-for-dosing-copper-power.385871/

I cannot say I have not lost any fish in QT don't let me steer you wrong there. I have still encountered a gram negative bacterial infection that took out some fish. This most likely WAS the result of the fishes immune systems being weakened from the copper treatment, and not being able to fight off the bacteria. I have also encountered some fish that would not eat etc. This WAS NOT a result of copper. They would not eat from the beginning. Any fish that I have been able to get eating prior to starting copper treatment had no change or appetite suppression using copper power and monitoring with Hanna Checker using a level of 1.75ppm for my therapeutic target.

To list a few fish that I have treated with this method successfully, Moyeri Leopard wrasse, Male Bluestar Wrasse, PBT, YT, PT, Meleagris Leopard female, Regal Angel, Flame Angel, Moorish Idol, etc.

I HIGHLY recommend that you keep NFG on hand if you are going to use copper. Really good to have on hand anyway as it sounds like you are interested in expert level fish, as am I. It is a life saver.

Here are some @Humblefish Links regarding TTM/Velvet Etc.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/velvet-amyloodinium-ocellatum.217570/
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/tank-transfer-method.192655/
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/spars-tank-transfer-method.209690/
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/treatment-options-102.189658/

I know I hammered you with info here! A lot to disseminate, I hope it helps!

 

[HomeSlizzice]

Yes that is the product I use.

If you consider copper here are some links that may be of help. As well as the dosing I have been using with much success etc.
https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/coppe...truments-high-range-copper-checker-hi702.454/
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ratios-for-dosing-copper-power.385871/

I cannot say I have not lost any fish in QT don't let me steer you wrong there. I have still encountered a gram negative bacterial infection that took out some fish. This most likely WAS the result of the fishes immune systems being weakened from the copper treatment, and not being able to fight off the bacteria. I have also encountered some fish that would not eat etc. This WAS NOT a result of copper. They would not eat from the beginning. Any fish that I have been able to get eating prior to starting copper treatment had no change or appetite suppression using copper power and monitoring with Hanna Checker using a level of 1.75ppm for my therapeutic target.

To list a few fish that I have treated with this method successfully, Moyeri Leopard wrasse, Male Bluestar Wrasse, PBT, YT, PT, Meleagris Leopard female, Regal Angel, Flame Angel, Moorish Idol, etc.

I HIGHLY recommend that you keep NFG on hand if you are going to use copper. Really good to have on hand anyway as it sounds like you are interested in expert level fish, as am I. It is a life saver.

Here are some @Humblefish Links regarding TTM/Velvet Etc.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/velvet-amyloodinium-ocellatum.217570/
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/tank-transfer-method.192655/
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/spars-tank-transfer-method.209690/
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/treatment-options-102.189658/

I know I hammered you with info here! A lot to disseminate, I hope it helps!

Thanks for all the links! If I decide to do copper I'll definitely pick up the Hanna test kit. Before my velvet outbreak I had my Regal, Potters, and Powder blue Tang for over a year all eating well and thick! I'm happy to hear you've had good success with Wrasses, Angels, and Tangs with Copper Power.

I was reading through the links, and I had some more questions for you...

I HIGHLY recommend that you keep NFG on hand if you are going to use copper. Really good to have on hand anyway as it sounds like you are interested in expert level fish, as am I. It is a life saver.

I am not seeing an easily available source for NFG, can I use any of the meds I listed in its place (Ruby Reef Rally, API General Cure, Seachem's Kanaplex, MetroPlex, ParaGuard, NLS Hex Shield Food, and NLS Ich Shield Food.)? Also I know Ruby Reef Rally is recommended in the baths for treating Velvet in the 1-2-3 method lised, because of the Acriflavine and some other ingredients in it. Couldn't it be used for the 3-4 consecutive days like I mentioned to treat Velvet? I know I've been to different wholesalers and seen some of the tanks be a bright yellowish color which leads my to believe they are using Rally.

Here are some @Humblefish Links regarding TTM/Velvet Etc.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/velvet-amyloodinium-ocellatum.217570/
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/tank-transfer-method.192655/
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/spars-tank-transfer-method.209690/
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/treatment-options-102.189658/

I know I hammered you with info here! A lot to disseminate, I hope it helps!

In the Velvet, and Tank Transfer Method thread @Humblefish said that it won't work for Velvet back in 2015 at the beginning of his threads. Now as of 2018, @Humblefish has sad that a slightly modified version of the TTM should work for both. He says this on page 13 in the Velvet thread, and page 17 in the TTM he says the following based on the information we have on Velvets life cycle:

"Using TTM to treat velvet is still just theoretical. To test, here is how I would implement it:

Day 1 - fish in tank
Day 2 - 1st transfer at 36 hours
Day 4 - 2nd transfer at 36 hours
Day 5 - 3rd transfer at 36 hours
Day 7 - 4th transfer at 36 hours
Day 10 - 5th transfer at 71 hours
Day 13 - 6th transfer at 71 hours

That protocol should eliminate both ich & velvet."

I'm curious if this has been deemed ineffective now, of it it should/does work? My transfer protocol I listed works within the 36 hour window so it should be effective against Velvet from my understanding. Can you confirm?

Thank you again for all your help! I am curious and trying come up with the most effective solution for me. Hence all the questions, so thank you again!


- David

 

[Humblefish]

36 hour transfers should eliminate both ich & velvet, but to my knowledge this theory has still never been tested.

 

[HomeSlizzice]

36 hour transfers should eliminate both ich & velvet, but to my knowledge this theory has still never been tested.

Hi @Humblefish I appreciate you chiming in as well!

My question would then be, for testing how does my protocol look for treating Velvet, Ich, and most other parasites/diseases?

"For a TTM to be effective for Velvet in addition to ich, is 48 hours, 36 hours, or 24 hours required?

So here is the idea for getting new fish...

Step 1: Acclimate fish, do a Ruby Reef Hydroplex (I own this, and never had an issue with it until now, but I also don't know if its pointless) dip for 10 minutes in first 10G QT and observe for first few days until eating. begin treatment once eating. Not sure if this is necessary or if I should just begin the TTM right away?

Step 2: Treatment.
Day 1 - fish in tank, add Rally.
Day 2 - 1st transfer at 24 hours, fresh water dip, add Rally to QT (suggested dose of Rally is every day for at least 3 days)
Day 3 - 2nd Transfer at 24 hours, fresh water dip, add Rally to QT
Day 4 - 3rd transfer at 24 hours, fresh water dip, add Rally to QT
Day 5 - 4th transfer at 24 hours, fresh water dip, add API General Cure to QT (API GC suggested dose is every 48 hours)
Day 7 - 5th transfer at 36 hours, fresh water dip, add API General Cure to QT
Day 10 - 6th transfer at 71 hours, fresh water dip
Day 13 - 7th transfer at 71 hours
Day 14 - Observe and keep normally until day 30
Day 30 - Now if there are no signs of disease, release into display."

 

[HomeSlizzice]

@Humblefish I am also curious if @Brew12 's method of "QT I am recommending is treating in copper or CP for 14 days and transfer to a clean tank," would be easier? Two Identical QT's First one with Copper Power, second one maybe with Rally and/or General Cure just to be safe?

 

[Humblefish]

@Humblefish I am also curious if @Brew12 's method of "QT I am recommending is treating in copper or CP for 14 days and transfer to a clean tank," would be easier? Two Identical QT's First one with Copper Power, second one maybe with Rally and/or General Cure just to be safe?

^^ This is much easier than what you proposed in the post above it.

You would still need to deworm via General Cure (best done after the fish is transferred out of copper or CP), and I would wait 5-7 days before administering the second round of General Cure (not 48 hours).

 

[HomeSlizzice]

^^ This is much easier than what you proposed in the post above it.

You would still need to deworm via General Cure (best done after the fish is transferred out of copper or CP), and I would wait 5-7 days before administering the second round of General Cure (not 48 hours).

Ok good to know, I will probably lean this way.


What are your thoughts on my above post? I know my TTM protocol will be more labor intensive, but I won't need to use Copper. Which for fish extremely sensitive to copper, like Mandarins, could be effective, yeah?

"Step 1: Acclimate fish, do a Ruby Reef Hydroplex (I own this, and never had an issue with it until now, but I also don't know if its pointless) dip for 10 minutes in first 10G QT and observe for first few days until eating. begin treatment once eating. Not sure if this is necessary or if I should just begin the TTM right away?

Step 2: Treatment.
Day 1 - fish in tank, add Rally.
Day 2 - 1st transfer at 24 hours, fresh water dip, add Rally to QT (suggested dose of Rally is every day for at least 3 days)
Day 3 - 2nd Transfer at 24 hours, fresh water dip, add Rally to QT
Day 4 - 3rd transfer at 24 hours, fresh water dip, add Rally to QT
Day 5 - 4th transfer at 24 hours, fresh water dip, add API General Cure to QT (API GC suggested dose is every 48 hours)
Day 7 - 5th transfer at 36 hours, fresh water dip, add API General Cure to QT
Day 10 - 6th transfer at 71 hours, fresh water dip
Day 13 - 7th transfer at 71 hours
Day 14 - Observe and keep normally until day 30
Day 30 - Now if there are no signs of disease, release into display."

 

[HomeSlizzice]

Another benefit I can see to the TTM method I am proposing is for Mandarins and other small fish, you could use relatively small containers (like 5 gallon buckets) to save on salt mix. Also with the water being changed every day on the you could also toss in brine shrimp eggs that will be hatched by the next day before you do the transfer and provide food for the mandarin so you don't need to worry about it starving since live baby brine shrimp are a known readily accepted food by finicky feeders.

 

[Humblefish]

The 24 hour transfers + multiple fresh water dips are concerning, because you will sometimes get weakened fish that won't survive that. I would stick with 36 or 72 hour transfers and no chemicals whilst doing TTM, except for maybe General Cure or Prazipro.

 

[HotRocks]

Thanks for all the links! If I decide to do copper I'll definitely pick up the Hanna test kit. Before my velvet outbreak I had my Regal, Potters, and Powder blue Tang for over a year all eating well and thick! I'm happy to hear you've had good success with Wrasses, Angels, and Tangs with Copper Power.

I was reading through the links, and I had some more questions for you...



I am not seeing an easily available source for NFG, can I use any of the meds I listed in its place (Ruby Reef Rally, API General Cure, Seachem's Kanaplex, MetroPlex, ParaGuard, NLS Hex Shield Food, and NLS Ich Shield Food.)? Also I know Ruby Reef Rally is recommended in the baths for treating Velvet in the 1-2-3 method lised, because of the Acriflavine and some other ingredients in it. Couldn't it be used for the 3-4 consecutive days like I mentioned to treat Velvet? I know I've been to different wholesalers and seen some of the tanks be a bright yellowish color which leads my to believe they are using Rally.




In the Velvet, and Tank Transfer Method thread @Humblefish said that it won't work for Velvet back in 2015 at the beginning of his threads. Now as of 2018, @Humblefish has sad that a slightly modified version of the TTM should work for both. He says this on page 13 in the Velvet thread, and page 17 in the TTM he says the following based on the information we have on Velvets life cycle:

"Using TTM to treat velvet is still just theoretical. To test, here is how I would implement it:

Day 1 - fish in tank
Day 2 - 1st transfer at 36 hours
Day 4 - 2nd transfer at 36 hours
Day 5 - 3rd transfer at 36 hours
Day 7 - 4th transfer at 36 hours
Day 10 - 5th transfer at 71 hours
Day 13 - 6th transfer at 71 hours

That protocol should eliminate both ich & velvet."

I'm curious if this has been deemed ineffective now, of it it should/does work? My transfer protocol I listed works within the 36 hour window so it should be effective against Velvet from my understanding. Can you confirm?

Thank you again for all your help! I am curious and trying come up with the most effective solution for me. Hence all the questions, so thank you again!


- David

Solid source for NFG:

http://store.nationalfishpharm.com/NFP-products-Nitrofuracin-Green-59584.Item.html

Your other questions about the other medications... RRR is a great product to have on hand as well. It contains acriflavine which is an antiseptic that can be very helpful in the velvet treatment process by preventing secondary infection as well as treating fish with injuries, scrapes, etc.. To my knowledge it will not eradicate any parasites used alone.

I personally have never used the medicated foods, I just add GC or metro/Focus to my own frozen blend, and feed it.

I also Keep Kanaplex, Metroplex, Focus, and Furan-2 on Hand as well. I have used the Trifecta (Kanaplex, Metroplex, and Furan-2 all used together) with much success on a Moorish Idol that had a bad infection
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/happy-ending-with-a-moorish-idol.410220/

Methalyne Blue is another good item to keep on hand for Fish that you suspect have been exposed to ammonia, minor injuries etc.

I think most of your other questions were answered by @Humblefish above.

Sorry I should have clarified that TTM may possibly work in velvet eradication (To my knowledge, I haven't read of anyone who has a known velvet affliction that used TTM with success). To me the work it requires and how quick velvet multiplies, it just doesn't make sense to me to attempt TTM if you know you are dealing with velvet. I also don't know what the chances of survival would be, as a heavily afflicted fish may not even live long enough to see the second transfer. I personally have never used the method. There is a lot of room for error as well which is why I choose not to use it. If it is what seems most practical to you, by all means go for it. Share your experiences with all of us! That is what this place is all about!

 

[HomeSlizzice]

The 24 hour transfers + multiple fresh water dips are concerning, because you will sometimes get weakened fish that won't survive that. I would stick with 36 or 72 hour transfers and no chemicals whilst doing TTM, except for maybe General Cure or Prazipro.

My thought process with the repeated fresh water dips was for knocking off any attached flukes primarily, but also Ich/Velvet. I could forgo them entirely, or maybe do them only once or maybe every other day instead. My thinking in treating with General Cure was as a replacement for Prazipro against flukes too because I know Wrasses can be sensitive to Prazipro. Are Wrasses more resilient with General Cure? It has 250 mg Metronidazole and 75 mg Praziquantel per packet, is that effective against flukes?

As for 24 hour TTM vs 36 hour TTM, my thinking was more so memory convenience as you simply do the transfer when you get home from work everyday, versus forgetting to do it in the morning before work at hour 36. It would also give me an additional window against ammonia build up, right?

Solid source for NFG:

http://store.nationalfishpharm.com/NFP-products-Nitrofuracin-Green-59584.Item.html

Your other questions about the other medications... RRR is a great product to have on hand as well. It contains acriflavine which is an antiseptic that can be very helpful in the velvet treatment process by preventing secondary infection as well as treating fish with injuries, scrapes, etc.. To my knowledge it will not eradicate any parasites used alone.

I personally have never used the medicated foods, I just add GC or metro/Focus to my own frozen blend, and feed it.

I also Keep Kanaplex, Metroplex, Focus, and Furan-2 on Hand as well. I have used the Trifecta (Kanaplex, Metroplex, and Furan-2 all used together) with much success on a Moorish Idol that had a bad infection
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/happy-ending-with-a-moorish-idol.410220/

Methalyne Blue is another good item to keep on hand for Fish that you suspect have been exposed to ammonia, minor injuries etc.

I think most of your other questions were answered by @Humblefish above.

Sorry I should have clarified that TTM may possibly work in velvet eradication (To my knowledge, I haven't read of anyone who has a known velvet affliction that used TTM with success). To me the work it requires and how quick velvet multiplies, it just doesn't make sense to me to attempt TTM if you know you are dealing with velvet. I also don't know what the chances of survival would be, as a heavily afflicted fish may not even live long enough to see the second transfer. I personally have never used the method. There is a lot of room for error as well which is why I choose not to use it. If it is what seems most practical to you, by all means go for it. Share your experiences with all of us! That is what this place is all about!

NGP is expensive, wow!

As for Ruby Reef Rally, I'm thinking the that Rally treatment will help protect and give some relief to the fish if they have ich/velvet, and possibly flukes because it has acriflavine + aminoacridine + a small amount of formalin which should all help with that. Would you agree?

When using the Trifecta (Kanaplex, Metroplex, and Furan-2 all used together), is this put on the food, or just dosed to the QT water? I'll look into adding them to my list, along with Methalyne Blue.

I agree that if the fish is covered in Velvet he should receive medication as an immediate attempt to save him and give them a fighting chance against it. But for less extreme cases, or for prophylactic treatment I see TTM being a fairly easy solution. Make up 40-80 gallons of fresh salt water in a large container, and pull the 5-10 gallons needed per tank that's set up as you need it. Shouldn't be too time consuming overall.

Also please know my heart in asking all these questions, I am merely seeking knowledge but am wanting to fully understand the pros/cons of each. I really appreciate all of your continued help!



BTW, any feedback on the QT/TTM set up? Especially on the difference in using powerheads vs airstones...
"For the TTM set ups I am thinking of using the following, any suggestions or changes?
3x 10 Gallon Tanks
3x Heaters
3x glass thermometers
3x Identical PVC elbows for hiding
3x Seachem Ammonia Alert badges
As for filtration/water movement:
3x powerheads pointed towards the surface (apparently better than Airstones for gas exchange) OR
3x HOB Filters with only filter floss during TTM since carbon and bio media aren't effective with meds and how fast I am changing tanks.

My thoughts on the HOB filters is I should probably only use the HOB filters with carbon and Matrix for bio filtration seeded with Dr Tim's and some Prime for ammonia after the TTM is done, and only during the observation phase? Would you agree?"

 

[Jeff_H]

David,

I relatively new to the hobby, but have done a good bit of research on this topic over the past three years and have been using TTM for all my fish from day one, plus anything 'wet' that is going in the DT goes through some other QT period depending on what it is. Like you, I wanted to find a single protocol that would work for any situation so I could develop a single process for any fish or situation. I thought about trying to find a Vet that would prescribe Chloroquine Phosphate, but as mentioned, it doesn't work well of some fish, can depress appetite, and personally, I don't like the idea of attempting to balance the amount of poison in the tank to only kill the bad stuff.

Based on the thread below, I had a private conversation with Humblefish last year about the theoretical use of a 24-36 hour transfer you mentioned. I've decided to stick with the traditional 72-hour method for now, but if I positively ID Velvet in time, I have enough equipment to start the process over and switch to a 24-36 hour protocol and attempt to save the fish (theoretical speaking).

Other Thoughts on your original post:
- I personally don't do freshwater dips, and as Humble suggested, it might be too much for a compromised fish to handle. I was thinking the Rally should kill any free swimmers before or after the transfers anyway.

- Regarding the use of Prime for ammonia control, be careful. I've read you can't mix it with certain medications. I have been using a baseball size piece of Chaeto from my refugium for each tank. I recently QT'ed three wrasse and they enjoyed hunting for pods that came in on the Chaeto. I'm planning to also add Dr. Tims going forward as a secondary safety measure.

- Speaking from experience, I personally didn't like the use of the HOB filters. While they work great, for me they are more of a pain to clean, dry out thoroughly, store when not in use (space), and it's harder to make a tight lid for the tank to prevent jumpers. I've used small pumps with flow restrictors and loc-line. This worked well, but is expensive and hard to guarantee they are completely dry before the next use. I've recently gone back to airstones with a spray deflector made of Coroplast to stop the salt creep an minimize the possibility of aerosol transmission.

I hope to never have to use the 24-36 hour protocol, but if I do I will report back with what I learned. Good Luck!

https://www.reef2reef.com/conversations/ttm-and-marine-velvet-question.883946/

 

[HomeSlizzice]

David,

I relatively new to the hobby, but have done a good bit of research on this topic over the past three years and have been using TTM for all my fish from day one, plus anything 'wet' that is going in the DT goes through some other QT period depending on what it is. Like you, I wanted to find a single protocol that would work for any situation so I could develop a single process for any fish or situation. I thought about trying to find a Vet that would prescribe Chloroquine Phosphate, but as mentioned, it doesn't work well of some fish, can depress appetite, and personally, I don't like the idea of attempting to balance the amount of poison in the tank to only kill the bad stuff.

Based on the thread below, I had a private conversation with Humblefish last year about the theoretical use of a 24-36 hour transfer you mentioned. I've decided to stick with the traditional 72-hour method for now, but if I positively ID Velvet in time, I have enough equipment to start the process over and switch to a 24-36 hour protocol and attempt to save the fish (theoretical speaking).

Other Thoughts on your original post:
- I personally don't do freshwater dips, and as Humble suggested, it might be too much for a compromised fish to handle. I was thinking the Rally should kill any free swimmers before or after the transfers anyway.

- Regarding the use of Prime for ammonia control, be careful. I've read you can't mix it with certain medications. I have been using a baseball size piece of Chaeto from my refugium for each tank. I recently QT'ed three wrasse and they enjoyed hunting for pods that came in on the Chaeto. I'm planning to also add Dr. Tims going forward as a secondary safety measure.

- Speaking from experience, I personally didn't like the use of the HOB filters. While they work great, for me they are more of a pain to clean, dry out thoroughly, store when not in use (space), and it's harder to make a tight lid for the tank to prevent jumpers. I've used small pumps with flow restrictors and loc-line. This worked well, but is expensive and hard to guarantee they are completely dry before the next use. I've recently gone back to airstones with a spray deflector made of Coroplast to stop the salt creep an minimize the possibility of aerosol transmission.

I hope to never have to use the 24-36 hour protocol, but if I do I will report back with what I learned. Good Luck!

https://www.reef2reef.com/conversations/ttm-and-marine-velvet-question.883946/

Yeah I'm still really interested in doing the 24-36 hour TTM method. I'm also open to doing a more normal QT protocol with 14 days Copper Power, then transfer to a clean QT and treat with General Cure/Rally and probably the Trifecta (Kanaplex, Metroplex, and Furan-2 all used together). I just am really trying to find the safest and best option for covering everything I can.

Yeah agree doing several fresh water dips can be stressful, I would probably only do one or two just to be safe.

As for Prime, Yeah I think I would only use that with the TTM, for a normal QT I'd probably throw in some Dr Tim's One and Only at the start.

As for HOB filters, they are definitely a good option IMHO, but I'm open to other options. There s this new internal filter that would be good: https://www.marinedepot.com/XP_Aqua...Internal_Filter-XP_Aqua-0X1863-FIFRIT-vi.html

 

[HomeSlizzice]

@Humblefish & @HotRocks any additional feedback on my response above to you two? Thank you again for all your time btw. Maybe a phone call would be easier lol


Also I have a few more questions haha.

Is General Cure a good replacement for Prazipro against flukes? Like I mentioned, I know Wrasses can be sensitive to Prazipro. Do we know if Wrasses handle General Cure better than Prazipro? General Cure has 250 mg Metronidazole and 75 mg Praziquantel per packet for 10 gallons, is that effective against flukes?

Can Rally be mixed with Copper or any other meds, i.e. General Cure and the Trifecta? Plus since Rally is acriflavine + aminoacridine + a bit of formalin it should also help with has ich, velvet, and flukes, yeah?

When using the Trifecta (Kanaplex, Metroplex, and Furan-2 all used together), is this put on the food, or can I just dose it to the QT water? Also how long do I need to treat with the trifecta?

Also if I do a more normal QT protocol with 14 days Copper Power, then transfer to a clean QT what all should I treat with? Should I use General Cure +Rally + the Trifecta (Kanaplex, Metroplex, and Furan-2) together, at different times? Should any of those meds be done with Copper or before?

 

[HotRocks]

GC can definitely be used instead of prazipro. It "should" work about the same, the concentration of praziquantel is slightly lower in GC than Prazipro. I know they say Wrasse are sensitive to Praziquantel, I have not experienced this at all using either GC or Prazipro as long as dosed per instructions.

RRR should not be mixed with copper and other meds. It may provide some temporary relief for some parasites used as a bath prior to treatment. Also helps to prevent secondary infections in afflicted fish. No need to combine it with the others anyway as long as you are using a method deemed effective.

The trifecta is to be used dosed into water column. To treat for bacterial infections.

If you are going to transfer fish to clean sterile QT after 14 days of copper the only other treatment you will need prophylactically is food soaked with GC/focus (GC or metro/focus soaked food can be done during copper if you would like. I do it as soon as they are eating and settled into QT, especially with wrasse) and a deworming treatment of GC or Prazipro.

I would not recommend exposing the fish to the trifecta or any antibiotics for that matter prophylactically. Only use if you have a known bacterial infection going on.