Programming Neptune - Auto Water Changes

[wjcastiglione]

Alright, I'm in the process of building out my tank right now - I have some questions before I get to those, here is my tank set up:

1. Red Sea Nano Pennisula 26g w/ cabinet & built in Skimmer
2. Red Sea ATO+
3. Apex A2 Base Unit
4. Apex EB832
5. Apex DOS

Questions:

1. I was planning on using the DOS to do automatic 2 gal (~10%) water changes per week ... around this:
A. Do I drain water first, and then replace with new water? or run both heads of the DOS at the same time?
B. If I do drain the water first & then replace with new water, Can I set up my Apex to turn off the ATO at the same time or does it have to be a Neptune ATO? Have the same question with other internals too like the skimmer, etc. - do I turn all this stuff off?


I'm unsure if I'll get a "better" water change if I take out straight 100% old water - or if I just run both sides of the DOS at once, and have a "kind of 10% water change"

Any insight will be helpful.

 

[MnFish1]

Alright, I'm in the process of building out my tank right now - I have some questions before I get to those, here is my tank set up:

1. Red Sea Nano Pennisula 26g w/ cabinet & built in Skimmer
2. Red Sea ATO+
3. Apex A2 Base Unit
4. Apex EB832
5. Apex DOS

Questions:

1. I was planning on using the DOS to do automatic 2 gal (~10%) water changes per week ... around this:
A. Do I drain water first, and then replace with new water? or run both heads of the DOS at the same time?
B. If I do drain the water first & then replace with new water, Can I set up my Apex to turn off the ATO at the same time or does it have to be a Neptune ATO? Have the same question with other internals too like the skimmer, etc. - do I turn all this stuff off?


I'm unsure if I'll get a "better" water change if I take out straight 100% old water - or if I just run both sides of the DOS at once, and have a "kind of 10% water change"

Any insight will be helpful.

If you do take 100% old water out - it will be a better water change (since if you do it the other way you could also be removing some of the new water).

As to question B You do not have to turn off skimmers etc. As far as the programming, I believe you can - but I am not sure that you can program the redsea ATO with the APEX. Hopefully someone will have that answer

 

[RoanokeReef]

With the Red Sea ATO and Apex you can only turn off / on the outlet its plugged into.

 

[areefer01]

This may help you.

Neptune Apex Tutorials Part 9: DOS

Neptune DOS Tutorial

www.reef2reef.com

 

[wjcastiglione]

With the Red Sea ATO and Apex you can only turn off / on the outlet its plugged into.

hmmmmm I dont have it hooked up yet - not sure if this will mess it up or not.. I would assume not, but it may kick it off the internet during the power outage?

 

[wjcastiglione]

This may help you.

Neptune Apex Tutorials Part 9: DOS

Neptune DOS Tutorial

www.reef2reef.com

Well - that answers that. I'm going to just do the "continuous water change" and not deal with the ATO.

 

[dangles]

I opted for the “continuous” water exchange for simplicity. I’ve seen a few different calculations, and when compared to larger periodic water changes, there isn’t MUCH of a difference. Not a meaningful one, anyway. Just make sure you’re adding the “new”water downstream from where you’re pulling the old water.

Continuous also negates any issues with your skimmer or ATO.

(*when I say “continuous” I mean that I only run the DOS during the day. They’re just too d*** loud to run at night!)

 

[areefer01]

Well - that answers that. I'm going to just do the "continuous water change" and not deal with the ATO.

Suncrest has a couple other articles or tutorials on apex programming that helped the community. I've personally not set up an AWC yet but it is in the works. I had the article bookmarked which is why I had it to post for you.

Glad it provided some insight. Hope your day is well.

 

[wjcastiglione]

Suncrest has a couple other articles or tutorials on apex programming that helped the community. I've personally not set up an AWC yet but it is in the works. I had the article bookmarked which is why I had it to post for you.

Glad it provided some insight. Hope your day is well.

Thank you!

 

[ca1ore]

I’ve seen a few different calculations, and when compared to larger periodic water changes, there isn’t MUCH of a difference. Not a meaningful one, anyway. Just make sure you’re adding the “new”water downstream from where you’re pulling the old water.

I was going to make that exact point. I change 25 gallons per week. When the DOS runs, it is both heads at the same time.

 

[Dburr1014]

Suck water out up stream and dump water in down stream. It will be 100%

 

[MnFish1]

Suck water out up stream and dump water in down stream. It will be 100%

This is a great point - except - depending on the rate of replacement. As you suggest - having the intake and output separate makes a huge amount of sense

 

[BrunoL]

I'm reading this and I'm very interested in this as well. More concretely in the peninsula (which I think is aio right?), how do you physically set this up?

Do you unplug whatever you're dosing on the DOS or do you have a dedicated one? Where specifically are you putting your tubes? Extraction in the first chamber and new water in the return chamber?

 

[wjcastiglione]

I'm reading this and I'm very interested in this as well. More concretely in the peninsula (which I think is aio right?), how do you physically set this up?

Do you unplug whatever you're dosing on the DOS or do you have a dedicated one? Where specifically are you putting your tubes? Extraction in the first chamber and new water in the return chamber?

Will let you know when it’s up. Still waiting for tank to arrive.

 

[areefer01]

I'm reading this and I'm very interested in this as well. More concretely in the peninsula (which I think is aio right?), how do you physically set this up?

Do you unplug whatever you're dosing on the DOS or do you have a dedicated one? Where specifically are you putting your tubes? Extraction in the first chamber and new water in the return chamber?

Review the link above that talks about the DOS. It should explain everything. Easy enough to test using two box store 5 gallon buckets before tank installation.

 

[Dr. Reef]

Apex has a builtin task manager that allows you to enter how many gallons and at what time etc. If you run that task, it will break your gallons down to many small water changes over the time frame you set.
For example, I do 3 gal per day in a 200 gal coral tank over 24 hrs daily. It breaks it down to 140 plus small water changes.
Left head take new saltwater from container and puts it in the sump, Right head pulls the same amount of water from sump and puts it in the drain.
I have the old water being pulled from the very front of the sump soon after the filter socks and returning new water really close to the end of the sump closer to the return pump. This avoids pulling new water as its mixing near the sump and going up the pump into the tank and then back down from drain> So by the time it completes that cycle its not new water and more mixed with old tank water.
Hope that helps.

 

[DanP-SD]

I'm a fan of automating this task but when AWCs go wrong they can be catastrophic so you need to be careful and plan for all contingencies. I take the approach of over-engineering failsafes. I just posted a thread with the approach I built in this weekend on my newest build. You can find it here. As for location of the in and out tubes, I put both right in the spot where water transitions from the skimmer chamber to the return pump chamber. It's a location of high movement. Any water that gets added is quickly swept into the return pumps and any water I'm pulling out is coming from upstream in the sump. The tubes are close to each other because my sump is plumbed with quick connects right there so I ran a tube from the underside of the quick connect for the line that removes water and ran it to a probe holder slightly upstream. I think this effectively reduces to zero the likelihood of removing any of the new water since it would have to do a full lap through the return pumps, into the display and back to the sump to get to the suction tube.

 

[Rappa]

I use a different schedule for removal and filling. I have the DOS set to remove 7000ml's of water from the system for 2 hours, then add 7000 ml's as soon as the removal time is complete. I do that twice a day for my system. 14,0000 ml's is roughly 3.7 gallons a day. You have to figure out what the max removal is for your system before the return pump starts to suck air and the pump starts to cavitate. It will send air bubbles into your display. My max rate of removal is 2 gallons, so I stay a little under it at 2,000ml's. I also have to put a code line into APEX for my ATK to shut off during water change times. For example... "IF TIME 10:00-14:00 THEN OFF". That is super important to have that time exactly input correctly, or you can swing salinity levels by ATK filling as your removing old water. Hope that helps! It's been working for me.