Predator Tank Stocking List Questions

[AvidReefer]

Hello there!
I have a 75 gallon tank and am looking to build a predator aquarium.
My hypothetical stock list:
Weedy Rhinopias
Pop Eye Sea Goblin
Antanana Lion
Fu Manchu Lion
Radiata Lion
Leaf Fish
Cockatoo Waspfish
Snowflake Eel
Frog Fish
Toad Fish
Kole Tang
One Spot Foxface

And I would like to keep a toadstool coral and maybe some other low like lps and softies.
Does this make sense?
Any advice/modifications to the stocking list would be appreciated.
I plan to breed mollies and/or ghost shrimp to mainly feed the tank because the hunt is one of the coolest parts of having these fish anyway right?
@sawrip - I stole some of your stocking list because it was just the fish I wanted and you had species listed too. I knew I wanted some scorpions, an eel, waspfish, frogfish, and lions before but I wasn't sure which species to get until I saw your post. Thanks!

 

[Slocke]

I like the list. Lots of cool fish! Though I’ll warn you a foxface can be a massive coward in a predator tank.
If it were me I’d add a dragon wrasse because they’re super fun though they can also be menaces to your rock work.

@lion king knows the fish you chose much better than me. I also suggest you look at his threads to see how to properly care for them.

 

[lion king]

1st thing, click my name and "find all threads"; I keep and cover information on literally every species you've mentioned. They do take specialized care, especially with feeding and an observation tank is highly recommended. You could house about 5 of those on your list in a 75g. After you read some of my threads, hit me up with specific questions and I would be happy to answer them.

 

[sawrip]

No problem at all for pinching some stocking ideas, glad it inspired you

So a few points I've learnt along my journey which I've bullet pointed below, I'm still fairly new but I wanted to share my views on things:

- As per @lion king post above, his posts and advice have been invaluable to myself. I haven't lost a single scorp and they are all thriving, mainly thanks to his input.

- Finding good suppliers is key, I've found a few in the UK and stick with them now as I know the quality of the livestock they sell, reputation is everything.

- Live gutloaded food is the default for these fish, quite a few won't even consider dead and it's hard / impossible I think to hit all their nutritional requirements on a dead only diet

- A healthy well fed scorp will have a great defence against ich and bacterial infections. All of my ones have recovered using two protocols:
- Live diet and focus on brilliant water quality
- Hyposalinity for ich if required, it's the only viable solution as far as I can see as most are very sensitive to meds - copper in particular.

- Finally reconsider the Frog Fish, I say this as feeding for my one was too difficult with the likes of Lions and Eels around - they are too slow to compete really. My one lives in the sump now hiding among the macro algea this allows for targeted shrimp feeding.

Think that's about it, I wish you all the success with it!

 

[AvidReefer]

Finally reconsider the Frog Fish, I say this as feeding for my one was too difficult with the likes of Lions and Eels around - they are too slow to compete really. My one lives in the sump now hiding among the macro algea this allows for targeted shrimp feeding.

I really like the idea of a frogfish so maybe I can put him in the refugium like you did.

Though I’ll warn you a foxface can be a massive coward in a predator tank.

Okay... I wanted it for its algae eating prowess but if he hides all the time that'll be lame. Any suggestions on what I should get instead?

Also, does anybody know what kind of toadfish I should get? There's not much info out there on them.

I initially had a harlequin tusk on the list because they're gorgeous, but they seem like they'd get too big for my tank?

 

[Slocke]

I initially had a harlequin tusk on the list because they're gorgeous, but they seem like they'd get too big for my tank?

I think with few free swimming fish it may work size wise. I See two issues though.
One is that they are often not healthy. Australian ones are a lot healthier but also expensive.

The bigger issue I see is competition. A wrasse will be by far the best hunter in that tank and will eat any live food before your other fish can. Of course if it’s full then that isn’t an issue. I should have remembered that for the dragon wrasse recommendation. (Which is an even bigger fish so probably not a good idea)

Okay... I wanted it for its algae eating prowess but if he hides all the time that'll be lame. Any suggestions on what I should get instead?

Urchins and potentially large snails are far more reliable algae eaters than fish. I was having success with Mexican turbos around my snail eaters like my snowflake eel up until a couple weeks ago when my butterfly of all fish decided to attack them.

A foxface might be fine but it might not they just have a tendency to freak out and run into things.

 

[lion king]

The toadfish has a very large mouth and could likely eat many of your other choices, here's where you can get one https://gulfspecimen.org/specimen/fish/boney-fish/

Consider a balance between bottom dwellers and perchers; the eel, rhino, goblin, leaf fish, toadfish, angler, and waspfish are all bottom dwellers. In a 75 I would do only 2, some may consider 3 max. The leaf fish and cockatoo wasp are very challenging and difficult to feed. They would require special attention, in a community tank. Even with massive filtration, for them to thrive, I would not put more than 5 in a 75g. Feeding even 5 will be a challenge, your food supply will be a challenge and/or very expensive.

As @sawrip mentioned, I would reconsider the frogfish, and a sump in the long run is going to be too small. I wrote a thread dedicated to keeping frogfish. Hey @sawrip, I'm glad everyone is doing good and you made excellent points above, stated better than I could have said.

The fu is also on the very challenging list, not to dissuade you, just to let you know, most don't have success with them.

A small tang would be fine, the thing about the foxface is, they grow fast and visually are a large fish for a 75g. They tend to not take up so much real estate, so technically they would be fine in a 75g, but visually they will dominate the view, making the tank out of balance.

Feeding multiple predators like these is a challenge, feeding individually is a challenge on it's own. I suggest taking it slow and starting them in an observation tank, I wrote threads about an observation tank, the anatomy of a predator tank, and acclimation that would be good to read.

 

[sawrip]

The toadfish has a very large mouth and could likely eat many of your other choices, here's where you can get one https://gulfspecimen.org/specimen/fish/boney-fish/

Consider a balance between bottom dwellers and perchers; the eel, rhino, goblin, leaf fish, toadfish, angler, and waspfish are all bottom dwellers. In a 75 I would do only 2, some may consider 3 max. The leaf fish and cockatoo wasp are very challenging and difficult to feed. They would require special attention, in a community tank. Even with massive filtration, for them to thrive, I would not put more than 5 in a 75g. Feeding even 5 will be a challenge, your food supply will be a challenge and/or very expensive.

As @sawrip mentioned, I would reconsider the frogfish, and a sump in the long run is going to be too small. I wrote a thread dedicated to keeping frogfish. Hey @sawrip, I'm glad everyone is doing good and you made excellent points above, stated better than I could have said.

The fu is also on the very challenging list, not to dissuade you, just to let you know, most don't have success with them.

A small tang would be fine, the thing about the foxface is, they grow fast and visually are a large fish for a 75g. They tend to not take up so much real estate, so technically they would be fine in a 75g, but visually they will dominate the view, making the tank out of balance.

Feeding multiple predators like these is a challenge, feeding individually is a challenge on it's own. I suggest taking it slow and starting them in an observation tank, I wrote threads about an observation tank, the anatomy of a predator tank, and acclimation that would be good to read.

Yes they are doing fantastic at present, a winning combination of my work and your advice, little picture of my Goblin piggybacking off my Rhino this morning .

Glad you mentioned the Leaf Fish (profile pic), he's by far the worst feeder. Refuses to eat anything at all that's dead and will pick and choose which live shrimp or guppy he eats, seems to ponder things. I have to use a telescopic shrimp net to deliver the food right up to his face - glad I got him but he's hardwork somedays.

 

[ARGYGANG]

Hello there!
I have a 75 gallon tank and am looking to build a predator aquarium.
My hypothetical stock list:
Weedy Rhinopias
Pop Eye Sea Goblin
Antanana Lion
Fu Manchu Lion
Radiata Lion
Leaf Fish
Cockatoo Waspfish
Snowflake Eel
Frog Fish
Toad Fish
Kole Tang
One Spot Foxface

And I would like to keep a toadstool coral and maybe some other low like lps and softies.
Does this make sense?
Any advice/modifications to the stocking list would be appreciated.
I plan to breed mollies and/or ghost shrimp to mainly feed the tank because the hunt is one of the coolest parts of having these fish anyway right?
@sawrip - I stole some of your stocking list because it was just the fish I wanted and you had species listed too. I knew I wanted some scorpions, an eel, waspfish, frogfish, and lions before but I wasn't sure which species to get until I saw your post. Thanks!

i like this list its awesome. if i were you i would look into swapping the snowflake eel for another type of eel, snowflakes can be SO aggressive at feeding time that when you mix that with your current stock list and their poor eye sight that is possible disaster waiting to happen. ive seen reports of them killing 15+ inch puffers during feeding time by accidentally biting them, and seen them kill themselves by also biting puffers/lionfish during feeding time. also to add a foxface can sometimes be to scared to eat during feedings when you have them in a predator tank, id try adding one but be prepared to rehome/move to another tank if it isnt doing great. id love to see this tank setup seems exciting. my predator tank right now has a indian mud moray a dogface a spiny box and im planning on a volatan and fumanchu lion. id also rearrange the aqua scape each time i added a fish, to mix up the territory again to avoid some aggression to new arrivals.

 

[lion king]

Yes they are doing fantastic at present, a winning combination of my work and your advice, little picture of my Goblin piggybacking off my Rhino this morning .

Glad you mentioned the Leaf Fish (profile pic), he's by far the worst feeder. Refuses to eat anything at all that's dead and will pick and choose which live shrimp or guppy he eats, seems to ponder things. I have to use a telescopic shrimp net to deliver the food right up to his face - glad I got him but he's hardwork somedays.

Hahahaha, barbfish getting a piggyback ride from rhino.

 

[Beansprout]

These pics are both incredible!!!!

Yes they are doing fantastic at present, a winning combination of my work and your advice, little picture of my Goblin piggybacking off my Rhino this morning .

Glad you mentioned the Leaf Fish (profile pic), he's by far the worst feeder. Refuses to eat anything at all that's dead and will pick and choose which live shrimp or guppy he eats, seems to ponder things. I have to use a telescopic shrimp net to deliver the food right up to his face - glad I got him but he's hardwork somedays.

Hahahaha, barbfish getting a piggyback ride from rhino.

 

[AvidReefer]

Thanks for all the advice! I'll definitely take it slow and use an observation qt for each fish. And I'll do some reading on your articles @lion king on how to remove parasites and stuff. And I'll gut pack my mollies and shrimp with vitamins. Do you have any suggestions for my first predator? Based on the list of course.

 

[lion king]

Be forewarned they all have a high mortality rate. It will be more likely as to what's available at the time, and none will really cause any problems regardless of what order. Of all the ones listed, the antennata is likely the hardiest. Be careful of your source and don't buy from sources that run copper in their systems. If your lfs does, pick them up in the shipping bag.. If you have to order them, it's best to.order through the lfs and pick them up in the shipping bag. They also don't like multiple acclimations within a short period of time.

 

[ARGYGANG]

Thanks for all the advice! I'll definitely take it slow and use an observation qt for each fish. And I'll do some reading on your articles @lion king on how to remove parasites and stuff. And I'll gut pack my mollies and shrimp with vitamins. Do you have any suggestions for my first predator? Based on the list of course.

If you want to skip qt go to drreefsqtfish website and email there buisness email they can acquire whatever you want, I think the only downfall is sometimes if it’s a really hard to sell fish you pay for it before qt vs after but I’ve gotten two orders off him so far 20+ fish only lost a single dusky wrasse to shipping rest of my predators do great, he uses Cp instead of copper.

 

[lion king]

If you want to skip qt go to drreefsqtfish website and email there buisness email they can acquire whatever you want, I think the only downfall is sometimes if it’s a really hard to sell fish you pay for it before qt vs after but I’ve gotten two orders off him so far 20+ fish only lost a single dusky wrasse to shipping rest of my predators do great, he uses Cp instead of copper.

There is some suspected links to liver damage in lions using cp, which would mean all scorps and likely eels. It isn't used that often where I live that often to get a true read but I have seen some delayed mysterious deaths in lions after cp exposure. If you look you can start to see this online as well. The point to a qt for lions/scorps beyond disease is to establish a feeding routine, a very important step many skip and regret later.

 

[AvidReefer]

Cool. If anybody has suggestions for first predators that are not on the list, I am open to those as well.
So @lion king, are you saying it's a bad idea to order them online?

 

[lion king]

Cool. If anybody has suggestions for first predators that are not on the list, I am open to those as well.
So @lion king, are you saying it's a bad idea to order them online?

I have had success ordering online but I do find more control having a lfs order them for me. The lfs will usually have a relationship with the wholesaler and likely deal directly with the person bagging up the fish, so at least a small chance for a healthier fish. Many online retailers don't even have the fish, they pick them up from a wholesaler after you order them, their process can sometimes be much lengthier and in turn puts more stress on the fish. It depends on what sources you have available. My acclimation guide for lions is for all scorps.

As far as other suggestions, it will likely come down to what's available, whether online or through a lfs. I could have the lfs look at their available list and even have them keep an eye out for something I was looking for. If you see something available you can ask me about it, and it will be very likely I've keep them or know about them.

 

[ARGYGANG]

There is some suspected links to liver damage in lions using cp, which would mean all scorps and likely eels. It isn't used that often where I live that often to get a true read but I have seen some delayed mysterious deaths in lions after cp exposure. If you look you can start to see this online as well. The point to a qt for lions/scorps beyond disease is to establish a feeding routine, a very important step many skip and regret later.

wow did not know that thanks for the info! overlook that bit in my last comment OP.

 

[sawrip]

wow did not know that thanks for the info! overlook that bit in my last comment OP.

Apologies for the late reply been a busy few days recently.

So my number 1 easiest choice would be an Antenna Lionfish, my one is an absolute pig and eats literally anything.

Second would be a Snowflake Eel, very hardy in my view and sort of immune to a variety of diseases / parasites. I believe one of @lionkings one's survived a Velvet outbreak. My one eats anything direct from the feeding tongs, which offers great interaction.

Finally my third was a Radiata Lionfish which the same as the Antenna just eats whatever is offered with minimal fuss.

This is just my experience though and I may have just got lucky with good suppliers and healthy stock. Also just because they will chow down on dead food doesn't mean they are going to live long if that's the single source of nutrition - live is king.

Hope that helps a little.

 

[lion king]

Apologies for the late reply been a busy few days recently.

So my number 1 easiest choice would be an Antenna Lionfish, my one is an absolute pig and eats literally anything.

Second would be a Snowflake Eel, very hardy in my view and sort of immune to a variety of diseases / parasites. I believe one of @lionkings one's survived a Velvet outbreak. My one eats anything direct from the feeding tongs, which offers great interaction.

Finally my third was a Radiata Lionfish which the same as the Antenna just eats whatever is offered with minimal fuss.

This is just my experience though and I may have just got lucky with good suppliers and healthy stock. Also just because they will chow down on dead food doesn't mean they are going to live long if that's the single source of nutrition - live is king.

Hope that helps a little.

@sawrip while we both agree the antennata would be the hardiest on the op list, they are not a easy lion, and the radiata is one of the most difficult. Eels are the easiest choice before any lion. What I was going to mention to you, you being in the UK, your experiences with Scorpaenidae is much different than ours in the US. I would say Europe as a whole, we here in the US are very drug addicted and the handling is very much in question. It seems in Europe most aren't treating their tanks with copper and using drug cocktails like here in the US, scorps are very sensitive and this ends in a very high mortality. Our suppliers here also keep their sg low to suppress disease and parasites, and there is no constant, changing from supplier to supplier and the end with a hobbyist keeping a much higher sg. Of the hobbyist I have conferred in Europe, you seems to get scorps in much better condition than we do it the states. I've lost about 7 of 10 radiata's within a week or 2, and the ones I had for a length of time had to babied at 1st. The one I have now I've had for over 3 years.