Power Quality and Surge Protection

[siggy]

Siggy, thanks for a valuable write-up. Since you are experienced in this area, I wonder what your opinion is of the technology used by Zer0Surge https://zerosurge.com/surge-suppression/. According to their literature, they use a method of stopping surges that does not rely on MOVs which are degraded by the surges they stop. I have no good idea one way or the other but have had ZeroSurge suppressors on my computer equipment in the lab and at home for 20 years.

Hey Bruce
First I cant comment on your success at home but I would guess that the Lab probably uses Shielded Isolation transformers along with other equipment to provide clean power. In the 80's when Robots had racks of I/O cards I had to use a Static Wrist strap before opening the door and working, now we can do HOT SWAPS on a lot of our Peripherals. What I do see are a lot of is Power Supply's going bad, I contribute this to ether under-sized or degradation over time to dirty power, and yes power supply's use Mov's on the AC to regulate the input side of the bridge rectifier producing the DC our stuff uses.
If you can Replace a power supply in your big screen TV then your good to go, that is what the repair man said when he attempted to repair mine. 9 out of ten is a bad supply.

The Newer Electronic SPD'S are some high end stuff, I have not used any, or know of any in use. The choke they refer to is like a brake resistor that bleeds off energy when stopping a motor, I have seen these go bad in dramatic fashion. I should know more about these units but unfortunately don't.;Shamefullyembarrased
I got a chuckle out of their pitch why you should use theirs. yes technically ground is ground, but the GND reference in DC is actually or should be isolated from the AC GND (earth ground) and is the -DC and sometimes called chassis or common ground

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

There are some reef keeping comrade that say, they use their titanium heaters as a ground probe. Well I have one of those and I was planning to use just the titanium remove controller, because the controller went bad and you know what the titanium is not grounded so not good.

I did a continuity check on the wires coming out of the titanium heater only and the titanium is not grounded.

 

[Big G]

Siemens Is GOOD stuff! FYI When a Power outage occurs, That Switching is one of the highest surges you will encounter.

Hi, Siggy
Been using the Siemens whole house surge protector and the Generac 22kw for over a year now. According to my use log the Siemens and the Generac have dealt with 9 outages for just over 22 hours on the Generac. Works very smooth and as far as the electrical equipment in the house have been just fine.

 

[bblumberg]

Hey Bruce
First I cant comment on your success at home but I would guess that the Lab probably uses Shielded Isolation transformers along with other equipment to provide clean power. In the 80's when Robots had racks of I/O cards I had to use a Static Wrist strap before opening the door and working, now we can do HOT SWAPS on a lot of our Peripherals. What I do see are a lot of is Power Supply's going bad, I contribute this to ether under-sized or degradation over time to dirty power, and yes power supply's use Mov's on the AC to regulate the input side of the bridge rectifier producing the DC our stuff uses.
If you can Replace a power supply in your big screen TV then your good to go, that is what the repair man said when he attempted to repair mine. 9 out of ten is a bad supply.

The Newer Electronic SPD'S are some high end stuff, I have not used any, or know of any in use. The choke they refer to is like a brake resistor that bleeds off energy when stopping a motor, I have seen these go bad in dramatic fashion. I should know more about these units but unfortunately don't.;Shamefullyembarrased
I got a chuckle out of their pitch why you should use theirs. yes technically ground is ground, but the GND reference in DC is actually or should be isolated from the AC GND (earth ground) and is the -DC and sometimes called chassis or common ground

Hi Siggy,

Sadly, the power at UCI is very dirty in some buildings - the joys of low bid construction and "value engineering" I guess. My current building is not bad, but the first building my lab was in had such filthy power that computers often crashed inexplicably and I had to replace quite a few PC power supplies. We had lots of issues with stability of some sensitive electronic equipment and even a tissue culture incubator that we could never get to calibrate correctly, even after replacing circuit boards. Facilities management claimed there were no detectable problems with the power. Based on a suggestion from the manufacturer of the incubator, I put a Tripp-Lite power line conditioner on the incubator and, voila, no more issues. Then I put cheaper APC power line conditioners on all computers and lab equipment that had computers inside and those problems stopped as well. Not a perfectly scientific test, but lack of problems persuaded me. My personal office computers and servers and PC at home are all on UPS downstream of ZeroSurge equipment. No issues beyond replacing UPS batteries every few years.

I can imagine that a faulty capacitor in the ZeroSurge type of device could fail spectacularly. I am glad not to have experienced that.

 

[siggy]

I did a continuity check on the wires coming out of the titanium heater only and the titanium is not grounded.

Hey I'm one of those Guys I have seen titainium heaters without the ground prong so I just ASSumed those with are grounded Now I will have to ring mine out.

Hi, Siggy
Been using the Siemens whole house surge protector and the Generac 22kw for over a year now. According to my use log the Siemens and the Generac have dealt with 9 outages for just over 22 hours on the Generac. Works very smooth and as far as the electrical equipment in the house have been just fine.

That didn't come out right, I was referring to the utility Switching to clear a fault on the line. @Robin Haselden might be able to give us an Idea what Level surge that produces.

 

[siggy]

I put a Tripp-Lite power line conditioner on the incubator and, voila, no more issues.

I have 5, All on very specialized machines..Excellent all in one units

 

[SashimiTurtle]

That didn't come out right, I was referring to the utility Switching to clear a fault on the line. @Robin Haselden might be able to give us an Idea what Level surge that produces.

Hey, just seeing this.

So, what actually happens when a power outage occurs. When a current fault happens say, a phase to phase fault such as a limb on the line, the OCB/VCB whatever type of circuit breaker is being used trips killing power to the circuit. Now, everyone instantly goes and flips all the light switches on in their house, because that makes the lights come on faster... now, to facilitate faster restoration of electrical services, sometimes all that's needed is to just turn it back on. This is done with what is called a recloser. The recloser will attempt to close the circuit breaker 3 times. A limb might have brushed the lines and fallen back off, or it may still be on the lines and energizing them can burn/blow it off. When it does this, it is full voltage and current, and the surge from everyone turning everything in the world on at one time(because the lights are off, I gotta turn every switch in the house on) can be immense. After 3 failed attempts to reclose the circuit the recloser stops, and someone must go out to the fault and correct the issue.

 

[Billyjose4]

receptacles come in several colors and I really like these for Media Centers, Notice this is rated for 20 amps although I have never used one and Belkin is talked about but I would never have a reason to TRY one when better options are available.

Sub Units for small theaters or room application $70 you still need a type3 ......next is a cost effective around $200 whole house type 2.....and My choice would be the last for type-2, conduit and wiring all ready to go just tie in. $450 and robust.


Siggy,
What make/model is this red receptacle above?
I've never seen this before-- would go perfect in my home theater room.
Already have the equipment protected by a TrippLite AV3500PC and an APC S15.

 

[siggy]

Siggy,
What make/model is this red receptacle above?
I've never seen this before-- would go perfect in my home theater room.
Already have the equipment protected by a TrippLite AV3500PC and an APC S15.

This will get you started https://www.lightingsupply.com/levi...CNWdbSLw43_r8aMz0MciOhYgH41-ovKoaAtAQEALw_wcB

 

[siggy]

Even the best or trusted can fail when misused...or....Used in a manner not intended for use.
A Quality POWER strip with a Current Limiting Device AKA Circuit Breaker would be a better option for a space heater as you can see.

 

[Billyjose4]

This will get you started https://www.lightingsupply.com/levi...CNWdbSLw43_r8aMz0MciOhYgH41-ovKoaAtAQEALw_wcB

Thank you! You are awesome!
Just to give you some further credit, I already called my electric utility co. and am attempting to get their approval to have a type-1 SPD installed at the service entrance/meter. Hopefully they will view it as an opportunity to install it themselves and make a few bucks.

 

[Flameback Pair]

Most of this is over my head but what is the difference between surge protectors and surge suppressors and is it a significant difference for the average reef hobbiest?

 

[siggy]

what is the difference between surge protectors and surge suppressors

Its is the same thing. Just GUESSING here, that those unfamiliar with the process might shy away from a suppressor, protector is a general term. thanks for asking

 

[siggy]

This diagram illustrates the clamping level of each device, http://catalogs.leviton.com/Surge-Protective-Devices/1/ for those asking for part numbers

 

[siggy]

I have received a few questions offline and I thought I would post them
Quote;
Just two follow-up question (your opinion):

1) The Leviton Type 2 you suggested above only requires a 20A breaker and is rated for 100kA. The Eaton CHSPT2ULTRA requires a 50A breaker and is rated for 108kA. Any difference beyond brand preference?

2) Is there any benefit (even theoretical) to install two Type 2 SPD's to the main service panel (one on left side, one on right side)? Just curiosity.
reply;
first the breaker size is rated for the sized conductor so the leviton will have #12 wire (12=20amp) or larger, if the eaton is asking for a 50a that should mean it has a #6 wire (6=60amp) which I highly doubt.
each whole house unit will cover both 120 legs or Hots being delivered

 

[siggy]

I copied this (below) from the Eaton download of the CHSPT2ULTRA ...The fact that an inspector will call out the install tells me they are using #14 wire (#14 = 15amp) and if you don't use a 50 you will not be covered

What if my inspector questions my installation method?
Reference NEC® article 110.3 (B) which states that “listed or labeled equipment shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions included in the listing or labeling” as well as the instruction bulletin for the SPD.
If an inspector continues to have a perceived issue, any dedicated 15 or 50 ampere circuit breaker may be used. The SPD will still perform its intended function but it is not guaranteed that the SPD will perform to its published ratings.

Further If you file a claim they will ask if this was installed by a licensed electrician? Then if the dollar amount is high they will probably ask if it was inspected. The inspectors I know will not buy-off on this. They are Clear!
Personally I would not be responsible for a #14 Gage wire on a 50 amp breaker, and this being a electronic device meant to capture a high energy surge! and lastly the Housing on this is plastic unlike most that are Steel.

 

[siggy]

This just popped up, Type 1 Surge Protector, Generator Hookup with Auto transfer built in 30 or 40 amp Generator inputs
https://www.homedepot.com/p/GenerLi...w-awecqOToJZgo7C9lemgRoC2K7w_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

[siggy]

I already called my electric utility co. and am attempting to get their approval to have a type-1 SPD installed at the service entrance/meter

@Billyjose4 how goes the project?

 

[Billyjose4]

Still waiting to get off the ground.
Can't find a single electrician/contractor willing to install the Type 1 surge protection at the meter.
I've even offered full payment up front.
Very frustrating.
It's going to stay on my list tho- I still believe the protection is worth the investment.

 

[siggy]

Can't find a single electrician/contractor willing to install the Type 1 surge protection at the meter.

Did you get utility approval?
Get a good type 2 and don't sweat it. Best of luck