Porcupine puffer FOWLER tank but everything else dies

[Tabitha20634]

Did the damsels all show the same lesions when they died?
Possibly Uronema? That could explain how your damsels got wiped out.

They usually die with mouth open and red marks like this:

I can see that wiping out your damsels... But you did say they were dead in perfect condition.

The Lionfish is another mystery tho.
Unless the Porq Puffer went Disneyland on its fins, did the lion die in perfect condition?


What is really stumping me is that the puffer is doing great, the other fish are dying.
Which means either the puffer is killing it, or there is a disease in your tank that the puffer is immune to, but is wiping out the other fish.

any idea of a way to test that? I did a water change after the damsels and before the lionfish for that reason which led to my dude blowing up twice cause he was a little too interested in the flow pump in the bucket. He had a stressful day but otherwise is in perfect health now. They were dull but i didnt notice any red but I also wasnt looking for it either. Is there a test for that? or parameters that indicate it?

 

[Devaji]

lol yeah I dont wanna keep killing them not just because of the price also he is adorable with his cute little smile face lol its why I spontaneously joined my BF in this expensive space consuming hobby lol

yeah they are cute little buggers, that's why I can get away with saying that.

I wanted to add one to my FOWLR but sticking with angels and butterflies with a odd tang and wrasse.

 

[Tabitha20634]

Wrasses are gorgeous at any size, but especially when they get big. The guy I am getting my new tank from is what inspired the dwarf lionfish. He has this amazing ruby-red one. When I get the bigger tank, hopefully, I can try some others, definitely a tang or coral beauty. My BF has one, and it's stunning. Once they get bigger, they may be going into my tank anyway. My new tank is 180 (with sump)

 

[Naekuh]

Ugh.... i have a love and hate relationship with Tangs.

Most of them are absolute Jerks... they are Ich Factories, and they need a LOT of room to handle some of the ADHD variants.

The powder blue tang is what drove me to take a break from the hobby the last time. I could not get rid of its ich, and it got too big to put in QT, eventually creating a super Ich strain that wiped the entire tank out.

 

[Tabitha20634]

We only have one. The coral beauty bullied him at first, but they are fine now. He is a shy little guy. He is only maybe 2.5 inches. We get them small, lol. My bank is about to refuse purchases from the daily visits to Reef stores. My pockets are pretty shallow till next year lol

 

[Tabitha20634]

Also, I am sorry about your tank. We haven't experienced a full tank fail ( unless you count the quarantine tank with the puffer. Will def keep an eye out for ick!

 

[Malum Argenteum]

What is the temp in the tank?

salt was 25,

Does that mean 'specific gravity was 1.025' or 'salinity was 25 parts per thousand'?

I didnt do a test on the water he was in. I didn't know that was a part of the process I am still very new to the hobby and still processing hours of you tube knowledge lol

It would be good to know, since you didn't really acclimate the fish. I'd suspect, especially in the absence of other possible causes, that the fish simply didn't deal with the shock of rapidly changing salinity and/or temp.

 

[C_AWOL]

Mixing other fish with the porcupine puffer provided you have enough room in the tank will be a non issue so long as they're well fed and water quality is maintained.

I suspect that the damsels were moribound from shipping stress and/or died of uronema (both are unfortunately really common for those fish) since it's unlikely a porcupine puffer would immediately know to eat fish (not normally part of their diet)

 

[jasonrusso]

If the salt is 25ppt, that is low but not unheard of. I usually test the water the fish are in that just shipped and try to match it.

 

[Tabitha20634]

Mixing other fish with the porcupine puffer provided you have enough room in the tank will be a non issue so long as they're well fed and water quality is maintained.

I suspect that the damsels were moribound from shipping stress and/or died of uronema (both are unfortunately really common for those fish) since it's unlikely a porcupine puffer would immediately know to eat fish (not normally part of their diet)

Both of these issues are both dispelled and addressed earlier up in the thread

 

[Tabitha20634]

What is the temp in the tank?


Does that mean 'specific gravity was 1.025' or 'salinity was 25 parts per thousand'?



It would be good to know, since you didn't really acclimate the fish. I'd suspect, especially in the absence of other possible causes, that the fish simply didn't deal with the shock of rapidly changing salinity and/or temp.

The temperature was the same .... The bag was in the tank to do that very thing. The salinity issue would also make no sense as the all came from the same store .... Local not shipped as stated above. for now, I’m not adding anymore until my new tank comes in, which is significantly larger and hopefully that is the only other thing I can think of is the tank is just too small because everything else was perfect there’s no sign of diseases as stated above no bites no bullying, signs of stress, only right before death

 

[Malum Argenteum]

The salinity issue would also make no sense as the all came from the same store

It does make sense, since all but one (the puffer) died, and you didn't acclimate them. Makes infinitely more sense that damsels dying because they're in a 30g tank, since that isn't a thing.

 

[Tabitha20634]

It does make sense, since all but one (the puffer) died, and you didn't acclimate them. Makes infinitely more sense that damsels dying because they're in a 30g tank, since that isn't a thing.

please tell me then what is your acclimation process because I did what every single person I have watched both in person and on youtube has done. I primarily watch and visit WWC top shelf and living reef which was just bought out by top shelf here in central FL. You have not given any advice just said that I have done something wrong. I have dispelled both the temp ( it was the same temp) and salt level but you still claim I did something wrong.

 

[Naekuh]

WOW you guys....

Lets recap here from what we know.

1. The OP has a perfectly fine and happy puffer, ignore the tank size for now she stated its a temp, as she has a 180g coming in.

2. The OP is not a complete newbie because her boyfriend recruited her into the hobby. Im sure she has the accumulated knowledge of her boyfriend thats a seasoned reefer to know something simple like acclimation.

3. The dead fish show no physical sign of being chewed on, or any paracites to her and her boyfriends knowledge. Im pretty sure if its was something simple, her boyfriend would of known and called it out already.
The situtation is to the point where its confusing both of them, and half of us here on the forum too, because if it was chemistry, the Puffer would of been on the casualty list, or be showing signs of distress. Instead Mr or Mrs Puffer is enjoy life in a 30g all by itself waiting for the bigger the tank.

4. She said 2 different species have died... a Damsel, and Lionfish.
The damsels, its possible for the fish to have caught URO during transport, from the shift of salinty and URO being present. The Lionfish on the other hand... have any of you guys even had lions? They are not anything like CBB that will go on a hunger strike because u said it has a funny nose, and die that easily. The Lionfish is what is confusing us.

If the Lionfish was sick, water bad... and the damsels were also a product of that, why is the puffer perfectly fine?

Please stop crucifying the OP.
She is wants more fish, but is doing the responsible thing of figuring out why, instead of adding more to the death count.

 

[Tabitha20634]

thank you

 

[kvansloo]

I test salt in the new fish water and my water to make sure its on the money or with in 2% of 1.025 it usually matches. Then do drip acclamation in a Tupperware bowl in a 5 gallon bucket, using a dosing tube get siphon started. Then tie a knot in it and let it drip for 30 mins to an hour and a half also check temp of water to verify temp is the same as tank then remove fish and place in tank. I never add the stores water to my tank. I have done it that way for 15 years.

 

[C_AWOL]

WOW you guys....

Lets recap here from what we know.

1. The OP has a perfectly fine and happy puffer, ignore the tank size for now she stated its a temp, as she has a 180g coming in.

2. The OP is not a complete newbie because her boyfriend recruited her into the hobby. Im sure she has the accumulated knowledge of her boyfriend thats a seasoned reefer to know something simple like acclimation.

3. The dead fish show no physical sign of being chewed on, or any paracites to her and her boyfriends knowledge. Im pretty sure if its was something simple, her boyfriend would of known and called it out already.
The situtation is to the point where its confusing both of them, and half of us here on the forum too, because if it was chemistry, the Puffer would of been on the casualty list, or be showing signs of distress. Instead Mr or Mrs Puffer is enjoy life in a 30g all by itself waiting for the bigger the tank.

4. She said 2 different species have died... a Damsel, and Lionfish.
The damsels, its possible for the fish to have caught URO during transport, from the shift of salinty and URO being present. The Lionfish on the other hand... have any of you guys even had lions? They are not anything like CBB that will go on a hunger strike because u said it has a funny nose, and die that easily. The Lionfish is what is confusing us.

If the Lionfish was sick, water bad... and the damsels were also a product of that, why is the puffer perfectly fine?

Please stop crucifying the OP.
She is wants more fish, but is doing the responsible thing of figuring out why, instead of adding more to the death count.

I still stand by one part of my earlier statement which was "shipping related stress" since there's no evidence of disease from what I've read.

I understand that the fish were purchased locally but that doesn't account for anything that happened to them prior to arrival at the lfs. Cyanide (unlikely) or mishandling (my actual guess) will ultimately cause healthy looking fish to die despite looking great initially (can be mitigated if purchased fish are kept at the store for 7+ days).

As great as any lfs may say they are/actually be, bad batches happen/mistakes are made even from usually great distributors/employees.

please tell me then what is your acclimation process because I did what every single person I have watched both in person and on youtube has done. I primarily watch and visit WWC top shelf and living reef which was just bought out by top shelf here in central FL. You have not given any advice just said that I have done something wrong. I have dispelled both the temp ( it was the same temp) and salt level but you still claim I did something wrong.

Not the person you tagged but I generally don't over stress about acclimation too much.
Ask for/test the stores salinity (if you ask then double check with your own due to a likely difference in equipment calibration)

If the salinity is within .001sg of your tank (can be larger for fish if yours is lower such as going from 1.025 to 1.023) then just temp acclimate and add.

Drip acclimation tends to be too slow and stressful to the point where ammonia build up/poor gas exchange + additional handling causes more harm than a small change in temp+salinity ever could. The issue becomes worse when more fish are acclimated in the same container at once.

If it ever turns out that there's a large discrepancy in salinity (ie yours is 1.025 and theirs is 1.020) then adjust the display/quarantine ahead of purchasing your new addition (to match or within .001/.002) or look elsewhere to buy said fish because raising the salinity that much will take forever to do via drip (ammonia/o2 issue) and going up that much that rapidly is detrimental (less so downward)