po4 instability

[Uncle99]

idk man my acro dying and mushrooms shrinking. only thing thriving is gsp kinda, and pulsing xenia

I can’t see either.05-.08 (your target) or .16 (actual) is causing your issue.

I’ve run 7 years of .15ppm and sometimes up to .25ppm phosphate without issue.

Maybe your system like .16ppm.

Stability is more important than level within reason.

 

[Trillaman954]

Assuming the results are accurate, they likely reflect lanthanum stripping the water of phosphate, then rock and sand desorbing more phosphate to send it back to near, but not quite at, the starting point.

Repeat that often enough and the amount in the rock and sand will decline and eventually it will come down.

ok im glad i received your input. i was just scared continuous use of the chemical will have negative effects. im going on week 2 of every 3 day dosing.

 

[Trillaman954]

I can’t see either.05-.08 (your target) or .16 (actual) is causing your issue.

I’ve run 7 years of .15ppm and sometimes up to .25ppm phosphate without issue.

Maybe your system like .16ppm.

Stability is more important than level within reason.

i agree with you. its just im trying to stabilize it at like 0.05 so i can have a better range of corals. also im not seeing growth after almost a year on some corals. others seems to be doing good though. like i have one long polyp leather that grew huge vs one neon polyp leather that still the same frag size since i got it and the latter is older. so im thinking its because i dont have stability with alk and p04

 

[Reef.]

Floss is most likely not good enough, you are trying to remove extremely tiny molecules, floss is not up to that, buy a fine filter sock, add the Lf to the sock very slowly then change after a few hours.

That is the reason your po4 is not dropping as the LF isn’t being removed.

It’s not good for fish so I would do a few 20% water changes to remove all the LF you have already added then start again with the sock.

 

[Trillaman954]

Assuming the results are accurate, they likely reflect lanthanum stripping the water of phosphate, then rock and sand desorbing more phosphate to send it back to near, but not quite at, the starting point.

Repeat that often enough and the amount in the rock and sand will decline and eventually it will come down.

im glad you replied because i was worried constant use of this chemical was bad. im on week 2 of 3day 2ml applications.

 

[Trillaman954]

Floss is most likely not good enough, you are trying to remove extremely tiny molecules, floss is not up to that, buy a fine filter sock, add the Lf to the sock very slowly then change after a few hours.

That is the reason your po4 is not dropping as the LF isn’t being removed.

It’s not good for fish so I would do a few 20% water changes to remove all the LF you have already added then start again with the sock.

but the po4 is dropping, its just climbing back up

 

[Miami Reef]

I can’t see either.05-.08 (your target) or .16 (actual) is causing your issue.

It’s actually 1.6ppm. Not 0.16ppm.

Floss is most likely not good enough, you are trying to remove extremely tiny molecules, floss is not up to that, buy a fine filter sock, add the Lf to the sock very slowly then change after a few hours.

Correct, however, that wouldn’t cause phosphate to climb back up. The lanthanum phosphate precipitate would either be skimmed out or settle somewhere. It wouldn’t cause PO4 to release under normal tank conditions.

The phosphate is climbing because the rocks are releasing bound PO4. It will eventually deplete, but it will take a while of consistent PO4 removal to achieve a stable, lower level.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

ok im glad i received your input. i was just scared continuous use of the chemical will have negative effects. im going on week 2 of every 3 day dosing.

Aside from tang issues, I’m not aware of problems with using it.

 

[ChrisfromBrick]

Aside from tang issues, I’m not aware of problems with using it.

Randy- what are the differences in efficacy of gfo vs lanthanum? What makes one better or worse than the other?

 

[Reef.]

It’s actually 1.6ppm. Not 0.16ppm.

Correct, however, that wouldn’t cause phosphate to climb back up. The lanthanum phosphate precipitate would either be skimmed out or settle somewhere. It wouldn’t cause PO4 to release under normal tank conditions.

The phosphate is climbing because the rocks are releasing bound PO4. It will eventually deplete, but it will take a while of consistent PO4 removal to achieve a stable, lower level.

Feeding would increase po4, that is what I was putting the increase down to, one feeding can add a lot of po4.

It’s obviously not being used correctly as that stuff is strong.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Randy- what are the differences in efficacy of gfo vs lanthanum? What makes one better or worse than the other?

Both are effective. GFO is much more expensive, but is not known to kill anything. GFO will also bind other stuff (some trace elements, organics, etc).

For routine 24/7 use, I used GFO.

 

[Uncle99]

It’s actually 1.6ppm. Not 0.16ppm.

Correct, however, that wouldn’t cause phosphate to climb back up. The lanthanum phosphate precipitate would either be skimmed out or settle somewhere. It wouldn’t cause PO4 to release under normal tank conditions.

The phosphate is climbing because the rocks are releasing bound PO4. It will eventually deplete, but it will take a while of consistent PO4 removal to achieve a stable, lower level.

From 0.08 to 1.6ppm is huge in 24 hours, I don’t buy that increase, unless he’s adding a ton of product, I’m thinking they mean 0.08 to 0.16 which makes better sense.

It’s a year old tank and easily should handle .15-.2ppm. If 1.6ppm, the source of this needs to be found as it would require a ton of LC which I have concerns over the long term.

 

[Trillaman954]

From 0.08 to 1.6ppm is huge in 24 hours, I don’t buy that increase. I’m thinking they mean 0.08 to 0.16 which makes better sense.

It’s a year old tank and easily should handle .15-.2ppm.

i meant 0.08 to 0.16 idk what hes talking about

 

[Miami Reef]

i meant 0.08 to 0.16 idk what hes talking about

Bro. Seriously?!?

This is from the first post in this thread:

I test everyday with Hannah and am able to get it down to .05-.08 but next day it’s always up to 1.1-1.6.

Then i responded asking for clarification:

Do you really mean your phosphate goes from 0.05-0.08ppm to over 1 part per million?

Then you replied to my quote confirming that it was over 1ppm….

last night i tested 0.07 this morning i tested twice, 1.1 then 1.2 hanna

If your phosphates are just going from 0.07ppm to 0.16ppm, then that’s nothing to worry about.

 

[Uncle99]

i meant 0.08 to 0.16 idk what hes talking about

Thanks.
It’s a typo in your original post.

If it rises to .16ppm and stays relatively there, I just leave it, your system is mature and some more phosphate is desired.

If it constantly moves upwards (or downwards) week over week, then we need to see what’s contributing to that unusual rise and take action to stop the change.

 

[Uncle99]

Bro. Seriously?!?

This is from the first post in this thread:



Then i responded asking for clarification:





Then you replied to my quote confirming that it was over 1ppm….




If your phosphates are just going from 0.07ppm to 0.16ppm, then that’s nothing to worry about.

Absolutely correct.
It was a bit confusing.

 

[Miami Reef]

I guess it was.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It wasn’t confusing. It was wrong. Twice in different words.

Done here. lol

 

[Reefering1]

i meant 0.08 to 0.16 idk what hes talking about

Bro. Seriously?!?

This is from the first post in this thread:



Then i responded asking for clarification:





Then you replied to my quote confirming that it was over 1ppm….




If your phosphates are just going from 0.07ppm to 0.16ppm, then that’s nothing to worry about.

It wasn’t confusing. It was wrong. Twice in different words.

Done here. lol

And just like that, you blew it.

 

[Formulator]

ok i just want to make sure im going down the right path with this chemical. i didnt know how unstable my tank was until i got the hannah checker. will a dying acro raise phoshates?

I don’t think it is unstable. I think you just have high phosphates, probably stable around 1.0 ppm. You are dosing too much lanthanum and plummeting the PO4. Then PO4 leaches out of the rocks to re-stabilize at 1.0 ppm. If you continue with lanthanum, do it slowly as @Miami Reef suggested and over a long time. Eventually it will come down, and your corals will be happier with the gradual decrease.