Planted macroalgae tank but liquid fertilizer contains copper?

[HAAAAAAAA]

I wanted to make my 60 gallon tank a planted macroalgae and connect it to my 210g which has a tessalata eel

I wanted to use a liquid fertilizer to dose infrequently since my eel only eats about every other week but the liquid fertilizer contains about 0.0032% of copper per ml

Will this be ok with my eel or should I not risk it and just get the brightwell chaeto grow which is about 3 times the price of this fertilizer

 

[Subsea]

The EPA recomended concentration of copper in municipal drinking water is 1.5ppm.

Heavy metals like copper & zinc are trace minerals that are catalysts for many enzymes & amino acids.

 

[HAAAAAAAA]

Thank you so much! I didn't expect the threads to be made into 3! I apologize

The EPA recomended concentration of copper in municipal drinking water is 1.5ppm.

Heavy metals like copper & zinc are trace minerals that are catalysts for many enzymes & amino acids

 

[HAAAAAAAA]

The EPA recomended concentration of copper in municipal drinking water is 1.5ppm.

Heavy metals like copper & zinc are trace minerals that are catalysts for many enzymes & amino acids.

Would any kelp concentrate work? And do they contain copper aswell?

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

I wanted to make my 60 gallon tank a planted macroalgae and connect it to my 210g which has a tessalata eel

I wanted to use a liquid fertilizer to dose infrequently since my eel only eats about every other week but the liquid fertilizer contains about 0.0032% of copper per ml

Will this be ok with my eel or should I not risk it and just get the brightwell chaeto grow which is about 3 times the price of this fertilizer

It depends on how much you add; 0.0032% is 32 ppm, so each ml is 32 ppm copper. For a 270 gallon system, 1 ml would be ~0.000032 ppm (technically, it would be slightly less than this, I'm rounding for convenience; I'm also ignoring the volume taken up by sand/rock/critters in the tank for convenience, but these would have a fairly significant dent on the total gallonage of the system).

So, 62.5 ml of that fertilizer in 270 gallons would reach 0.002 ppm copper, at which point you could start seeing relatively quick deaths (likely within 1-4 days) of highly sensitive inverts.

The algae would absorb at least part of however much you add, though, so between that absorption and water changes, I don't know that you would use enough to cause issues for eels even if it was building up over time (you would need to use 6.25 liters in 270 gallons to reach 0.2 ppm and ~15.63 liters to reach the therapeutic dose of 0.5-0.6 ppm for ionic coppers like Cupramine, to give a reference here), but it seems like it could end up pretty quickly making the tank uninhabitable for inverts (which may not be an issue depending on the other critters you have in this tank).


So, it's likely fine for fish (even eels) unless you're using a ton of it, but I'd use Chaetogro (which I've heard good things about) if you're hoping to keep inverts in the tank.

 

[Subsea]

Would any kelp concentrate work? And do they contain copper aswell?

I can’t answer what different kelp concentrate products have in them. I have been using kelp concentrate liquids for several years. When I asked for details of micro nutrients I never got an answer other than a generac MSDS response. I am fairly certain that all seaweeds contain traces of copper & zinc. When I sent Gracilaria Hayi to Ward Labratories: the analysis showed 20 ppm cooper when zero cooper was in my ground water makeup with sensitivity down to .001ppm,

I will find the test report and display results here.

The seaweed fertilizer business process too much seaweed to do detailed analysis with each batch. Also, depending on many enviromental conditions including maturity of specific seaweed in respect to reproductive cycle it becomes difficult.

 

[Subsea]

It depends on how much you add; 0.0032% is 32 ppm, so each ml is 32 ppm copper. For a 270 gallon system, 1 ml would be ~0.000032 ppm (technically, it would be slightly less than this, I'm rounding for convenience; I'm also ignoring the volume taken up by sand/rock/critters in the tank for convenience, but these would have a fairly significant dent on the total gallonage of the system).

So, 62.5 ml of that fertilizer in 270 gallons would reach 0.002 ppm copper, at which point you could start seeing relatively quick deaths (likely within 1-4 days) of highly sensitive inverts.

The algae would absorb at least part of however much you add, though, so between that absorption and water changes, I don't know that you would use enough to cause issues for eels even if it was building up over time (you would need to use 6.25 liters in 270 gallons to reach 0.2 ppm and ~15.63 liters to reach the therapeutic dose of 0.5-0.6 ppm for ionic coppers like Cupramine, to give a reference here), but it seems like it could end up pretty quickly making the tank uninhabitable for inverts (which may not be an issue depending on the other critters you have in this tank).


So, it's likely fine for fish (even eels) unless you're using a ton of it, but I'd use Chaetogro (which I've heard good things about) if you're hoping to keep inverts in the tank.

Thank you for calculating ppm and detailing tolerance levels. I have not had the results that you detailed in your post. I don’t doubt the academic research you sight, however my experiences with flame scallops, sea apples and deep water nps gorgonians being in the system don’t agree.

For the sake of this discussion, I will get a regional laboratory to test cooper in my tank and in the seaweeds growing in the tank.

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

Thank you for calculating ppm and detailing tolerance levels. I have not had the results that you detailed in your post. I don’t doubt the academic research you sight, however my experiences with flame scallops, sea apples and deep water nps gorgonians being in the system don’t agree.

For the sake of this discussion, I will get a regional laboratory to test cooper in my tank and in the seaweeds growing in the tank.

Oh, the tolerances were scholarly, the issues were speculative - I don't know how effective the various macros are at taking up copper or how much fertilizer would be needed for the tank, so it may not be an issue at all (plus many inverts have much higher tolerances than the 0.002 ppm listed).

I do know some seaweeds are very effective at absorbing copper and other metals, so I trust you that yours are relatively high in them.

 

[HAAAAAAAA]

It depends on how much you add; 0.0032% is 32 ppm, so each ml is 32 ppm copper. For a 270 gallon system, 1 ml would be ~0.000032 ppm (technically, it would be slightly less than this, I'm rounding for convenience; I'm also ignoring the volume taken up by sand/rock/critters in the tank for convenience, but these would have a fairly significant dent on the total gallonage of the system).

So, 62.5 ml of that fertilizer in 270 gallons would reach 0.002 ppm copper, at which point you could start seeing relatively quick deaths (likely within 1-4 days) of highly sensitive inverts.

The algae would absorb at least part of however much you add, though, so between that absorption and water changes, I don't know that you would use enough to cause issues for eels even if it was building up over time (you would need to use 6.25 liters in 270 gallons to reach 0.2 ppm and ~15.63 liters to reach the therapeutic dose of 0.5-0.6 ppm for ionic coppers like Cupramine, to give a reference here), but it seems like it could end up pretty quickly making the tank uninhabitable for inverts (which may not be an issue depending on the other critters you have in this tank).


So, it's likely fine for fish (even eels) unless you're using a ton of it, but I'd use Chaetogro (which I've heard good things about) if you're hoping to keep inverts in the tank.

So in short terms it's better to spend more money than to have a more expensive loss of inverts

I really appreciate your in-depth analysis, you have saved me quite a bit on inverts!

 

[HAAAAAAAA]

I can’t answer what different kelp concentrate products have in them. I have been using kelp concentrate liquids for several years. When I asked for details of micro nutrients I never got an answer other than a generac MSDS response. I am fairly certain that all seaweeds contain traces of copper & zinc. When I sent Gracilaria Hayi to Ward Labratories: the analysis showed 20 ppm cooper when zero cooper was in my ground water makeup with sensitivity down to .001ppm,

I will find the test report and display results here.

The seaweed fertilizer business process too much seaweed to do detailed analysis with each batch. Also, depending on many enviromental conditions including maturity of specific seaweed in respect to reproductive cycle it becomes difficult.

The price for those kelp concentrates was quite tempting until i read that they too can contain copper, haha, thank you for sharing your knowledge and info! That was indeed quite interesting, it seems that plants can either save up nutrients in them or had gotten the copper from the kelp concentrate

 

[HAAAAAAAA]

Oh, the tolerances were scholarly, the issues were speculative - I don't know how effective the various macros are at taking up copper or how much fertilizer would be needed for the tank, so it may not be an issue at all (plus many inverts have much higher tolerances than the 0.002 ppm listed).

I do know some seaweeds are very effective at absorbing copper and other metals, so I trust you that yours are relatively high in them.

My tank will most likely will only be filled with caulerpa prolifera and with what I have is a red gracilaria though I don't know the exact species, but the more algaes I find the more my planted tank will be stocked

 

[Subsea]

The price for those kelp concentrates was quite tempting until i read that they too can contain copper, haha, thank you for sharing your knowledge and info! That was indeed quite interesting, it seems that plants can either save up nutrients in them or had gotten the copper from the kelp concentrate

For certain, plants/seaweeds can store heavy metals when available in the water and use them from storage when not available. I spilled 500 ml of ferric iron in a 55G growout tank of Gracilaria Hayi. The water turned red with obstructed visibility. I changed nothing. After 3 days the water was crystal clear and I noted that the G. Hayi had thickened with many raised bumps along the frond flats. After two weeks with no further dosing of iron, everything cleared up and I started back up on iron supplements until I started using liquid seaweed.

I can’t tell you what the seaweed uses cooper for. I do know that zinc as a heavy metal woke up my pecan orchid and allowed nutrients in the soil to be uptaken by pecan trees to produce bumper crops every year.

PS:
As I see it, Chaeto grow is an inorganic fertilizer and kelp concentrate is an organic fertilizer. And neither I nor @Randy Holmes-Farley know how seaweed organic fertilizer is processed.

It works for me.

 

[HAAAAAAAA]

For certain, plants/seaweeds can store heavy metals when available in the water and use them from storage when not available. I spilled 500 ml of ferric iron in a 55G growout tank of Gracilaria Hayi. The water turned red with obstructed visibility. I changed nothing. After 3 days the water was crystal clear and I noted that the G. Hayi had thickened with many raised bumps along the frond flats. After two weeks with no further dosing of iron, everything cleared up and I started back up on iron supplements until I started using liquid seaweed.

I can’t tell you what the seaweed uses cooper for. I do know that zinc as a heavy metal woke up my pecan orchid and allowed nutrients in the soil to be uptaken by pecan trees to produce bumper crops every year.

PS:
As I see it, Chaeto grow is an inorganic fertilizer and kelp concentrate is an organic fertilizer. And neither I nor @Randy Holmes-Farley know how seaweed organic fertilizer is processed.

It works for me.

I apologies for bringing in a different topic but I just thought of upgrading my current led bulb to a full spectrum led light which as a kelvin of 6000k is this a good colour spectrum?

 

[Subsea]

I apologies for bringing in a different topic but I just thought of upgrading my current led bulb to a full spectrum led light which as a kelvin of 6000k is this a good colour spectrum?

It’s your thread. Go where you want.

I use 5,000k- 10,000k. Depends on what I have on hand.

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

I apologies for bringing in a different topic but I just thought of upgrading my current led bulb to a full spectrum led light which as a kelvin of 6000k is this a good colour spectrum?

Yeah, that spectrum looks fine to me.

 

[GARRIGA]

NSW has copper and plants require it and really depends on how much being added.