Pistol shrimp killing fish?

[JayM]

Here's a quick video of my Tiger Pistol and YWG. It may give you a better idea of whether or not it's the same shrimp you have.

 

[ZanaZoola14]

Yeah, there are actually quite a few Alpheid shrimp that look superficially similar to the Tiger Pistol Shrimp, Alpheus bellulus (such as A. rugimanus, which I've seen stores starting to sell as Tiger Pistol Shrimp recently) - some of them may not be as peaceful as it is (some Alpheus species are confirmedly not reef-safe, I haven't looked much into how safe ones that may resemble A. bellulus are though).

OP, if you can get some clear pics of the top and sides of the shrimp under white light, I may be able to ID it for you - as is, I will say I'm doubtful that's an A. bellulus, as the pattern looks slightly off on the top (particularly by the head), and I can't see the typically fairly ornate patterning on the sides (there is some variation in the pattern/color to these shrimp, but yours still looks off from all the variations that I'm familiar with from what I can see).

Pistol Shrimp tend to get a really bad reputation that (from what I can tell) isn't really deserved. A true A. bellulus or A. randalli (the Randall's Pistol Shrimp) should be peaceful/defensive - they really shouldn't go hunting at all.

Bit of an info dump here:





Anyway, OP, to try and rule out other potential causes: Are any of the fish exhibiting other issues - things like fast breathing, white spots on the body, etc.?

Ok, thanks.

I guess I am going fishing in the tank today to try and get him out. If I catch him I'll take some photos of him underneath the whites so you can see him more clearly.

On the final fish left there is no further signs except skittishness and hiding away. No rapid breathing, no white spots, no rubbing against other objects.

Overnight, my bumblebee snail has been killed — the shell is completely cleaned out as well. My nass snails seem to have also suffered the same fate.

 

[ZanaZoola14]

Yeah, there are actually quite a few Alpheid shrimp that look superficially similar to the Tiger Pistol Shrimp, Alpheus bellulus (such as A. rugimanus, which I've seen stores starting to sell as Tiger Pistol Shrimp recently) - some of them may not be as peaceful as it is (some Alpheus species are confirmedly not reef-safe, I haven't looked much into how safe ones that may resemble A. bellulus are though).

OP, if you can get some clear pics of the top and sides of the shrimp under white light, I may be able to ID it for you - as is, I will say I'm doubtful that's an A. bellulus, as the pattern looks slightly off on the top (particularly by the head), and I can't see the typically fairly ornate patterning on the sides (there is some variation in the pattern/color to these shrimp, but yours still looks off from all the variations that I'm familiar with from what I can see).

Pistol Shrimp tend to get a really bad reputation that (from what I can tell) isn't really deserved. A true A. bellulus or A. randalli (the Randall's Pistol Shrimp) should be peaceful/defensive - they really shouldn't go hunting at all.

Bit of an info dump here:





Anyway, OP, to try and rule out other potential causes: Are any of the fish exhibiting other issues - things like fast breathing, white spots on the body, etc.?

I've done my best. I stripped the tank, and dug him out. The two missing fish didn't appear, so my vote now is they are gone. I've attached everything taken, so some are likely blurry. The video was taken from another device that was able to focus on him better.

He'll be going into the pest tank for easier access to him for more photos. As I don't want to need to strip the tank again.

Hopefully they are clear enough for you to see. Strangely, I don't know if the camera caught it, part of his body (right next to his head so like his neck) has a purple shine to it. Is that meant to be that colour? As it certainly took me off guard when it shined.

 

[ZanaZoola14]

Video didn't seem to add. And forgot to mention how the shrimp is bigger than the two fish that went missing.

If it doesn't add now, I am not sure 100% what to do. As this video is the clearest out of them all. And this is a shortened version of it

 

[ZanaZoola14]

Here's a quick video of my Tiger Pistol and YWG. It may give you a better idea of whether or not it's the same shrimp you have.

Thank you, mine doesn't seem to look the same to that, looking to miss the patterning that tigers have.

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

Video didn't seem to add. And forgot to mention how the shrimp is bigger than the two fish that went missing.

If it doesn't add now, I am not sure 100% what to do. As this video is the clearest out of them all. And this is a shortened version of it

I can see the video - as a tip for the future, though, most people upload their videos to a site like YouTube and then link the video here from there (Reef2Reef struggles with videos sometimes).

So, your shrimp is definitely from the Alpheus djeddensis – Alpheus djiboutensis complex; I've seen a bunch of places (at least five or six) selling shrimp from this complex as Tiger Pistol Shrimp, which may explain some of the difference in reported behavior from people. I'm guessing your shrimp is Alpheus sciolii, but I would need very clear, straight-on pics of the head from the top, the tail from the top, the side near where the head and tail sections of the body meet (specifically of the big dark spot) from the side, and the second pair (second from the front specifically) of the walking legs.

Alternatively, if you know specifically which ocean/region of the ocean the shrimp came from, that can also be useful for ID purposes here.


For some good pics of species from the complex to compare with, you can look through the links below:
(Figures 7 & 8 - specifically C & D in 8)

Alpheus sciolii Anker 2022, sp. nov. - Plazi TreatmentBank

tb.plazi.org

(Figure 2)

Alpheus djeddensis Coutiere 1897 - Plazi TreatmentBank

tb.plazi.org

species: Alpheus sciolii in Lizard Island Field Guide (Lizard Island Field Guide)

lifg.australian.museum

(Figure 8)

https://lkcnhm.nus.edu.sg/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/app/uploads/2017/06/S34rbz343-454.pdf

 

[ZanaZoola14]

I can see the video - as a tip for the future, though, most people upload their videos to a site like YouTube and then link the video here from there (Reef2Reef struggles with videos sometimes).

So, your shrimp is definitely from the Alpheus djeddensis – Alpheus djiboutensis complex; I've seen a bunch of places (at least five or six) selling shrimp from this complex as Tiger Pistol Shrimp, which may explain some of the difference in reported behavior from people. I'm guessing your shrimp is Alpheus sciolii, but I would need very clear, straight-on pics of the head from the top, the tail from the top, the side near where the head and tail sections of the body meet (specifically of the big dark spot) from the side, and the second pair (second from the front specifically) of the walking legs.

Alternatively, if you know specifically which ocean/region of the ocean the shrimp came from, that can also be useful for ID purposes here.


For some good pics of species from the complex to compare with, you can look through the links below:
(Figures 7 & 8 - specifically C & D in 8)

Alpheus sciolii Anker 2022, sp. nov. - Plazi TreatmentBank

tb.plazi.org

(Figure 2)

Alpheus djeddensis Coutiere 1897 - Plazi TreatmentBank

tb.plazi.org

species: Alpheus sciolii in Lizard Island Field Guide (Lizard Island Field Guide)

lifg.australian.museum

(Figure 8)

https://lkcnhm.nus.edu.sg/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/app/uploads/2017/06/S34rbz343-454.pdf

Thanks, I can see if I can dig him out of the pest tank? Or would that be too much stress to catch him twice in one day? So you want a picture of the head and tail from above, the side where there is a dark mark from the side and the second pair of walking legs from the side?

I don't know where this shrimp was from unfortunately.

Thanks, I'll have a look at all of them.

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

Thanks, I can see if I can dig him out of the pest tank? Or would that be too much stress to catch him twice in one day? So you want a picture of the head and tail from above, the side where there is a dark mark from the side and the second pair of walking legs from the side?

I'd probably give the shrimp a day or two to be safe, then catch it and put it in a shallow container of tank water for the pics (if you can get a black background behind it for the pics, that would be ideal).

Yeah, head and tail from above (I need to be able to see the middle parts of each clearly, and a couple extra parts next to the middle parts of the head), the dark spot from the side (preferably without a leg in the way), and the second pair of walking legs from the side and/or front (I need to be able to see the relative length of one of the leg joints/segments on that pair of legs).

 

[ZanaZoola14]

I'd probably give the shrimp a day or two to be safe, then catch it and put it in a shallow container of tank water for the pics (if you can get a black background behind it for the pics, that would be ideal).

Yeah, head and tail from above (I need to be able to see the middle parts of each clearly, and a couple extra parts next to the middle parts of the head), the dark spot from the side (preferably without a leg in the way), and the second pair of walking legs from the side and/or front (I need to be able to see the relative length of one of the leg joints/segments on that pair of legs).

Thanks, it will likely end up being after the weekend. But I'll see if I can attempt late tomorrow maybe.

Ok, I'll hopefully be able to sort out something with a black background.

 

[dwarfseahorse]

Here's a quick video of my Tiger Pistol and YWG. It may give you a better idea of whether or not it's the same shrimp you have.

That

Here's a quick video of my Tiger Pistol and YWG. It may give you a better idea of whether or not it's the same shrimp you have.

That is exactly what the pair I have look like. They paired up within 15 minutes of putting them in the tank together. I now spend more time watching them than I do anything else. They are quite a team and so far they don't bothere other fish or the corals. They are way to busy digging tunnels.

 

[ZanaZoola14]

I'd probably give the shrimp a day or two to be safe, then catch it and put it in a shallow container of tank water for the pics (if you can get a black background behind it for the pics, that would be ideal).

Yeah, head and tail from above (I need to be able to see the middle parts of each clearly, and a couple extra parts next to the middle parts of the head), the dark spot from the side (preferably without a leg in the way), and the second pair of walking legs from the side and/or front (I need to be able to see the relative length of one of the leg joints/segments on that pair of legs).

Hopefully these work, I attempted a black background but he was never in the correct place for it.

There is a lot of photos, probably some not in view/blurry, but I hope that there is correct ones among them. If not I'll see about getting some more.

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

Hopefully these work, I attempted a black background but he was never in the correct place for it.

There is a lot of photos, probably some not in view/blurry, but I hope that there is correct ones among them. If not I'll see about getting some more.

These are a bunch of great pics - you got the tail perfectly, and it reinforces my belief that you have an Alpheus sciolii (the middle part of the tail - called the telson - is used to distinguish Alpheus sciolii from Alpheus djiboutensis; broader telson = A. sciolii [which is reported to have the broadest telson of the complex], narrower telson = A. djiboutensis).

That said, I realized I messed up a bit on the directions for the head and leg *facepalm.*

I should have said side pics of the *first* pair of walking legs (I forgot the claws are technically legs) - I need to be able to see the first two sections of the leg below the "knee" (the first two subarticles of the carpus) clearly. (If the first subarticle of the carpus is slightly longer than the second, it's A. sciolii; if it's the same length, it's A. djeddensis).

For head, I think I can see the part that needs to be seen well enough in a couple of the pics, but - long story short - the head has two pairs of antennae (one on top, one on bottom) and a little thing (called the scaphocerite) in between the antennae (in between from top to bottom, that is) with a spiky part (the scaphocerite spine), a flat and round part (the scaphocerite blade), and a feathery rim on the flat and round part on the side by the center of the body.

I need to be able to see the scaphocerite blade's length in relation to the antennae, but - realizing where the blade is located on this species (I had only really looked at the blade on different kinds of shrimp before, sorry) - I honestly wouldn't bother with trying to get better pics of it.

The pics of the legs can be used to distinguish Alpheus sciolii from A. djeddensis as well, so pics of the scaphocerite blade aren't really necessary.



TLDR; Most likely either A. sciolii or A. djeddensis - pics of the first walking leg from the side can be used to distinguish which.

 

[cuzzoo3345]

Here's a quick video of my Tiger Pistol and YWG. It may give you a better idea of whether or not it's the same shrimp you have.

I wish my candy cane pistol shrimp and Hi Fi Red Banded Goby acted like yours!!! I see my candy cane pistol every day. Haven’t seen my Hi Fin Red Banded Goby in almost two weeks. I have a lid so he didn’t jump out. My candy cane pistol was snapping like krazy this evening in the Hi Fin Red Banded goby and pistol shrimps cave , hopefully my Hi Fin Red Banded Goby didn’t get busted up!!

 

[legionofdoon]

All my pistol shrimps have been model citizens. Im always a bit skeptical when people say their pistol killed anything. They have a water jet to deter other inhabitants away not a Glock.

Mine most definitely was a gangster. YMMV but I'll never get the tiger variety again.

 

[carol3]

Too bad it isn't a Randalls, mine is great, they remain small. My YWG is twice the size of my shrimp. I do hear him snap off and on, I've had him for almost two years now and nothing has gone missing or died. I do hear him snapping sometimes but he has bristle worms in his tunnels and I think he tries to warn them off, he's so small I'm pretty sure they just laugh at him. I got mine from Allysa's Seahorse Savvy, a really stellar seller.

 

[Rallic]

Looks like a Tiger Pistol to me. If it is, there's little to no chance that it's killing anything. They just aren't known to do that.

I know it's purely anecdotal, but I have two firefish that often sleep in the same burrow that my Tiger Pistol and YWG reside in. I've also witnessed the shrimp drag smaller snails into his lair, but they always emerge unscathed within a few minutes.

I have a 3" tiger, 2 emeralds one with a body 1.25", hes big but its claw is not large enough to do the damage i have seen... a cleaner shrimp and a peppermint. out of all of them nothing has a claw other then the tiger pistol that could leave a matching claw mark at a 45' angle across my Tomini Tang going from under his tail to 3/4s to the top of his back. i am missing my Flame hawk that was 3" his self, 2 months ago found the bonded YWG in 2 parts down the middle, one fire fish mia and 2 more only the front of them. back 1/2 missing. always at night, and i would say emeralds before the pistol, only there no way its claw is big enough to do the damage.

i never feed meat and i think this might be why. and ill bet its the same for others who have pistols that kill. last night the forehead of my Tomini Tang, there is a pinch on either side of its forehead almost taking the eye. i didn't believe it could be him either. iv been trying to get my 2 emeralds out of the tank thinking it was the big one. but after trapping it 2 days ago this is still going on. is there a chance something is in the tank that hitchhiked in? sure. 60x24x30 tank with 200lbs of live rock gives a lot of hiding spots, and this system is 2 years old. but i have not seen anything. i blame hermits for it but i only have blue legged hermits that are quite small, but anyways a Red Sea Star was pulled apart over 2 days. my lettuce sea slug is MIA , again lots of hiding but 4 days is not normal for it. i dont know but i do believe that just because its not normal dont mean anything in this hobby. i will try and find a ways to trap the shrimp and drop it in the sump and see if it stops. baring that i really do not want to brake 2 years of corals down to find the problem........

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

I have a 3" tiger, 2 emeralds one with a body 1.25", hes big but its claw is not large enough to do the damage i have seen... a cleaner shrimp and a peppermint. out of all of them nothing has a claw other then the tiger pistol that could leave a matching claw mark at a 45' angle across my Tomini Tang going from under his tail to 3/4s to the top of his back. i am missing my Flame hawk that was 3" his self, 2 months ago found the bonded YWG in 2 parts down the middle, one fire fish mia and 2 more only the front of them. back 1/2 missing. always at night, and i would say emeralds before the pistol, only there no way its claw is big enough to do the damage.

i never feed meat and i think this might be why. and ill bet its the same for others who have pistols that kill. last night the forehead of my Tomini Tang, there is a pinch on either side of its forehead almost taking the eye. i didn't believe it could be him either. iv been trying to get my 2 emeralds out of the tank thinking it was the big one. but after trapping it 2 days ago this is still going on. is there a chance something is in the tank that hitchhiked in? sure. 60x24x30 tank with 200lbs of live rock gives a lot of hiding spots, and this system is 2 years old. but i have not seen anything. i blame hermits for it but i only have blue legged hermits that are quite small, but anyways a Red Sea Star was pulled apart over 2 days. my lettuce sea slug is MIA , again lots of hiding but 4 days is not normal for it. i dont know but i do believe that just because its not normal dont mean anything in this hobby. i will try and find a ways to trap the shrimp and drop it in the sump and see if it stops. baring that i really do not want to brake 2 years of corals down to find the problem........

Do you have any pics of your tiger pistol shrimp?