Phosphate question.

[thatone08]

Tank has been running about 4-5 months now. And it’s still going through a bit of the uglies.

Ammonia- 0-.2 somewhere in that range. Red Sea test kit
Nitrite-0 Red Sea test kit.
Nitrates- 29.5 Hanna high range nitrate checker
Phosphate- 0.26 Hanna UL phosphate checker.
Calcium -481 Hanna calcium checker
Alkalinity- 8.2 Hanna alkalinity checker.
PH- 7.6 Red Sea kit. I’m thinking it might be lower due the vial not matching any colors, or the tint is not dominate enough for me to tell.

Nitrate is a little over what I would like but better then the 54 I had last week. And previous weeks before then.

phosphate. Is higher then it was last week. I have a bag of chemipure blue I picked up since a lot of people have suggested it’s use while browsing threads. How fast does it lower phosphate? Fully understand that nothing good happens a fast, just looking for a ball park to give it isome time for it to work. Is my phosphate too high. See the ideal range to be at as .05 some people suggest lower. If it is high, and I use chemipure should I be worried about it bottoming out the phosphate.

currently all the coral look to be happy. Getting new polyps from the zoas. Duncan growing new heads. So I’m not overly concerned but the phosphate stunting coral growth, but would like to prevent that from becoming an issue.

Thanks for taking the time to read my rambling.

 

[Righteous]

Chemipure blue won’t really do anything to reduce phosphate. It’s just activated carbon and a resin that might bind a small amount of organics.

You can run something like BRS GFO (granular ferric oxide), or PhosBan (same product, different company). If you start with about half the recommended dose, you should start to see phospate levels reduce slowly.

 

[thatone08]

Chemipure blue won’t really do anything to reduce phosphate. It’s just activated carbon and a resin that might bind a small amount of organics.

You can run something like BRS GFO (granular ferric oxide), or PhosBan (same product, different company). If you start with about half the recommended dose, you should start to see phospate levels reduce slowly.

Thanks for the clarity. Have a 10 dollar off promo code for BRS, so I think I’ve made up my mind on which one to get lol.

 

[JohnMzreef]

While a protein skimmer does not directly lower phosphate, I find that they do so indirectly. Sometimes quite well. (Sometimes too well even.)
Also, It seems like you are chasing numbers. How does your tank look?
Also, it could be that the bottleneck in your tank is carbon. I would suggest add 1 drop vodka per 25 gallons per day. No need to ramp it up further - its a microdose. Try it.

 

[Bravoman]

While a protein skimmer does not directly lower phosphate, I find that they do so indirectly. Sometimes quite well. (Sometimes too well even.)
Also, It seems like you are chasing numbers. How does your tank look?
Also, it could be that the bottleneck in your tank is carbon. I would suggest add 1 drop vodka per 25 gallons per day. No need to ramp it up further - its a microdose. Try it.

No is this like real vodka and what does it do in the system? Sry new on this subject.

 

[jmichaelh7]

Run some gfo , like others mentioned you need to run half dose and check in half a day to see where your at before you potentially bottom out

 

[GoNextLevel]

Is this a troll? lol

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

No is this like real vodka and what does it do in the system? Sry new on this subject.

Yes. Organic carbon dosing to drive bacteria.

Nitrate in the Reef Aquarium - REEFEDITION

Nitrate is an ion that has long dogged aquarists. It is typically formed in aquaria through the digestion of foods, and in many aquaria it builds up and can be difficult to keep at natural levels. In the past, many aquarists performed water changes with nitrate reduction as one of the primary...

www.reefedition.com

Organic Carbon Dosing

Organic carbon dosing involves adding a soluble organic compound to the aquarium which spurs bacterial growth. Typical organics used can be ethanol (as vodka), acetic acid (as vinegar), calcium acetate (as lime saturated vinegar), sugar (sucrose) and many others. Vodka and vinegar are by far the most popular. I use vinegar.

These organic molecules can be used by many organisms, including corals, but the main intent is to drive bacterial growth. To grow, the bacteria need a source of nitrogen and a source of phosphate, and a large portion of these they remove directly from the water. The bacteria may grow out of sight (inside live rock or sand, in refugia, in tubing, etc.). They may also grow in globs in the display tank. They have to grow somewhere. If they become unsightly, try dosing a different organic that may drive a different set of species that may grow in a different location. I’ve had them often seem to grow on GAC (granular activated carbon media) in a canister filter I previously used, allowing relatively easy export by rinsing the GAC once every couple of weeks.

I’ve never heard any plausible argument why dosing multiple organics at once is desirable, but many people do it and there is likely no harm in doing so. The idea that multiple organics drive a diversity of bacterial species is just speculation, and even if true, I don’t see the benefit.

The bacteria themselves can then be skimmed out, or used as a food for filter feeders, or both (most people probably have both to some extent, unless they do not use a skimmer). The bacteria may grow partly in low O2 regions (such as in sand or rock) and partly in highly oxygenated environments. Since metabolism in low O2 regions uses relatively more nitrate than phosphate compared to metabolism in a high O2 environment, the relative amounts of nitrate and phosphate reduction an aquarists observes may vary from system to system.

Nitrate is always reduced to a greater extent than phosphate simply because bacteria need a lot more nitrogen than phosphorus, but metabolism of organics in low O2 regions may skew it even more, and sometimes can leave the aquarium with little nitrate and an excess of phosphate that they bacteria don’t “want”. In such a case, a phosphate binder might usefully export this remaining phosphate. Alternatively, some aquarists have dosed nitrate directly to the aquarium to allow the residual phosphate to be consumed.

These linked articles describe vinegar and vodka dosing in more detail.

One potential drawback that may have played a role in some tank problems is that the bacteria that thrive when organic molecules are dosed may be benign (and appear to be in almost all cases), but might actually be pathogenic in others. That is, the added organics may enhance bacterial infections if those bacteria causing the infection (of fish, corals, etc.) are able to take up the added organics and use them to grow faster. I think this risk is low, but it may be real. If you have unexplained problems that might fit this description, and are organic carbon dosing, try not dosing for an extended period.

A second potential drawback of organic carbon dosing is the potential for proliferation of unsightly cyanobacteria in the display tank. There are many species of cyanobacteria, and some can consume the organics we add in this method. If they become a primary consumer, then something may need to be done, such as switching to a different organic compound to dose, or reducing phosphate with a binder such as GFO (granular ferric oxide).

 

[Bravoman]

Yes. Organic carbon dosing to drive bacteria.

Nitrate in the Reef Aquarium - REEFEDITION

Nitrate is an ion that has long dogged aquarists. It is typically formed in aquaria through the digestion of foods, and in many aquaria it builds up and can be difficult to keep at natural levels. In the past, many aquarists performed water changes with nitrate reduction as one of the primary...

www.reefedition.com

Organic Carbon Dosing

Organic carbon dosing involves adding a soluble organic compound to the aquarium which spurs bacterial growth. Typical organics used can be ethanol (as vodka), acetic acid (as vinegar), calcium acetate (as lime saturated vinegar), sugar (sucrose) and many others. Vodka and vinegar are by far the most popular. I use vinegar.

These organic molecules can be used by many organisms, including corals, but the main intent is to drive bacterial growth. To grow, the bacteria need a source of nitrogen and a source of phosphate, and a large portion of these they remove directly from the water. The bacteria may grow out of sight (inside live rock or sand, in refugia, in tubing, etc.). They may also grow in globs in the display tank. They have to grow somewhere. If they become unsightly, try dosing a different organic that may drive a different set of species that may grow in a different location. I’ve had them often seem to grow on GAC (granular activated carbon media) in a canister filter I previously used, allowing relatively easy export by rinsing the GAC once every couple of weeks.

I’ve never heard any plausible argument why dosing multiple organics at once is desirable, but many people do it and there is likely no harm in doing so. The idea that multiple organics drive a diversity of bacterial species is just speculation, and even if true, I don’t see the benefit.

The bacteria themselves can then be skimmed out, or used as a food for filter feeders, or both (most people probably have both to some extent, unless they do not use a skimmer). The bacteria may grow partly in low O2 regions (such as in sand or rock) and partly in highly oxygenated environments. Since metabolism in low O2 regions uses relatively more nitrate than phosphate compared to metabolism in a high O2 environment, the relative amounts of nitrate and phosphate reduction an aquarists observes may vary from system to system.

Nitrate is always reduced to a greater extent than phosphate simply because bacteria need a lot more nitrogen than phosphorus, but metabolism of organics in low O2 regions may skew it even more, and sometimes can leave the aquarium with little nitrate and an excess of phosphate that they bacteria don’t “want”. In such a case, a phosphate binder might usefully export this remaining phosphate. Alternatively, some aquarists have dosed nitrate directly to the aquarium to allow the residual phosphate to be consumed.

These linked articles describe vinegar and vodka dosing in more detail.

One potential drawback that may have played a role in some tank problems is that the bacteria that thrive when organic molecules are dosed may be benign (and appear to be in almost all cases), but might actually be pathogenic in others. That is, the added organics may enhance bacterial infections if those bacteria causing the infection (of fish, corals, etc.) are able to take up the added organics and use them to grow faster. I think this risk is low, but it may be real. If you have unexplained problems that might fit this description, and are organic carbon dosing, try not dosing for an extended period.

A second potential drawback of organic carbon dosing is the potential for proliferation of unsightly cyanobacteria in the display tank. There are many species of cyanobacteria, and some can consume the organics we add in this method. If they become a primary consumer, then something may need to be done, such as switching to a different organic compound to dose, or reducing phosphate with a binder such as GFO (granular ferric oxide).

Thanks appreciate it.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks appreciate it.

You're welcome.

Happy Reefing.