Coral snow is like a magnet for detritus, creating larger particles, and everything will go nuts eating it.
Phosphate Limited Nitrate Reduction
- Thread starter Treefer32
- Start date
The calcium carbonate is simply a flocculent. The stuff really binds organics... and that slime is very organic. The intent is for it to then be removed by filter socks, skimmers, and etc. I'm not a chalice guru but I imagine the the slime is due to stress of all the stuff blowing around.
OP
OP
My fish weren't sure what to make of the large particles. They looked at it but swam away from it. LOL. Some of it might be too old of detritus... Lol.
Sounds like the corals were irritated.
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I agree, the chalice definitely was not happy with the changes. No other corals or fish reacted and this morning, it's phenomenal the night an day difference in clarity. This must be one way people get their fish to look like they're just hanging in mid air! Might also be a new way to clean my gyres -- In tank.. Their screens look much cleaner too. Heh.
Rocks have that new after water change shine to them, without a water change. There's no amount of filtration other than 50% water changes per week that give the tank that kind of new shine.
I don't know that I'll dose daily, but I may dose a smaller dose every 2-3 days and shut the return pump off for an hour instead of 15 minutes to prevent it from being filtered out right away. I want to get a picture of the chalice slime monster when it's got multiple layers of slime suspended vertically up from it. I have a love / hate relationship with the chalice. It kills anything within 6 inches of it.
I'm thinking of further reducing the vodka dosing. But want to get one more test this weekend before making the decision to see if things have stabilized, falling, or climbing.
My I have two hypothesis:
1. The water change temporarily knocked nutrients down: 50% water change. Nitrates came in at 14.4, previous nitrate test prior to water change was 27. So, well within the expected outcome. So, I would expect nitrates to start rising. The reason I'm not sure I agree with this is the data isn't what I was expecting. I did the water change Last Friday 9/30. I tested Wednesday 10/5. I would have expected a larger increase in 6 days if this was temporary.
2. The water change knocked nutrients down enough for vodka dosing to be more effective and balanced possible missing elements:
Everything I've read on carbon dosing is nutrients needed to be low (preferably below 20 ppm) for denitrifying bacteria to take off. I don't understand the reasoning for this, but, it could also be that if the water is too dirty the bacteria can't work as well? With nitrates constantly between 28 and 44 ppm, maybe just not the right conditions?
If that's the case, then maybe if the nitrates stay low enough consistently, the vodka will become more effective and things can stabilize? I've also noticed my alk consumption increasing, daily. Going down from 10.3 (post water change with reef crystals) down to 9.3 in 5 days that's while maintaining my normal dosing regimen.
Will be interesting to see Friday's or Saturday's test results. 1 week post large water change.
I'm hoping for hypothesis #2, but suspect Hypothesis #1 will be the result. Just, the realist in me.
Remember that nothing good happens fast in a reef tank. Don't try too much too fast. I don't understand the alk consumption change. It could be precipitating out a little due to the calcium carbonate but I don't understand the chemistry behind that, or the clarity has increased light penetration and growth has increased. Juts guessing though.
Clarity is the big reason for using the calcium carbonate. Remember though, when it binds organics, they are still in the system unless removed. Doing it a couple hours before a water change is a good strategy so you can suck out the stuff. Running filter socks/mats/floss is good to run for a while afterwards. Even removing the slime with a net or your hands will help. I think the skimmer will get some also, but I'm not 100% sure.
Clarity is the big reason for using the calcium carbonate. Remember though, when it binds organics, they are still in the system unless removed. Doing it a couple hours before a water change is a good strategy so you can suck out the stuff. Running filter socks/mats/floss is good to run for a while afterwards. Even removing the slime with a net or your hands will help. I think the skimmer will get some also, but I'm not 100% sure.
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Yeah. I assumed my reef mat would grab most of it. My skimmer was producing some crazy dark colored foam. This morning the foam is pure white. Interesting changes.
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I also think the alk consumption could be from my corals now that the water is cleaner. I don't see visible signs of new growth yet. But just hoping that's the case.
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So, my Hypothesis #1 appears to be correct so far. Or the Calcium carbonate is having a huge impact. I honestly don't know which.
Tests from Saturday show: Nitrates at 11.3, Phosphate at 0.0 and Alk at 9.4.
That's the lowest nitrates have been since I probably started the tank! That's with decreasing vodka dosing by 23 ml per day from 70 ml per day to 47. Today I reduced it down to 35 ml per day, cutting my dosing regimen in half!
I don't know if it's getting nitrates under 20 caused the bacteria to take off or if it's the calcium carbonate being filtered out by my skimmer and roller mat. I've only dosed the calcium carbonate twice last week. The second time I cut the dose in half.
I checked my algae turf scrubber and it looks to be a gross mix of hair algae and bacterial. It's extremely slimey. So, maybe the bacteria found a new home? My PH Is still pretty low everyday, which tells me there's still a lot of bacteria in the tank even with half the vodka dose. It's dropping to 7.92 at night and 8.00 during the day. It used to be 8.1 and 8.4 respectively. Here's to hoping the vodka stays just as effective at lower doses and PH starts to pick up a little.
Tests from Saturday show: Nitrates at 11.3, Phosphate at 0.0 and Alk at 9.4.
That's the lowest nitrates have been since I probably started the tank! That's with decreasing vodka dosing by 23 ml per day from 70 ml per day to 47. Today I reduced it down to 35 ml per day, cutting my dosing regimen in half!
I don't know if it's getting nitrates under 20 caused the bacteria to take off or if it's the calcium carbonate being filtered out by my skimmer and roller mat. I've only dosed the calcium carbonate twice last week. The second time I cut the dose in half.
I checked my algae turf scrubber and it looks to be a gross mix of hair algae and bacterial. It's extremely slimey. So, maybe the bacteria found a new home? My PH Is still pretty low everyday, which tells me there's still a lot of bacteria in the tank even with half the vodka dose. It's dropping to 7.92 at night and 8.00 during the day. It used to be 8.1 and 8.4 respectively. Here's to hoping the vodka stays just as effective at lower doses and PH starts to pick up a little.
Carbon dosing techniques would direct that vodka input be reduced when seeing a lot of bacterial slime. The pH drop could be from excess organic in the water column. Reducing vodka even more could help that. I might suggest you reduce it slowly each week until you see a nitrate rise. Also, watch out for 0 phosphate as the carbon dosing process does not work without some being available.
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OP
Great points. Yeah, I'm doing 1 reduction in dosing a week to see what the impact is the following week then adjusting accordingly. Nothing good ever happens fast in a reef. I am worried about the low phosphates, but the fact that algae grows on my glass within 2 days tells me there's phosphates in there. Just consumed by the algae. I'm hoping another reduction of 10-15 ml per day will stabilize the nitrates and allow me to get back to doing what I need to - -
Catch a fish and if nitrates and phosphates start repopulating the corals I want that have died due to too many nitrates and phosphates. (Namely hammers, frogspawn and elegance coral).
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