Phos keep climbing

[HighlandReef]

Having an issue with Phos climbing, tried cleaning everything but didn’t really do much.

My phos keep climbing and I’m starting to think it’s leaching from the rock.
I tried vac sand, blowing off rock with power head, cleaned sump, cleaned my frag tank (plumbed in with main display).
Cleaned pumps, skimmer, Ca reactor, etc.
Stopped feeding pellet and just fed frozen but didn’t really make a difference. I normally feed both.
I am keeping phos .05 or slightly lower with dosing lanthanum chloride but if I stop, phos starts climbing.
Nitrates are in check, nitrates always hover between 4-5. I have those ceramic style bio balls in the sump and they have been keeping nitrates in check.
I carbon dose vinegar but not much anymore, only 6ml per day.
210 display, 40 breeder and 40g sump. Everything is plumbed together, run off a manifold.

I’m about to try Dr Tim’s waste away but figured I would check here before dumping it in the tank.

Alk. 9.5
Nitrates 4.6
Phos .05
Ca 420
Mag 1450
No ammonia

 

[strich]

Note: I'm not an expert yet so confirm what I say yourself.

I believe 0.05 phosphates is perfectly acceptable, with 0.1 being the general watermark to be happy to be around. So it might not be worth stressing about it so much that you're making big changes, unless you think its going to rocket past 0.1.

Do you have any macroalgae in your tank? Any chaeto or caulerpa is great at removing phosphates and nitrates, and may be all you need to help increase biodiversity in your tank and create a new phosphate/nitrate sink.

 

[Snoopy 67]

Every time you feed you add phosphates, It's a never-ending battle.

 

[HighlandReef]

Note: I'm not an expert yet so confirm what I say yourself.

I believe 0.05 phosphates is perfectly acceptable, with 0.1 being the general watermark to be happy to be around. So it might not be worth stressing about it so much that you're making big changes, unless you think its going to rocket past 0.1.

Do you have any macroalgae in your tank? Any chaeto or caulerpa is great at removing phosphates and nitrates, and may be all you need to help increase biodiversity in your tank and create a new phosphate/nitrate sink.

It will go past .1 if I do nothing.
Basically, will just keep climbing.
I’m able to keep it in check with dosing lanthanum chloride, dosing about 7ml per day. It’s strong stuff so doesn’t take a lot to keep it down.
If I just let it go, it will just keep creeping up.
Takes about 1.5-2 weeks to get up to .1+ and will just keep climbing.

 

[ReeferFive-0]

The thing that seems to be helping me is a small refugium with chaeto, but now I have to dose nitrates to keep things in check.

 

[HighlandReef]

Every time you feed you add phosphates, It's a never-ending battle.

I was going to try benepellet dry food, it’s supposed to be low phos but I’m not finding details on exactly what %.
I am feeding frozen hikari mysis and brine.
I also have some PE and San Francisco Bay brand frozen, same kinds.
Dry food is SA dry hatchery diet, I don’t know what is in this stuff but all my fish love it, they prefer it over the frozen.
I guess I can keep dosing to bring down Phos for now. I think I am going to try to isolate foods by brand and see if it makes a difference.

 

[HighlandReef]

The thing that seems to be helping me is a small refugium with chaeto, but now I have to dose nitrates to keep things in check.

I have tried chaeto several times but it just slowly melts away.
This time, I’m thinking to try putting it in my frag tank instead of the sump.
Not sure if it will make a difference or not?

 

[Snoopy 67]

Most times refugiums are too small.
Algae reactors or turf scrubbers are better.

 

[ReeferFive-0]

I have tried chaeto several times but it just slowly melts away.
This time, I’m thinking to try putting it in my frag tank instead of the sump.
Not sure if it will make a difference or not?

Have you dosed any trace elements? Chaeto also depletes nutrients we typically don't regularly test for. Without supplementation chaeto can die off. I currently test nitrate, phosphate and dose ChaetoGro at half strength each week to keep the chaeto healthy.

 

[Bruttall]

It will go past .1 if I do nothing.
Basically, will just keep climbing.
I’m able to keep it in check with dosing lanthanum chloride, dosing about 7ml per day. It’s strong stuff so doesn’t take a lot to keep it down.
If I just let it go, it will just keep creeping up.
Takes about 1.5-2 weeks to get up to .1+ and will just keep climbing.

I'm dosing 40ml a day lanthum chloride (brightwell phos-e) into a 360g system. You are not alone. Rocks leach phosphate I believe.

 

[HighlandReef]

Have you dosed any trace elements? Chaeto also depletes nutrients we typically don't regularly test for. Without supplementation chaeto can die off. I currently test nitrate, phosphate and dose ChaetoGro at half strength each week to keep the chaeto healthy.

I have not but I will probably give it a try this time.
It just seems if your not dosing one thing, you have to dose for some else, lol!

 

[strich]

I have not but I will probably give it a try this time.
It just seems if your not dosing one thing, you have to dose for some else, lol!

If it starts to go white or off colored then it means it's missing nutrients.

And indeed it's a careful balancing act but there is a balance to find. Remember don't let the chaeto just grow forever - you want just enough to pull your phosphates in check. Once you reach that, then you start trimming.

 

[Pod_01]

I guess I can keep dosing to bring down Phos for now. I think I am going to try to isolate foods by brand and see if it makes a difference.

That would be nice data to have.

Anyways just to add to the confusion I always found frozen food increases phosphates for me. I tried home made, others it always crept up.
Now I am using Fauna Marin Soft Multi Mix pellets and feeding 4 times a day and my PO4 is around 0.12-0.16 and slowly going down. So if you do your experiment maybe you can add FM pellets to your data.
As an aside I don’t use GFO, fuge, socks etc…. I only use skimmer for filtration and bit of GAC. Also I do dose 0.4 ml of carbon source to feed the bacteria, not for nutrient control.
Recent nutrient values:

 

[HighlandReef]

Just as a quick update, fed frozen last night and got some interesting test results today.
My Phos jumped from .05 to .12 within about 24hrs after feeding the frozen.
This is on ~280 gallon system.
210 display, 40 breeder that I use a a frag/grow out tank and a 40g sump.
I fed Hikari mysis and the feed cup seemed very cloudy compared to some of the other frozen.
I let it loose and then thought, I probable should have run it through a screen.
Didn’t think much of it until I tested tonight and when my Hanna showed .12, thought no way and reran the test, second test came back .11, so wasn’t an issue with the first test. Phos spiked from the frozen.
I won’t be just dumping this in the tank moving forward, will definitely melt the frozen food in a cup and run it through a screen.
I went back to SA pellets for now, at least I know I’m able to control the phos with that.
I will need to give it at least a few days before trying my next frozen.
Need to get phos down before proceeding with my little experiment.
Next up will probably be PE mysis but that will likely be sometime this weekend.
Need to get the phos down first.
I’m also going to pick up some Fauna Marin Soft MultiMix, that is supposed to be low phos food.
I’m logging all my findings so this should get interesting, lol!