PBT in QT treat or not , what should I do?

[gettergejetter]

Hi everyone,

so here is another question in the net about powder blues in qt and possible diseases. I've probably read all of them but I would like to have you guys opinion on my personal case.

I have a Powder Blue Tang in QT since exactly 3 weeks now and it is eating very well since the first day. He eats green and red nori and frozen brine and mysis very quickly when I put it in and I think he's getting fatter each day . He's also very active and swims around all the time. He's about 3.5 inches long so not a very small one.

When I bought him I looked at him for about 40 minutes at the store and he looked healthy to me, except for one place on his side which seemed to be a little bit lighter than the rest and looked like it was a little swollen but it was barely visible so I figured at that time it must be fine (he still has it without noticable changes). Also the store owner told me he had him since 3 weeks which made me confident that it is one of the healthier specimens around.

Now since he's in QT I noticed him scratching on surfaces, but very rarely which made me unsure if he has some disease or if it's normal behaviour. Sometimes I don't see him scratching for hours and then he does it a few times in a row (I'm able to observe a lot because he's in my office).

Yesterday I looked at him very closely and think I saw a very very very small dot on one of his fins and the alarm went off. I couldn't see if the dot is white or an other color because it is so small.

I do have some Tremazol (praziquantel) and JBL Oodinol (Copper sulfate pentahydrate + methylthioninium chloride) on hand to start treatment but I'm very hesitant.

Tremazol seems to be a good product but I'm not sure with the Oodinol, I can't find any good information about it and I can't get any Cupramine or Copper Safe in Switzerland so this is what I have to work with.

There are a few factors making me hesitant:

- I'm not sure if he really has something
- I'm not sure if I should start with Praziquantel or Copper
- I'm afraid of using copper again because last time I treated fish almost all of them died. The story here is that I had a major outbreak (I think it was velvet but not sure) in the DT after a temperature swing during summer and I had to remove all fish (about 15 fish) in to a 25 gallon tank which stressed them even more and almost no one did it through the QT. Only two Chromis barely survived. After that I've gone fallow for the recommended time before adding the Chromis and new fish back in.
- I did the same error twice (because I was lazy) by not QT'ing all my new fish. So now I have 15 fish again in my DT and none of them has gone through QT. Also never noticed anything on them but I know it could be there.

So what in your opinion should I do? I want to keep the PBT for sure and at the same time minimise the risk of infecting the fish in DT if there is nothing. Or am I wasting my time by trying to treat the PBT because there could be something in the DT anyway? Should I further observe the PBT before doing something? Should I put him in and try to control the disease if there is any? There are so many variables and I'm holding these meds in my hands every day without overcoming myself to use them. I don't really have a problem with the praziquantel (almost put it in today) but more with the copper. Also if the small dot on his fin is ich I should probably start with copper anyway but I figured that the lighter surface on his side could maybe also be flukes?

So as you can see I'm quiet confused about how to proceed, any help would be greatly appreciated

The PBT will be the last fish going in so I don't want to ruin everything with him and do all I can to have a good ending with him.

p.S: sorry for my english it's not my native language

 

[Storm Trooper Reefer]

Your English is fine. My only recommendation is do one thing at a time. Do not mix and match things. Members will ask you to post a picture. Glad to see you QT and doing things slowly.

 

[piranhaman00]

Always treat with copper regardless of spots or not, then you will not have regrets

 

[gettergejetter]

Your English is fine. My only recommendation is do one thing at a time. Do not mix and match things. Members will ask you to post a picture. Glad to see you QT and doing things slowly.

Thank you, but as I said this is the only fish I've put in QT because I know how vulnerable PBT can be to ich etc. I fear there is no point treating him because the others didn't went through QT. Will post a pic but there's no way I'll be able to catch the dot on his fin on cam.

 

[gettergejetter]

Always treat with copper regardless of spots or not, then you will not have regrets

Hi, am I not wasting my time because the others haven't been through QT? Am I not unnecessarily putting the PBT at risk with the copper?

 

[rirun]

Have you looked at peroxide? I’ve used it several times and had no issues.

Hybrid TTM to treat all parasites!

10/9/2022: Jay Hemdal and the current Fish Medic staff are suggesting that people find other treatments rather than TTM. It has some substantial drawbacks: “Tank chasing” method (Tank Transfer Method - TTM) A mostly theoretical method for treating Cryptocaryon infections takes advantage of...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[gettergejetter]

Have you looked at peroxide? I’ve used it several times and had no issues.

Hybrid TTM to treat all parasites!

10/9/2022: Jay Hemdal and the current Fish Medic staff are suggesting that people find other treatments rather than TTM. It has some substantial drawbacks: “Tank chasing” method (Tank Transfer Method - TTM) A mostly theoretical method for treating Cryptocaryon infections takes advantage of...

www.reef2reef.com

Hi, no I didn't look at it in detail because I've mostly read about copper and prazi. I'll start gathering information about it right now thx

 

[Squidward]

I'd do TTM with prazipro.

 

[rirun]

Check out humble.fish for a bunch of people having success with it. There’s a running post of all the fish that have been put through peroxide and the results.
Good luck!

 

[threebuoys]

What size is your Display Tank, do you have any coral or invertebrates in it, how long have the other fish been in it?

 

[gettergejetter]

What size is your Display Tank, do you have any coral or invertebrates in it, how long have the other fish been in it?

It's a red sea reefer 525xl (DT: 108 Gal, Sump: 31 Gal). I do have corals and inverts. Last fish went in about 4 month ago I think, maybe more.

 

[threebuoys]

I understand your predicament. At this point, you assume your DT is free of crypto/ich since it hasn't shown in over 4 months, but you don't know for sure since nothing was quarantined with copper. You are also concerned about treating the PBT in QT with copper because of your past experience with copper. If the PBT has crypto/ich, you don't want to introduce it to thje DT. On the other hand, if the crpto/ich has is already in the DT but dormant, you don't want to put the PBT in.

Sounds like either option has risks difficult to gauge. Perhaps @Jay Hemdal is more familiar with the copper product you have available in Switzerland and can offer more perspective.

 

[gettergejetter]

I understand your predicament. At this point, you assume your DT is free of crypto/ich since it hasn't shown in over 4 months, but you don't know for sure since nothing was quarantined with copper. You are also concerned about treating the PBT in QT with copper because of your past experience with copper. If the PBT has crypto/ich, you don't want to introduce it to thje DT. On the other hand, if the crpto/ich has is already in the DT but dormant, you don't want to put the PBT in.

Sounds like either option has risks difficult to gauge. Perhaps @Jay Hemdal is more familiar with the copper product you have available in Switzerland and can offer more perspective.

Yes, that's more or less it. I think at this point I'm more stressed about the decision to take here than the fish in QT

 

[gettergejetter]

I'd do TTM with prazipro.

Maybe TTM would be the best option for me if I had a second QT tank on hand which I don't have :-( . Do you think using a plastic container as second tank would be enough? Would I need a filter if the fish is in only for 3 days? If I can just take a plastic container with heater and little pump this could actually be the best route to go for me, since I'm unsure about the copper. Would probably need quiet a big container for the PBT?

 

[gettergejetter]

I'm still trying to get a good pic of him but none of them is sharp enough, he's also a little camera shy I think. Will post if I manage to get a good one.

 

[rirun]

There’s another option using peroxide and that is continually dosing within the tank. There should be a post regarding that as well.
Since starting using less aggressive QT methods and focusing on buying healthy fish from reputable LFS, I only use peroxide. I either do it as the hybrid TTM or I will continually dose peroxide into the qt and not actually transfer the fish into a new qt tank. With either method, I don’t utilize a filter, just an air stone and a wave maker and prime to control any ammonia spike between either the transfer or a water change.

 

[gettergejetter]

Ok, I still didn't look into peroxide yet but I think I know what I'll do. I never really considered doing TTM for some reason but this seems to be the best method for me. I think it's definitely better for the fish than putting copper in. I'm just a little bit worried about the stress put on the fish during transfer, what's your experience with this?

I've got a big translucent container which is perfect for the job and I'll grab heater, air stone and wave maker tomorrow at the store. Just need to decide when to treat with prazi.

The situation is definitely not perfect since there is still a big risk that I already have something in the DT but at least after the TTM and some time of observation before putting him in the DT I'll have done what I can. If he gets something in the DT I'll have to go the ich management route. If there is velvet I'm screwed if I'm not wrong, except if the peroxide would eventually take care of it but I've to read it up. If it's the case I'll also try the peroxide, will see.

@rirun @Squidward is there really a risk of the ammonia being too high in just three days in the container/tank if he gets new water for each transfer?

Thank you all so far for your inputs. I didn't know what to do for days now and just posting here helped me to reflect better about the situation.

If someone has other tips or opinions I would really appreciate to hear/read them. Every input is very helpful.

 

[rirun]

I put a kole tang through it (as well as several angels, clowns, a purple fire fish and a diamond tail flasher wrasse) successfully. The kole was pale throughout the entire qt process and would be a bit dramatic when i did the 30 minute baths but pulled through like a champ and colored up shortly after putting her into my display.

I did try it on a friends purple tang that had advanced velvet. I think it might have been too far gone by the time I was able to start the bath and died within 48hrs.

Just make sure that the container you are using is food safe.

Hard to say since i dose Prime daily when I QT now. Since you wouldn't be medicating the water, you could also do small daily water changes to reduce waste and ammonia levels. Also try not to overfeed during the process.

Hybrid TTM Clinical Trials

Use this forum to document your experiences & results with Hybrid TTM.

humble.fish

Hybrid TTM Discussion

Use this forum to ask questions and for general Hybrid TTM discussion.

humble.fish

Fish + peroxide compatibility list

Please list all fish (and their scientific name) you have used H2O2 on + ppm concentration & duration (how long?) so I can begin compiling a list. Also mention if you noticed any adverse reactions either during or after the bath. Currently the “standard” is to treat @ 150ppm for 30 minutes as...

humble.fish

 

[vetteguy53081]

Always if possible. They and also achilles tang.

Take it from someone who did not and 4 days later, had a tank infested with velvet and lost nearly $1000 in fish especially buying it from a source in which i know was going to be an issue

 

[gettergejetter]

I put a kole tang through it (as well as several angels, clowns, a purple fire fish and a diamond tail flasher wrasse) successfully. The kole was pale throughout the entire qt process and would be a bit dramatic when i did the 30 minute baths but pulled through like a champ and colored up shortly after putting her into my display.

I did try it on a friends purple tang that had advanced velvet. I think it might have been too far gone by the time I was able to start the bath and died within 48hrs.

Just make sure that the container you are using is food safe.

Hard to say since i dose Prime daily when I QT now. Since you wouldn't be medicating the water, you could also do small daily water changes to reduce waste and ammonia levels. Also try not to overfeed during the process.

Hybrid TTM Clinical Trials

Use this forum to document your experiences & results with Hybrid TTM.

humble.fish

Hybrid TTM Discussion

Use this forum to ask questions and for general Hybrid TTM discussion.

humble.fish

Fish + peroxide compatibility list

Please list all fish (and their scientific name) you have used H2O2 on + ppm concentration & duration (how long?) so I can begin compiling a list. Also mention if you noticed any adverse reactions either during or after the bath. Currently the “standard” is to treat @ 150ppm for 30 minutes as...

humble.fish

Thx again for your reply. What do you mean with "food safe"?