OK am opinionated but it annoys the heck out of me.

atoll

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As per the thread title, if there is one thing in this hobby that annoys me (well OK there is more than one) it's people responding to questions with the phrase "it's normal behaviour". This is the response when it should more often be quite clear it's abnormal behavior that you the aquarist has created to bring on such behaviour in your fish.

Fish swimming up and down the front glass of your tank, fish afraid to venture out due to bullying. Fish bobbing near the surface and my special pet hate clownfish doing all kinds of strange things from hiding in the corner of the tank to doing somersaults etc etc.

Why would anybody think that's natural at all esp the clowns I ask you? We creat the environment for our fish but often it appears to me we create the environment including the reefscape then think about what fish we want to keep later. I mean the royal we obviously as not everybody thinks this way.

I mention clownfish and people suggesting these normal abnormal behaviours as ...well normal behaviour because the environment created is far from normal for them. Putting clowns in a tank without a suitable anemone isnt given the clowns what they want nor IMO need to be content. I have always kept clowns with a host anemone and never saw any exhibit these so called normal activities or behaviours.

Now I know often people don’t want to put an anemone in their tank for a whole host of reasons from being considered difficult to keep to ending up in a powehead. Anemones are not difficult to keep they just need consideration the same consideration you should give your fish. That includes lighting, water conditions and yes the environment you creat for them.

Yes I am opinionated but my opinions are based on keeping these magnificent creatures, both anemones and clownfish for many years and observing them in the wild on the reef. If you want to keep say common clowns provide an anemone with one of their anemones of choice or don't kepp clowns at all.

I make no apologies for that and I know I may well have rattled a few cages there.

By now you will nodoubt have guessed I am passionate about clowns and Anemones and believe there is no finer sight in this hobby of ours than a Magnifica anemone with resident clowns spawning and tending their eggs. You can disagree on that point lol.

Finally my tank isn't natural but it is as natural as I can reasonably make it (you will have to put your own interpretation of reasonable here). IMO we should all strive to make our fishes home as natural and stress free as we can and that takes a lot of thought and planning.

Sorry for the rant, I feel a whole lot better for it now its off my chest. :>)
 
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atoll

atoll

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200g tank with bubble tip and sebae but my pair of clowns lay eggs on my wall hammer and choose to host the wall hammer or a red gonipora instead. Clowns are weird. And I disagree that they need an anemone.
Am not suggesting you need an anemone to keep clowns only to keep them happy. It also depends on what clowns you have with what anemone. EG a BTA with common clowns is not their natural anemone even if they will often reside in one. I have hammers and torch corals either of my clowns give them a second look.
 

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It's a dog eat dog (or fish eat fish) world. It is normal behavior for fish to prey on one another. This is why it is so important to choose your fish carefully.
 

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Thanks for posting this. I have a clownfish and I've been feeling bad for him because he always seems so stressed out at night. During the day he's good and likes to play in my hammers. I haven't wanted to get an anemone but I believe I will get one for him soon now. Hes a jerk but I really enjoy him.

Also would anyone know the reason the clownfish will suck on the tips of a hammer coral? It's something mine loves to do like he's doing drugs.
 

i cant think

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Apparently some people call the likes of this "natural behaviour"


If that was in an anemone (or anemone style coral) then it may be slightly more natural but even then, they swim in and out of the tentacles of their host in the wild.
My clown used to behave naturally but for some reason this morning she decided to leave her host coral (Ricordea yuma) and is now hanging out infront of my cave behind the purple Sinularia. P.S. I’m aware that actually my clown isn’t a natural type and is instead a hybrid that likely won’t occur in the wild.
image.jpg
 
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atoll

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Thanks for posting this. I have a clownfish and I've been feeling bad for him because he always seems so stressed out at night. During the day he's good and likes to play in my hammers. I haven't wanted to get an anemone but I believe I will get one for him soon now. Hes a jerk but I really enjoy him.

Also would anyone know the reason the clownfish will suck on the tips of a hamimer coral? It's something mine loves to do like he's doing drugs.
There are various theories to why clowns suck on the tentacles of their anemone. Some suggest it might stimulate the production of the coating on the fishes body that prevents the anemone stinging it.
 
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atoll

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If that was in an anemone (or anemone style coral) then it may be slightly more natural but even then, they swim in and out of the tentacles of their host in the wild.
My clown used to behave naturally but for some reason this morning she decided to leave her host coral (Ricordea yuma) and is now hanging out infront of my cave behind the purple Sinularia. P.S. I’m aware that actually my clown isn’t a natural type and is instead a hybrid that likely won’t occur in the wild.
image.jpg
Of course they swim in and out of their anemone thats inky natural in the wild. My male hardly swims more than a few inches away while my female will swim as far as about 18 to 24" from it esp to take food.
 

Dbichler

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I agree with some of ops points. Clowns will use powerheads returns corals anemones as hosts in smaller tanks ime. In tanks with room clowns will pick the best cave or anemone as possible this of course all depends on fish with them as well if they feel threatened.
 

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So every captive bred clown I've ever had has always no matter the tank or inhabitants picked it's spot and stayed there for the most part. Almost always a favorite corner or overhang. I'm not a big clownfish fan myself but years ago before captive bred they would naturally host nems. Today not so much. Captive bred clowns don't have that instinct naturally. So I don't think they "need" a nem to host. I have 1 clown between 2 big systems and in a 4ft. tank with other mild mannered nano type fish he stays in a 6"x6" area most of the time and moves up to top corner late to sleep. Doesn't care about the dozen or so nems in the tank at all and occasionally will play around with a huge Duncan colony. Normal behavior now is different than normal behavior a decade ago when you could get wild caught ones. You still can occasionally find one but not very common.
 

Tamberav

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Hmm… ya but breeders keep all sorts of fish in unnatural environments…if they don’t breed fish then we go back to taking lots of wild clowns from the ocean…

If you suggest they all get nems and lighting, then price goes up and many hobbiest already rather choose wild if it’s cheaper.
 

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I think there's a distinction to be made between what is 'normal' in a reef tank and what is natural. In addition, neither of those things is necessarily a good thing for the welfare of your fish/coral/whatever.

It's not natural for fish to live in an environment essentially free of predators, but it's likely a good thing and would be considered normal in the hobby. This is not natural, but is normal and likely good for the fish's wellbeing.

It is normal, or common at least, in the hobby for fish to be kept without their natural habitats. Wrasse without sand, or without rock rubble to dive in and out of. This is likely bad for the fish's wellbeing.

In the context of the environment, I don't think it's entirely unreasonable that clowns can be content and happy without an anemone. The function of an anemone being to protect the clowns and make them feel safe from predators. Captive bred clowns that have never even known any such danger, and even wild caught clowns don't face it in the reef tank environment. Maybe they're happy without one?

It is normal and natural for humans to live in shelter, but if we could somehow remove the main reasons we do that, maybe we'd all sleep out in our yards under the stars instead.

Additionally, when someone comments that a clownfish's weird behaviour (in comparison to other fish) is normal, they are trying to express to the person asking the question that their fish isn't currently undergoing anything particularly different to most others in the hobby. I think generally this behaviour is not indicative of any immediate issues that will cause immediate harm or death to the fish.

Finally, I'm far from a marine biologist, but my experience from encounters with clowns in the wild is that they do exhibit at least some of the weird behaviours there too.
 

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Mother's Day Clowns.JPG


I can't tell you if they were wild caught or CB, I spent $100 for the pair 15 years ago.

They rarely venture far from the discoma rock that they spawn on almost monthly. They reside in a 29 gallon tank and have one tank mate most of the time, has been a royal gramma in the past, currently a sixline wrasse. They tend to be the bosses of the tank, but haven't been nippy to my hand in many years.
 

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I agree with the general sentiment that it is not natural for clownfish to act like that. I will say that when people ask if what their clownfish is doing is normal, they just want out if the fish is sick, and the answers of "it's normal" generally serve to state that the fish is healthy, not to suggest that clownfish bob around in corners on the natural reef. While clownfish won't exhibit these behaviors in an anemone, they will without one. Clownfish do fine without an anemone, so in the context of that particular fish in that particular tank without an anemone, swimming in that manner is normal. Nice magnifica, BTW.
 

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What anenome would you advise for a 25 gallon tank? Magnifica look to get extremely large. I want to make a more natural habitat but with a smaller tank I do not want just 1 nem
 
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So every captive bred clown I've ever had has always no matter the tank or inhabitants picked it's spot and stayed there for the most part. Almost always a favorite corner or overhang. I'm not a big clownfish fan myself but years ago before captive bred they would naturally host nems. Today not so much. Captive bred clowns don't have that instinct naturally. So I don't think they "need" a nem to host. I have 1 clown between 2 big systems and in a 4ft. tank with other mild mannered nano type fish he stays in a 6"x6" area most of the time and moves up to top corner late to sleep. Doesn't care about the dozen or so nems in the tank at all and occasionally will play around with a huge Duncan colony. Normal behavior now is different than normal behavior a decade ago when you could get wild caught ones. You still can occasionally find one but not very common.
I once saw a clownfish breeder release about 70 baby clowns that had never seen an anemone into a tank containing a magnifica. Within a minute all the clowns were in it. That was an amazing sight to see them all in it.
 
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atoll

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What anenome would you advise for a 25 gallon tank? Magnifica look to get extremely large. I want to make a more natural habitat but with a smaller tank I do not want just 1 nem
Depends on the species of clown however, I would suggest with a25 gallon it you shouldn't try a magnifica. Common clowns are only have a couple of natural anemones they host in. Magnificas and Stoicactus types. There is a list of clown species withbthe nems they are most associated with.

 
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