nuclear greens on ebay?

[bryan]

Im pretty sure you wouldnt have any problem with that ebay auction if it said "green button polyps" when in fact they were what you like to call "nuclear greens"

Bingo! we have a winner.

That aside, there are only about 10-12 zoanthids/palys I've ever seen that require a name....ones that are that special. The rest of the time, naming should be a descriptive name that describes the zoathid cluster you are selling, nothing more. Heck, I change names as much as I change underwear! Just ask Whodah about the Blue Kiss :hammer:

 

[bryan]

LOl! Dustin, I agree turd is a wonderful word...but we have to be careful who we use that term with...case in point - we live in an older neighborhood, built in the 60's, block homes, nothing you can do to make them valuable. So the neighbor decides to add an addition (basically to wake me up all hours with his new power tools!) I guess he got disappointed one day when after a few months I had never asked what he was doing. He calls me over the fence one day and asks how I like his project, I say "Never seen a turd polished so immaculately" thinking he may find the humor....nope, lesson learned...just because its a turd, we can't always call it that!

Peace, All in fun guys!

 

[Zeppelin]

I see she has changed the name in the description to Green Button Polyps.

 

[follow3]

Dustin,

What are those on your avatar?
They are awesome. Do you have or prop them?

Thanks,
Steve

 

[reefboy]

reefboy I understand what your saying, but thats apples and oranges. Mallards and canvas backs are both different species of animals, the zoas you have names for are a lot of the same species. I think it comes down to the fact that you only get upset when people mislable stuff that you "think" is rare and valuable. Im pretty sure you wouldnt have any problem with that ebay auction if it said "green button polyps" when in fact they were what you like to call "nuclear greens" Im not trying to call anyone out or anything-but I really think this naming thing has got out of hand.

i dont understand why you think naming a problem the consumer depics weather the coral is of value or not and its avaiblity depic's weather its rare or not just like hot pink yuma's i see alot of peeps use that term for some not so pink ones but ive seen the real deal as im sure you have but to the untrained eye they might spend that money because they think there getting that so thats all were saying here, if there using a name of a sought after coral or frag it should be that just to protect those that may not no any better.

 

[berns]

TyreeUM im not sure you are aware of this activaty by the sounds

the problem really is that when someone copies a name of a known high selling paly etc when its obviously not that which gives those that do know the feeling its used to con the newbie/less knowledgable.

im this case i doubt the seller came up with that name off the top of her head cause its a very well known name assoiated with a particular morph, so its so bloody obvious why the seller try using it.

yes by all means theres no rules as to wat you want to call your coral but copying high selling polyp names rather then choosing your own is wat gripes ppl cause we all know a noob could be conned.

 

[jonbar1]

I've addressed it on other forums, not sure about here, but here's my take on "the name thing". If this should be it's own thread, I apologize in advance.

This is not the only hobby that uses non-scientific names to make certain specimens stand out in the crowd! In all my hobbies involving live plants and animals it is very common and coral are the only hobby I've seen it frowned upon. I think the problem we might be having is that the "clonal" names and "cultivar/strain" names are being combined into one name. Here's some examples:

In the orchid society, plants judged to be the best at a given event can be awarded. There is a big formal convention on what's involved I won't bore you with, but basically if you have an example of a species/hybrid that is deemed exceptional it is awarded and given a Clonal Name to separate it from others of the same type, even it's siblings. Paphiopedilum rothschildianum 'Canadian Club' FCC/AOS for example. A regular blooming size Paphiopedilum rothschildianum will cost you a little over a hundred bucks, whereas a division of this awarded plant (a clone if you will) sells for the tens of thousands of dollars since it is one of the best ever seen and is in much higher demand. An orchid doesn't need an award to have a Clonal Name however, and any piece of it still gets the same Clonal Name as what it came from so you know the exact plant you are getting or using to breed with.

In Killifish, it's a little different. With them, you use a Strain Name. Basically the same species of fish can be found in numerous small ponds and streams and all are a little different to those with an eye for them. To keep these lines separate, they are given a Strain Name to differentiate between them. For example, Fundulopanchax gardneri P-81 and Fundulopanchax gardneri Makurdi. Both look very similar with only minor coloration differences, but killi people want to keep their lines distinct when breeding the next generation. The fish are not genetically identical like when using Clonal Names on plants, but all share similar regional characteristics so when you buy a P-81 you know what markings to expect.

The coral naming is more unique in that it was brought out by hobbiests wanting to be able to differentiate their same species when there was no formal legislature already in place to do so. When I buy a Superman Monti, I don't want some pale blue with orange polyped danae fresh from Fiji! I want a piece of the original or a piece that can be traced to the original so I know exactly what I'm getting and what to expect. People new to the hobby see Marvin or Dave's avatars (not to single you guys out ) and ask "What are those??" They hear the name Nuclear Green and so look for that name from sellers. If they buy something with that name, and don't get what they wanted, it's a crappy lesson to learn, especially early on in the hobby!

The big problem seems to be with more common zoa colonies where instead of lineage tracing, the name is used as a strain name like Fire and Ice or Dragon Eyes. The most controversal one I see is Armor of Gods, and I think it's because of this double edged sword. I personally see the name as a lineage tracing name, or Clonal Name even, and the people wanting to know what they have see it as a Strain Name and wonder why it wouldn't trade for as much as a "True AoG" when it looks similar to the pic on Zoaid.com.

Sorry for the long post, I hope it makes sense!

 

[reefboy]

well said

 

[berns]

well said above, please no one take offence to this

i actually think the word "true" is causing alot more problems, AOG is i agree an obvious multi morph paly that has varies depending as usual on lights etc in my opinion the named picture defines only that morph as there are many, give me a few frags of that colony and ill show you some different morphs through its changes in six months time and then you can all argue over which is the "true" etc.

even the simple dragon eye shows slight morphing in ppl's tanks with varying lighting etc but i dont see arguments to which is the "true" morph cause you all except they the same dragon eyes in different conditions.

the word "true" is being put against certain actual morphs as listed on zoaid when there are obvious other morphs known.

lol ive said this before
i feel the bottom line with most zoas/palys is that a variety name would be cool with an unbrella morph set of pictures, to continue to use the word "true" is only singling out one of many morphs and i can only see one reason why this continues.....to be able to ask higher sell price.

 

[Zeppelin]

While that is true in some cases, there ARE certain coral morphs where 'true' has a specific reason for being there. Jon's example of the superman monti is one. The 'true' superman monti is extremely bright, both in the base color and the polyp color. Lately, there have been montis coming in that have the same colors, but in a much duller version of those colors. With a little photoshop hocus pocus, they can look pretty close to the 'true' superman, if not exact, in pics. Fact is though, that coral is NOT a 'superman', and will, most likely, never color up to be one. These sellers put the 'superman' monikor (sp) on the duller coral to sell it for the high price of the 'true' superman. In this case, the name is used to single out an exceptional version of like color morphs.

In zoanthids, sometimes that is hard to do because they will morph depending on lighting, tank conditions, etc. There are also several color morphs of a specific 'named' zoanthid. An example is Eagle Eyes. I have seen at least 4-6 different color morphs of eagle eyes, all under the same conditions in my systems. From a yellowy orange to a dark red inner coloration, with even slightly different mouth coloration within 1 rock of a morph. Whammin Watermelons are a bright, intense, Eagle Eyes, IMO. Maybe they should be sold as Eagle Eyes 'whammin watermelon' morph? I see zoaid evolving into a site where we can group like zoanthids under one 'name' umbrella, then within that umbrella, show the different morphs, and even the different colors due to lighting. There would definitely have to be a committee/panel formed within the zoanthid community with members from several of the reef forums that have been into zoanthids awhile to get together and 'legitimise' a morph to be included within a color 'name' grouping. All this under the scientific species/subspecies divisions, which is the more important factor anyways.

If we can organize this right, and get the pics out there, it would be great. Until then, call it what ya want. Just do it without the obvious agenda of upselling a morph that isn't what most of us would consider 1 of the morphs from the name you are using. A good example was that ebay 'Nuclear Green'. You can tell that wasn't a nuclear green a mile away.

(Zeppelin climbs off soapbox and heads for the Tequila bottle)

 

[Zoanuts]

Very well put. Thanks for you input Zep!!