Nitrae/Phosphate Ratio - Super high Phosphate, and bottoming out Nitrate.

[DanyL]

Yes it does - thank you. I feed so much that increasing feeding is definitely not the answer. I think the Rods Food I was using must've been high in PO4. I see no other reason why my PO4 would be so high with regular feeding of frozen food, water changes, and macro algae in the back.

Any suggestions on what to add specifically to increase the nitrate along with my PHOSGUARD to decrease phos? (besides more food)

You'll most likely need to dose good amount of nitrate to get to the desired levels, depending on your tank size a DIY solution could be more economically viable, however there are plenty ready-to-use supplements available to purchase from brands like ESV, Brightwell, Seachem and many others. They all would work just fine.

I also recommend to cut off your feedings, bottomed out nitrates wouldn't kill your corals, however bottomed out or extremely high phosphates could.

 

[littlefishy]

Some say that adding a product like NeoNitro is preferable to increased feeding as food increases organics and products like NeoNitro are inorganic nutrients. It sounds good, any thoughts on if this is fact?

 

[Dburr1014]

1.35 ppm lol. Do you mind sharing what product you use specifically?

Loudwolf calcium nitrate, bought it off amazon


Also what do you mean "coming down with the chaeto"? Meaning, adding nitrate, phosphate will come down as cheato uses it.

See replies ^^^^

 

[SauceyReef]

I dose NeoNitro from brightwell aquatics to increase my nitrates and help balance phosphates. I am very happy with it and it works greats for me. I have consistent problems with nitrates bottoming out and this has been an effective solution to that problem. I don't have super high phosphates so I can't speak too much on how well it can be used to lower phosphate levels but mine have dropped from .05~ to non detectable or barely detectable since I started using it. Kept seeing people say "just feed more just feed more" but imo that just isn't effective for raising nitrates. we dose everything else our corals need, just dose it and be done. and honestly at that point you can feed less to help lower phosphate levels since you wont have to chase the nitrates.

I am like almost throwing half a cube of food in daily into a 13.5 evo.. That is when you know you just cant increase feeding anymore lol. For some reason I thought NeoNitro decrease nitrates.. Sounds like something to get in addition with the PHOSGUARD.

Some say that adding a product like NeoNitro is preferable to increased feeding as food increases organics and products like NeoNitro are inorganic nutrients. It sounds good, any thoughts on if this is fact?

Glad to see somone else supporting this

You'll most likely need to dose good amount of nitrate to get to the desired levels, depending on your tank size a DIY solution could be more economically viable, however there are plenty ready-to-use supplements available to purchase from brands like ESV, Brightwell, Seachem and many others. They all would work just fine.

I also recommend to cut off your feedings, bottomed out nitrates wouldn't kill your corals, however bottomed out or extremely high phosphates could.

Good point I will have to keep reminding myself as I continue. I am trying hard to avoid a bottom out, and super high phosphates, but super high phosphates is more lethal. That would be at around? I didn't even know it could get so high with my tank looking fine.. I totally cut out the Rods Food. Just doing Mysis for now.

See replies ^^^^

Do you mean to check the replies for recommended "calcium nitrate"?




It’s crazy though the tank is at such high phosphate levels and seems fine. When could this hypothetically start taking out corals? Here’s the tank at 1.3ppm.

 

[Dburr1014]

Do you mean to check the replies for recommended "calcium nitrate"?

No, let me try again.
You asked me what I use for calcium nitrate. My answer is loud wolf calcium nitrate that I bought off Amazon.

You then asked me about what I mean "coming down with the cheato". My answer for that is by adding no3, the cheato will start pulling down po4.
Right now you are no3 limited. Po4 will not come down without no3 in the system. So adding it will help with that.

Good luck, happy reefing.

 

[SauceyReef]

No, let me try again.
You asked me what I use for calcium nitrate. My answer is loud wolf calcium nitrate that I bought off Amazon.

You then asked me about what I mean "coming down with the cheato". My answer for that is by adding no3, the cheato will start pulling down po4.
Right now you are no3 limited. Po4 will not come down without no3 in the system. So adding it will help with that.

Good luck, happy reefing.

Ahh I see. Really appreciate the clarification. I am trying to find the bottle/brand (loud wolf) you recommended on amazon, but can not seem to find it.

 

[mbmartin06]

Ahh I see. Really appreciate the clarification. I am trying to find the bottle/brand (loud wolf) you recommended on amazon, but can not seem to find it.

You can get it directly from loud wolf here:

Calcium Nitrate

 

[SauceyReef]

I am getting a ton of recommendations to use NeoNitro by Brightwell. I am going to get some now just because it is cheaper. My tank is so small it will last me a while. I could potentially return the PHOSGUARD just using NeoNitro, or use both in really small doses not to get to fast of a down-spike.

Now I have the Loud Wolf Calcium Nitrate to consider as an option also. Wouldn't it be better to try to remove phosphates and let Nitrates naturally climb up seeing my Phosphates are dangerously high?

 

[KStatefan]

You can get it directly from loud wolf here:

Calcium Nitrate

Or Amazon here

Amazon product

 

[SauceyReef]

Or Amazon here

Amazon product

Weird it wasn't showing up for me. Maybe because I put a space in between Loud Wolf. Thank you for sharing. Crazy you can just add this to the tank.

 

[Dburr1014]

Ahh I see. Really appreciate the clarification. I am trying to find the bottle/brand (loud wolf) you recommended on amazon, but can not seem to find it.

It certainly went up in price... Wow!

Check this out! https://a.co/d/ezDowDR

 

[Dburr1014]

I am getting a ton of recommendations to use NeoNitro by Brightwell. I am going to get some now just because it is cheaper. My tank is so small it will last me a while. I could potentially return the PHOSGUARD just using NeoNitro, or use both in really small doses not to get to fast of a down-spike.

Now I have the Loud Wolf Calcium Nitrate to consider as an option also. Wouldn't it be better to try to remove phosphates and let Nitrates naturally climb up seeing my Phosphates are dangerously high?

How will they naturally climb? As soon as it's available it gets used because you have excess po4. Maybe shut your skimmer off at night?

 

[SauceyReef]

It certainly went up in price... Wow!

Check this out! https://a.co/d/ezDowDR

The link @KStatefan added is a really affordable bottle. Remember my tank is a 13.5 gallon, so that bottle he shared that is like $15 would probably last me years. Right now though I feel like I can cut something out of the 3 products I am looking to buy - NeoNitro, PhosGuard, and Calcium Nitrate. I feel like the Calcium Nitrate may be best to cut out, because naturally with removing Phosphates shouldn't my Nitrates just go back up?

 

[SauceyReef]

How will they naturally climb? As soon as it's available it gets used because you have excess po4. Maybe shut your skimmer off at night?

I dont have a skimmer. Correct me if I am wrong but I thought they are inversely related so by decreasing PO4, it will allow Nitrate to become detectable. My nitrates were very high a few months ago, and my PO4 was low. Nothing has changed since than.

 

[Dburr1014]

I dont have a skimmer. Correct me if I am wrong but I thought they are inversely related so by decreasing PO4, it will allow Nitrate to become detectable. My nitrates were super high a few months ago, and my PO4 was low. Nothing has changed since than.

No, that is not correct. I'm going to butcher this.... But, Every living thing needs both. More of nitrates than phosphate.
There is a ratio.
Your nitrate was high and as it decreased it pull down some phosphate with it. You may have added more phosphate than being pulled down so you may have seen phosphate rise, I don't know.
So let's say you have phosphate and no nitrate. Let's also say the ratio they get used is 10 nitrate to 1 phosphate. (made up numbers) The only phosphate that will get used is if some nitrate enters the system. So 10 nitrate gets added from food you just fed the fish. That gets processed by the fish and the cheato gobbles it along with one phosphate. Now the cheato waits for more.
It's the same if it was inversed...if you had more nitrate than phosphate.

Does this help?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The SPS tank they run in the background, is done without fish. Only on Nutrient C N P. I've also known of other folks with 5-10 nitrate adding nutrients N and got a lot more color. They likely use various organic compounds, amino's which then eventually become nitrate if not used up first.

The thing with ATI is they have thousands of ICP tests to fall back on.

Maybe they do, but that's not the way it is described.

In any case, amino acids are OK unless you have a cyano problem, in which case I would not use them.

 

[11f150]

I would take a deep breath and relax. Probably the worst thing you could do is panic and start changing a lot of stuff, especially with the amount of water volume you have. IMO, keep doing what you're doing and only add neonitro. Your phosphates are not super high, I would leave them. Go slow

 

[Kato]

Maybe they do, but that's not the way it is described.

In any case, amino acids are OK unless you have a cyano problem, in which case I would not use them.

Thanks for the reply. In the video they describe it in more detail. Anyway don't want to hijack this thread so let me start another when time permits. I think there's a couple of interesting points here.

 

[SauceyReef]

No, that is not correct. I'm going to butcher this.... But, Every living thing needs both. More of nitrates than phosphate.
There is a ratio.
Your nitrate was high and as it decreased it pull down some phosphate with it. You may have added more phosphate than being pulled down so you may have seen phosphate rise, I don't know.
So let's say you have phosphate and no nitrate. Let's also say the ratio they get used is 10 nitrate to 1 phosphate. (made up numbers) The only phosphate that will get used is if some nitrate enters the system. So 10 nitrate gets added from food you just fed the fish. That gets processed by the fish and the cheato gobbles it along with one phosphate. Now the cheato waits for more.
It's the same if it was inversed...if you had more nitrate than phosphate.

Does this help?

Kind of and I appreciate the attempt. I have been virtually feeding the exact same thing for half a year now. If there is no nitrate in the tank now why is the Po4 not being consumed? Why does Nitrate need to be in the tank for the Phosphate to go down? Or better question, why is my tank consuming Nitrates super fast but not Phosphates?

Also, does anyone know what Chaeto typically consumes more of - Po4 or Nitrates? Or an equal mix?

 

[Dburr1014]

Kind of and I appreciate the attempt. I have been virtually feeding the exact same thing for half a year now. If there is no nitrate in the tank now why is the Po4 not being consumed? Why does Nitrate need to be in the tank for the Phosphate to go down? Or better question, why is my tank consuming Nitrates super fast but not Phosphates?

Also, does anyone know what Chaeto typically consumes more of - Po4 or Nitrates? Or an equal mix?

It's the ratio... More no3 per po4.
Without one or the other, nothing gets consumed.