i could be wrong but as far as im concerned the toxin is a response to threat, such as when fragging. also the toxin is a concern only when the coral is out of water. basically just wear gloves for basic handling but add eyewear and facemask when fragging. also wash hands after you touch anything.
Newbie Palytoxin Concerns
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Thanks for the link to the NIH article. That was really cool. I can already see the movie where someone gets assassinated by injection of PTX while at a tropical location and they decide the person died because he cut his hand on a coral.There's a non-zero probability that it's in your tank even if you don't have zoanthids, but there's also a non-zero probability that it's not in your tank even if you do have zoanthids. So, you might have it in the tank, or you might not.
To my knowledge it’s unconfirmed at this point, but it is suspected that the palytoxin is actually produced by bacteria rather than the zoanthids themselves (which could explain at least in part why palytoxin is found in other organisms like sponges and such). If it is produced by bacteria, then the quantities of the palytoxin producing bacteria in the vicinity of a paly/zoa may determine how toxic it is - this would explain a good deal about the variation in toxicity between specimens of the same species.
My source about it possibly being produced by bacteria (the last paragraph before the section two header):
Palytoxin and Analogs: Biological and Ecological Effects
Palytoxin (PTX) is a potent marine toxin that was originally found in soft corals from tropical areas of the Pacific Ocean. Soon after, its occurrence was observed in numerous other marine organisms from the same ecological region. More recently, several ...www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
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News articles that blame an entire family getting sick on palys simply being present in the house are wrong. Now, boiling palys, sure, that'll mess you up. But them just being in the tank? Nope. That's more likely something like a gas leak.
To start with palytoxin is very dangerous and you are justified to be concerned. The safety measures mentioned above effective methods ot protect yourself from exposure.
Here's some links in addition to @ISpeakForTheSeas refference. Strictly speaking, any marine system that can grow single cell algae in it has the potenital for having palytoxin in it, whether or not it ever had palys/zoas. It's just that palys/zoas have gotten a lot of attention when uniformed aquarists thought the term"cooking" rock meant to literally cook it and made national news by being stuck in an ICU for days because they boiled their live rock and aerisolized palytoxin. FWIW, the only confirmed deaths I've been able to find are individuals that have eaten contaminated seafood and "ciguatera" poisoning is synonymous with palytoxin poisoning.
Clinical and laboratory findings implicating palytoxin as cause of ciguatera poisoning due to Decapterus macrosoma (mackerel)
A near fatal case of ciguatera-related intoxication following consumption of smoked Decapterus macrosoma is documented. In addition to some of the hal…
Molecular identification of Ostreopsis cf. ovata in filter feeders and putative predators
Ostreopsis ovata Fukuyo is a benthic dinoflagellate widespread from tropical to subtropical and warm temperate coastal areas world-wide. Since the spe…
Distribution and sequestration of palytoxin in coral reef animals
In the reefs off the Colombian coast (Caribbean Sea) and around Lizard Island, Australia (Pacific), palytoxin (PTX), which has been detected in zoanth…
There's also this thought provoking and cautionary paper for those who don't think they've been exposed.
The mechanism of action and treatment of palytoxin poisoning
Palytoxin is one of the most potent coronary vasoconstrictors known, producing death within minutes by diminishing the supply of oxygen to the myocard…
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I found an article that’s about 2 years old of a heartland tx man dying from cleaning his tank….that is one of the reasons for the concern.
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Heartland man tragically dies of apparent palytoxin poisoning hours after cleaning aquarium
HEARTLAND, Texas — A Heartland man tragically died of apparent palytoxin poisoning hours after cleaning his household saltwater aquatic tank.
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You’re fine! If by just having one in a tank at some point of it’s life poisoned the water and rocks we’d all be dead lol.. at some point every single coral we have in every single persons tanks has crossed paths with Zoas and palys at some point in there life.. nothing to worry about unless chopping them up..
Heartland man tragically dies of apparent palytoxin poisoning hours after cleaning aquarium
HEARTLAND, Texas — A Heartland man tragically died of apparent palytoxin poisoning hours after cleaning his household saltwater aquatic tank.www.inforney.com
Thank you for the link!
If you have removed them from the tank, I doubt there should be an issue. Run carbon for a while if you'd like.
However, just pointing out that while it may seem ridiculous to some to break down a tank due to palys, for those that don't know Joe Yaiullo of the Long Island Aquarium broke down and bleached a 20+ year old, 20,000 gallon tank primarily to get rid of palythoa (he did a talk at MACNA on it this past year). I had some in my tank (the good ol' brown and green texas trash palys), and I tossed those things. I have some nice colorful zoanthids still. I don't see any reason to keep fairly unattractive, possibly (likely?) toxic corals in my tank that spread everywhere, when there are plenty of more attractive and likely less dangerous alternatives.
However, just pointing out that while it may seem ridiculous to some to break down a tank due to palys, for those that don't know Joe Yaiullo of the Long Island Aquarium broke down and bleached a 20+ year old, 20,000 gallon tank primarily to get rid of palythoa (he did a talk at MACNA on it this past year). I had some in my tank (the good ol' brown and green texas trash palys), and I tossed those things. I have some nice colorful zoanthids still. I don't see any reason to keep fairly unattractive, possibly (likely?) toxic corals in my tank that spread everywhere, when there are plenty of more attractive and likely less dangerous alternatives.
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This doesn't give any details as to what "cleaning" means. Did he attack a palythoas rock with steel wool while leaning his face over it? That'd mess you up pretty badly.Heartland man tragically dies of apparent palytoxin poisoning hours after cleaning aquarium
HEARTLAND, Texas — A Heartland man tragically died of apparent palytoxin poisoning hours after cleaning his household saltwater aquatic tank.
Joe mentioned in his talk he would get symptoms just from diving in the tank. He also referenced a friend who's family got sick when he received some palys on his birthday.
Some things could be coincidence (just because a family gets symptoms, they might actually relate to some other communicative disease than palytoxin), but when Joe mentions getting sick several times (as well as other possible symptoms), and relates it to diving in the aquarium, I think it's worth considering.
Some things could be coincidence (just because a family gets symptoms, they might actually relate to some other communicative disease than palytoxin), but when Joe mentions getting sick several times (as well as other possible symptoms), and relates it to diving in the aquarium, I think it's worth considering.
They won't move; they're glued to the plugs.
My opinion would be that if they are happy with their location in a tank (not stressing), then no, they probably have not released any toxins in the water.
On the other side, maybe a portion of your rockscape collapses and lands on a Paly. In that scenario, I wouldn't be surprised to learn toxins were released.
Enjoy the process!
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Kinda crazy thinking about what a tiny little coral can inflict on a human but our fish are seemingly unaffected.
When I was a careless teen I would gloves off pick up and place zoas, never palys from what I can remember, thankfully never had an issue and I was pretty good about washing my hands constantly.
Now I'm actually researching this stuff and wondering how concerned I should be and if I dodged a bullet for years. I'm not afraid of poisonous things frankly, even tarantulas over time can make you develop allergies that you can't even be in the same room as them anymore, but I do wonder how exactly palytoxin works (I am not a toxicologist so apologies if some of these sound dumb to the way toxins work).
a) how active is it? Does it have a lifetime on surfaces where it only briefly stays 'poisonous' or is a permanently active toxin that once on a surface remains there until removed. Story about the guy who washed old frag plugs makes me believe its a permanent residue.
b) what destroys it? I remember reading vinegar is a big no no as the vapors can also carry it (same guy as method in a), so what cleaning solutions are safe exactly? Does it remain on hand soap bars, and aquarium textures like the glass's silicone?
c) how much does it spread? Does a colony (lets say hand size) getting disturbed render the entire tank a biohazard for a few hours, days, etc until carbon works, or is the poison limited to a general area around the coral and then broken up by the current in a way a dose of it would be unoticable/insignificant?
d) hypothetically, does it spread in a way where if a fish swam and disturbed the coral, it releases the poison, and water splashing out of the aquarium can infect a surface? More specifically in my case, would a mantis beating a crab senseless over a zoa garden result in a biohazard where any maintance would be a risk for awhile?
Frankly I treated every coral I had as if it could blind me, I was always more scared of my giant toadstool leather.
When I was a careless teen I would gloves off pick up and place zoas, never palys from what I can remember, thankfully never had an issue and I was pretty good about washing my hands constantly.
Now I'm actually researching this stuff and wondering how concerned I should be and if I dodged a bullet for years. I'm not afraid of poisonous things frankly, even tarantulas over time can make you develop allergies that you can't even be in the same room as them anymore, but I do wonder how exactly palytoxin works (I am not a toxicologist so apologies if some of these sound dumb to the way toxins work).
a) how active is it? Does it have a lifetime on surfaces where it only briefly stays 'poisonous' or is a permanently active toxin that once on a surface remains there until removed. Story about the guy who washed old frag plugs makes me believe its a permanent residue.
b) what destroys it? I remember reading vinegar is a big no no as the vapors can also carry it (same guy as method in a), so what cleaning solutions are safe exactly? Does it remain on hand soap bars, and aquarium textures like the glass's silicone?
c) how much does it spread? Does a colony (lets say hand size) getting disturbed render the entire tank a biohazard for a few hours, days, etc until carbon works, or is the poison limited to a general area around the coral and then broken up by the current in a way a dose of it would be unoticable/insignificant?
d) hypothetically, does it spread in a way where if a fish swam and disturbed the coral, it releases the poison, and water splashing out of the aquarium can infect a surface? More specifically in my case, would a mantis beating a crab senseless over a zoa garden result in a biohazard where any maintance would be a risk for awhile?
Frankly I treated every coral I had as if it could blind me, I was always more scared of my giant toadstool leather.
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