NEW Vodka and Vinegar Dosing Charts

[Miami Reef]

Yes, text works out just fine. It’s just things like pdf, jpeg, charts and graphs. I had noted Randy’s comments regarding the long ramp up and volumes within this thread. I like to try and read a bit on topics that I find interesting from time to time. I am looking at the other threads linked now. Thanks again! I had cut the dose by 20% as the decline in n was not drastic by any means. Not enough time has elapsed to determine if that is sufficient.

You can also increase the input of N (like ammonium bicarbonate or feeding more) and keep the carbon dose.

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

You can also increase the input of N (like ammonium bicarbonate or feeding more) and keep the carbon dose.

That was a thought. Just a balancing act. Not sure which, or what proportion of ammonium/vinegar is theoretically better. As in, is the processes of converting ammonium or acetate preferred by the organism, or are they essentially equal? I’m not wanting to push the envelope….especially not being able to visually detect negative effects until it’s beyond the point of no return. I think that ammonium has been net positive thus far, based on others comments regarding my tank. Too much of a good thing typically doesn’t end well. There’s also the slight decline in ph to contend with if I up the dose of vinegar. Currently, it’s a non-issue at around a 0.03-0.04 decline. I’m at the evap limit of “limewater” (just for Randy as I can feel his sneer at kalkwasser!) overnight, run a calcium reactor, and have a skimmer basically just to aerate with fresh outside air (not producing skimmate on purpose). Probably overthinking yet again….The actual decline of ph at a higher dose would probably still be negligible in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Scottanne]

Daily if you want it to lower nutrients with my chart.

Thank you!

 

[mikst]

I'm up to 15ml vinegar daily in my little 10gal. Nitrates have come down pretty consistently from 40s to somewhere in the 10 to 20 range (api kit). Phosphates have inched down to around 0.5. pH is not fantastic, but wasn't high before vinegar dosing anyway. I tested it this morning and it's 7.95. I started to think about the pH drop when I inject the 15ml and that seems pretty heavy all at once and I don't care to set up a doser or dripper for a 10 gallon. So, I took an old clean pill bottle that fit in my hob filter. I drilled two 1/32 holes in it. One high and one low on opposite sides. That way when I inject 15ml it very slowly seeps the vinegar out. I was seeing pH dropping to 6 in the filter right after dosing (I was shooting the vinegar into the filter box). Now it dips to like 7.7 or 7.8 for a while.
I'd like high pH, of course. I think I'm gonna end up getting some kalkwasser. I planned on it eventually anyway.
Overall, the tank is quite stable. I've got quite a few happy inverts and little coral frags. I'm enjoying it a lot.
Here's a Pic of inside the hob and the tank in general. Lots of bubbles from the airstone in the filter area.

 

[Miami Reef]

15mL in a 10 gallon is a pretty high dose. Do you get bacterial slime anywhere?

Carbon dosing isn’t very effective for lowering PO4. GFO works much better.

I’m glad your tank is doing well. The pH level is OK. Many tanks have that level without issues.

I can give some suggestions for increasing pH if you’d like, just know your level is OK right now.

 

[mikst]

15mL in a 10 gallon is a pretty high dose. Do you get bacterial slime anywhere?

Carbon dosing isn’t very effective for lowering PO4. GFO works much better.

I’m glad your tank is doing well. The pH level is OK. Many tanks have that level without issues.

I can give some suggestions for increasing pH if you’d like, just know your level is OK right now.

Hi, thanks for the response. I snuck up on the 15 over a month or so with testing. Yes, it does look high from what I've seen others dosing. My goal wasn't to reduce phosphates, that's just an observation. That could simply be asimilatory reduction as creatures grow and use the phosphate in their growth, right? My phosphates only started at like 2 anyway so not crazy and I haven't had any crazy dino out breaks or anything else, just some hair algae and a touch of cyano since I put the Kessel light on.
No, I get no bacterial slime on anything. The glass even stays clean aside from some spot algae growth. My filter media definitely shows bacterial growth tho.

Thanks for reassuring me my pH is OK. I tested the pH in the bags of water from LFS when I brought my emerald crab and nassarius snail home today and it also registered 7.8. They were telling me to shoot for 8.3. While that's not them saying they keep their tanks at 8.3 explicitly, it seems like they might have theirs higher. At any rate, I think it may be time to check the calibration on my pH meter.

I am open to suggestions on increasing pH. I'm here to listen, learn, and share my experiences.

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

So far, so good. I’m on week three so it’s still too early to jump to any conclusions. I did decide to bump up the doses of vinegar and ammonium (to balance out the decline in nitrate). Not having to clean the glass every 2-3 days has been a nice side effect for me. I get to go about 4-5 days between cleanings now. I have had to bump up the calcium reactor a smidge to keep Alk stable. I’ll take that as a positive sign. Honestly, I’m pretty excited with concept behind dosing vinegar and ammonium. Curiously, I have noted that my ammonium and vinegar doses have been proportionate. I’m sure that’s just a coincidence but through several adjustments in keeping nitrate stable it’s landed on a one to one ratio. Something that works out with my ocd! Ha

Daylight side view

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

I’m also curious as to the affect of vinegar on orp. I don’t really pay attention to orp in general but I have observed a downward trend since dosing vinegar. I was thinking that it may be a sign of increased bacteria, but then again I’ve been dosing ammonium for awhile and that did not have a noticeable effect on orp. With ammonium, nitrate starts to increase (well for me, in my very limited experience) when dosing more than needed. So, I know when to adjust. Could the downward trend in orp be an indication that one would need to dial vinegar down a bit? Maybe not necessarily too much vinegar, but too much combined vinegar/ammonium? My other thoughts are that I might need to skim more. Basically my skimmer is just a big air stone bringing in fresh outside air to help ph and not actually producing much skimmate at all. That or my ozone corona discharge is in need of replacement, but that would be a pretty hefty coincidence as far as time frame. I could play around and troubleshoot things but I just thought I’d ask first. If it’s perfectly normal for orp to trend downward I’ll just let it ride. Thanks again

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I’m also curious as to the affect of vinegar on orp. I don’t really pay attention to orp in general but I have observed a downward trend since dosing vinegar. I was thinking that it may be a sign of increased bacteria, but then again I’ve been dosing ammonium for awhile and that did not have a noticeable effect on orp. With ammonium, nitrate starts to increase (well for me, in my very limited experience) when dosing more than needed. So, I know when to adjust. Could the downward trend in orp be an indication that one would need to dial vinegar down a bit? Maybe not necessarily too much vinegar, but too much combined vinegar/ammonium? My other thoughts are that I might need to skim more. Basically my skimmer is just a big air stone bringing in fresh outside air to help ph and not actually producing much skimmate at all. That or my ozone corona discharge is in need of replacement, but that would be a pretty hefty coincidence as far as time frame. I could play around and troubleshoot things but I just thought I’d ask first. If it’s perfectly normal for orp to trend downward I’ll just let it ride. Thanks again

While I do not doubt organic carbon dosing may impact ORP in a whole range of ways (some up and some down), I would not interpret any ORP change as an indication of the amount being used is too large or too small. ORP is just too disconnected from the reasons to use organic carbon.

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

While I do not doubt organic carbon dosing may impact ORP in a whole range of ways (some up and some down), I would not interpret any ORP change as an indication of the amount being used is too large or too small. ORP is just too disconnected from the reasons to use organic carbon.

Thank you sir. I just wanted to be sure.

 

[clicfacil]

Hello everyone,

I am very excited about this post since I have problems with my nitrates and phosphates and although my animals look good I know they could be better....

My aquarium is 120 gallons without sand including the sump, my current values are:

Temperature: 26.1°C
pH: 8.28
Nitrate: 20 ppm
Phosphate: 0.27 ppm
Salinity: 1026 SG
Alkalinity: 8.85 dKH
Calcium: 445 ppm
Magnesium: 1350 ppm.
Osmosis TDS: 0.00 ppm

I have a marine aquarium for more than 20 years, this aquarium has been in operation for 8 years but before this I had a 90 gallon one that worked well with pellets, when I moved to this one the nitrates and phosphates have been a problem, something that does not make much sense because I moved only 2 floors in the same building.. Same water, same climate, same salt, same products BUTnew dead rock (that's where I think the problem is)

I have a bacteria block in the sump and 2 small polyp lab blocks. I run an ats that I clean approximately every 12 days, which does remove algae but something slimy, not filamentous, dark green.

I think my problem is that my bacteria are not in quantity that should help me with nutrients, so I started 2 weeks ago adding microbacter 7 and microbacter clean once a week with a day in between turning off my skimmer for 4 hours, from Then I saw how my nitrates dropped from 0.39 to 0.27 and the skimmer began to produce a darker paste. Everything looks much better, the water is clearer, the corals are more open.... although in the bacteria bottle the manufacturer says that in 2 weeks it is possible that we will not see visible effects, I already see them, but I believe this vinegar method could enhance me in what I'm looking.

for Now I have 3 questions:
1) I keep adding bacteria, I don't know, for about 4 or 6 weeks, do I evaluate the results and start with the vinegar or do I add the vinegar and stop the addition of bacteria?
2) Do I remove the ats? Or can it work in conjunction with the vinegar method?
3) the vinegar they sell in my country says "Distilled and pasteurized, made with 5% sugar cane alcohol, natural flavor and aroma"

I do biweekly 20% water changes.

In my other aquarium I had pellets and they worked well as a carbon source, in this aquarium they do not work well for me, the nutrients remain at those values and I removed them about 3 years ago. I tried NOPOX a couple of years ago and I think although I did it as the label says on the container, I think it was too much since my corals started to die I had to stop it immediately. At that time I don't remember how I had my values.
Sorry for the length of my message but I wanted to put it in context.

Any advice will be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance.

 

[piranhaman00]

This thread finally allowed me to see success with carbon dosing, thank you.

I am up to 200 mls a day in a approx 420 gal system. Nitrate is steadily going down. However, every 24 hours my glass starts to get a film on it which is annoying. Is this part of the gig with carbon dosing?

 

[Reefering1]

This thread finally allowed me to see success with carbon dosing, thank you.

I am up to 200 mls a day in a approx 420 gal system. Nitrate is steadily going down. However, every 24 hours my glass starts to get a film on it which is annoying. Is this part of the gig with carbon dosing?

Is that 200ml of vodka or vinegar?

 

[piranhaman00]

Is that 200ml of vodka or vinegar?

Oh yes vinegar

 

[Reefering1]

Oh yes vinegar

I use vodka, up to 80ml a day in the beginning and around 12ml/day now in a 180g sys(1ml of vodka =8ml of Vinegar) I never seen any bacteria growth on glass but yes that can be a thing. Not a problem. Might not happen with vodka

 

[Miami Reef]

This thread finally allowed me to see success with carbon dosing, thank you.

I am up to 200 mls a day in a approx 420 gal system. Nitrate is steadily going down. However, every 24 hours my glass starts to get a film on it which is annoying. Is this part of the gig with carbon dosing?

Yes. It’s normal. When you find your maintenance dose, the bacterial film should significantly decrease.

The film is mainly cosmetic. The corals might even consume the bacteria when you scrape it.

I’m glad the thread was helpful.

 

[clicfacil]

Hola a todos,

Estoy muy emocionada con este post ya que tengo problemas con mis nitratos y fosfatos y aunque mis animales se ven bien sé que podrían estar mejor....

Mi acuario tiene 120 galones sin arena incluido el sumidero, mis valores actuales son:

Temperatura: 26,1°C
pH: 8,28
Nitrato: 20 ppm
Fosfato: 0,27 ppm
Salinidad: 1026 SG
Alcalinidad: 8,85 dKH
Calcio: 445 ppm
Magnesio: 1350 ppm.
TDS de ósmosis: 0,00 ppm

Tengo un acuario marino desde hace mas de 20 años, este acuario tiene 8 años en funcionamiento pero antes de este tenia uno de 90 galones que funcionaba bien con pellets, al mudarme a este los nitratos y fosfatos han sido un problema, algo que no tiene mucho sentido porque me mudé solo 2 pisos en el mismo edificio.. Misma agua, mismo clima, misma sal, mismos productos PERO roca muerta nueva (ahí es donde creo que está el problema)

Tengo un bloque de bacterias en el sumidero y dos bloques pequeños de laboratorio para pólipos. Utilizo un sistema de filtración ats que limpio aproximadamente cada 12 días, que elimina las algas, pero algo viscoso, no filamentoso, de color verde oscuro.

Creo que mi problema es que mis bacterias no están en cantidad que me deberían ayudar con los nutrientes, así que empecé hace 2 semanas a echar microbacter 7 y microbacter clean una vez por semana con un día de por medio apagando mi skimmer por 4 horas, de ahí vi como mis nitratos bajaron de 0.39 a 0.27 y el skimmer empezó a producir una pasta más oscura. Todo se ve mucho mejor, el agua está más clara, los corales están más abiertos.... aunque en el bote de bacterias dice el fabricante que en 2 semanas es posible que no veamos efectos visibles, yo ya los veo, pero creo que este método con vinagre podría mejorarme en lo que busco.

Por ahora tengo 3 preguntas:
1) Sigo agregando bacterias, no sé, durante unas 4 o 6 semanas, ¿evalúo los resultados y comienzo con el vinagre o agrego el vinagre y dejo de agregar bacterias?
2) ¿Elimino el ATS? ¿O puede funcionar junto con el método del vinagre?
3) el vinagre que venden en mi país dice "Destilado y pasteurizado, elaborado con 5% de alcohol de caña de azúcar, sabor y aroma naturales"

Hago cambios de agua del 20% quincenales.

En mi otro acuario tenia pellets y funcionaban bien como fuente de carbono, en este acuario no me funcionan bien, los nutrientes se quedan en esos valores y los retire hace unos 3 años. Probé con NOPOX hace un par de años y creo que aunque lo hice como dice la etiqueta del envase, creo que fue demasiado ya que mis corales empezaron a morir tuve que pararlo inmediatamente. En ese momento no recuerdo como tenía mis valores.
Perdón por la extensión de mi mensaje pero quería ponerlo en contexto.

Cualquier consejo será de gran ayuda, gracias de antemano.

:cara frunciendo el ceño:

 

[clicfacil]

Nice post.

Perhaps you may like to note that distilled vinegar (which is common in the US) is not the same as fermented vinegar.

Fermented vinegar is very common in some countries and may have some unwanted side effects if used.

Friend,
I want to implement this carbon dosing system with vinegar, but the vinegar sold in my country says "Distilled and pasteurized, made with 5% sugar cane alcohol, natural flavor and aroma"
Do you think I can use it?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Friend,
I want to implement this carbon dosing system with vinegar, but the vinegar sold in my country says "Distilled and pasteurized, made with 5% sugar cane alcohol, natural flavor and aroma"
Do you think I can use it?

I would use it.

 

[clicfacil]

I would use it.

Thanks, I really appreciate your help and response... I'll let you know how it goes tomorrow I start