New Haddoni Carpet Declining

Hot2na · Dec 23, 2023

dieselkeeper said:
You're wasting your time. Treatment is done in sterile tank with no rock or sand. 100 % water change every day.

I wasted my time , more than once and treated the DT with rock and sand = 100 % success ! only did 25-30 pct water change as well...

dieselkeeper · Dec 24, 2023

Hot2na said:
I wasted my time , more than once and treated the DT with rock and sand = 100 % success ! only did 25-30 pct water change as well...

I'm saddened by the struggles people go thru with anemones that usually should be treated. I use a 20 gallon filled half way, 10 gallons, for anemone treatment. Then it's used for QT tank. Mostly to get new fish to eat without other fish present. When my anemone hunt started. I have the treatment tank ready with cipro on hand. A week later, anemone is happy, and I can move on.

jbacker7 · Dec 24, 2023

Whether it’s the clownfish or the anemone being too far past the low dose treatment I think it’s time to get the nem moved into a storage tote QT tank this afternoon as soon as my saltwater is ready. See attached pic from this morning with a log of doses I’ve administered so far.

jbacker7 · Dec 26, 2023

On Sunday, 12/24, afternoon I set up a quarantine tank using a storage tote, heater, and an air pump with two air stones running. No light initially. I matched the salinity and temperature of my stored saltwater and QT to my display tank before moving the anemone. Around 2:00 PM I moved the anemone and administered 250 mg of cipro / 10 gallons of QT water. The anemone was placed on a ceramic dinner plate in QT. It moved itself to extend its foot out sideways and kind of folded itself like a taco. It righted itself and opened up normally, moving around a bit through the day. It's mouth was still wide open.

Around 10:00 PM that night I went to check on it before going to bed. The water was quite cloudy. I used a turkey baster to gently blow some detritus off of it's mouth and found that the interior of the anemone seemed to be deteriorating and coming off in strips. It seemed this was the end. I performed a 100% water change because of the cloudiness and amount of debris in the water. I smelled the anemone when it was out of water and it did not smell.

The next morning, Monday 12/25, the deterioration had continued. I placed a light over the tank on low power. The anemone shrunk up a little and closed its mouth a little. I think it was still alive at that point. I let things go until around 2:00 PM when the water was too cloudy to see clearly and I did a 100% water change and redosed cipro. The anemone smelled pretty bad. At this point I was 99% sure it was gone, but filled the tank back up one last time anyway.

Last night around 6:00 PM, the anemone was clearly gone. It looked like a pile of ground hamburger protruding from it's mouth. I drained the tank one last time before disposing of the anemone in a plastic bag. Like others have mentioned, there was a very putrid smell.

I'm feeling pretty terrible over the whole deal.

I think my last chance to really save the anemone came last Wednesday when I got my cipro. For a lot of reasons I decided to follow the low dose 0.125 mg / L in the display tank protocol. Looking back, I shouldn't have done that. I should have gone into QT at that point and administered at 250 mg / 10 gallons.

Leaving the weakened anemone in with the clowns was also a mistake. After that first big deflate when the clowns kept trying to feed it that shell I could've pulled it even without cipro on hand, but just to get it away from them.

I think @dieselkeeper was ultimately right here. I think that in my inexperience I took deflations for granted and assumed that they were part of an anemones process in adjusting / healing. I think they are more significant than I gave them credit for.

In a few months, when I am moved past this mentally and emotionally and am ready to try again, I think I will go right into QT upon delivery (with a proper 20 gallon setup). I'll do 250 mg / 10 gallons of cipro for 5-7 days. I will move the clownfish out of the display tank and let the anemone get settled for 7-14 days. When I'm comfortable that it is settled in and passing health checks mentioned by other users on this forum, then I'll reintroduce the clownfish to the display tank.

Please let me know if you guys have any other thoughts / advice on what I did or on my future plans. I'm really trying to learn here. It sucks that this learning experience went the hard way. I have to do better for my pet next time.

Thanks, Jacob

Gill the 3rd · Dec 26, 2023

Sorry to hear, that sucks I lost a haddoni that I had for a couple years in a tank move. It just never took to the new tank and ended up dieing, so I know the feeling. I wasn't aware that a cipro dose can help so I learned that. Good luck on your next one

dieselkeeper · Dec 26, 2023

Sorry the anemone did not survive. Unfortunately this hobby seems to be a live and learn thing.

My first anemone before the two I have now was a cheap striped haddoni from petco. It survived a walk into the powerhead. Finally figured out their need for flow. Live and learn.

jbacker7 · Dec 26, 2023

dieselkeeper said:
Sorry the anemone did not survive. Unfortunately this hobby seems to be a live and learn thing.

My first anemone before the two I have now was a cheap striped haddoni from petco. It survived a walk into the powerhead. Finally figured out their need for flow. Live and learn.

This flow comment brings up another thought / question from me......

When the anemone would not put it's foot down, I could not turn on the MP40. Even on it's lowest setting it would've blown the anemone around the tank. Do you think that failing to provide enough flow is another potential stressor? How can a person provide an anemone with flow if it will not put it's foot down?

dieselkeeper · Dec 26, 2023

Provide no flow until the foot is attached. Anemone that does not attach is an indication of its poor health.

Spare time · Dec 26, 2023

jbacker7 said:
On Sunday, 12/24, afternoon I set up a quarantine tank using a storage tote, heater, and an air pump with two air stones running. No light initially. I matched the salinity and temperature of my stored saltwater and QT to my display tank before moving the anemone. Around 2:00 PM I moved the anemone and administered 250 mg of cipro / 10 gallons of QT water. The anemone was placed on a ceramic dinner plate in QT. It moved itself to extend its foot out sideways and kind of folded itself like a taco. It righted itself and opened up normally, moving around a bit through the day. It's mouth was still wide open.

Around 10:00 PM that night I went to check on it before going to bed. The water was quite cloudy. I used a turkey baster to gently blow some detritus off of it's mouth and found that the interior of the anemone seemed to be deteriorating and coming off in strips. It seemed this was the end. I performed a 100% water change because of the cloudiness and amount of debris in the water. I smelled the anemone when it was out of water and it did not smell.

The next morning, Monday 12/25, the deterioration had continued. I placed a light over the tank on low power. The anemone shrunk up a little and closed its mouth a little. I think it was still alive at that point. I let things go until around 2:00 PM when the water was too cloudy to see clearly and I did a 100% water change and redosed cipro. The anemone smelled pretty bad. At this point I was 99% sure it was gone, but filled the tank back up one last time anyway.

Last night around 6:00 PM, the anemone was clearly gone. It looked like a pile of ground hamburger protruding from it's mouth. I drained the tank one last time before disposing of the anemone in a plastic bag. Like others have mentioned, there was a very putrid smell.

I'm feeling pretty terrible over the whole deal.

I think my last chance to really save the anemone came last Wednesday when I got my cipro. For a lot of reasons I decided to follow the low dose 0.125 mg / L in the display tank protocol. Looking back, I shouldn't have done that. I should have gone into QT at that point and administered at 250 mg / 10 gallons.

Leaving the weakened anemone in with the clowns was also a mistake. After that first big deflate when the clowns kept trying to feed it that shell I could've pulled it even without cipro on hand, but just to get it away from them.

I think @dieselkeeper was ultimately right here. I think that in my inexperience I took deflations for granted and assumed that they were part of an anemones process in adjusting / healing. I think they are more significant than I gave them credit for.

In a few months, when I am moved past this mentally and emotionally and am ready to try again, I think I will go right into QT upon delivery (with a proper 20 gallon setup). I'll do 250 mg / 10 gallons of cipro for 5-7 days. I will move the clownfish out of the display tank and let the anemone get settled for 7-14 days. When I'm comfortable that it is settled in and passing health checks mentioned by other users on this forum, then I'll reintroduce the clownfish to the display tank.

Please let me know if you guys have any other thoughts / advice on what I did or on my future plans. I'm really trying to learn here. It sucks that this learning experience went the hard way. I have to do better for my pet next time.

Thanks, Jacob

Never do antibiotics as a preventative. Antibiotics are actively harmful unless there is an infection that has life threatening potential.

jbacker7 · Dec 28, 2023

Updating for reference.

I've been doing a lot of reading lately about both haddoni carpets and saddleback clownfish.

It was easy for me to set out with a plan for this tank to use saddlebacks as the fish of choice since they are hosted by s. haddoni in nature. I figured that would be a simple, closed case decision. I've also read about people having luck keeping small groups of them which is a plus compared to just a pair.

I am uncovering more people sharing a similar experience to my own. Even those who just kept a pair of a. polymnus with s. haddoni were faced with the constant over loving and worst of all, constant diving into the anemone and causing damage. I have 5 fish in this tank, not just 2.

I believe that the constant internal irritation / damage was the main contributing factor to this anemone's demise. I could've done a better job getting it out of the tank sooner instead of just trying to keep the clowns separated from it in the same tank. Ultimately these small 1.5" - 2" fish found ways around the egg crate and back loving on the anemone.

The future of this setup is a bit up in the air. The saddlebacks may have to be switched out for another species of clownfish in an effort to mitigate "over loving" of the future anemone.

Maybe clarkii are worth considering. They seem to have a reputation for taking good care of almost all anemone species in aquariums as well as being hosted by almost all species in nature.

Spare time · Dec 28, 2023

Did you ever mention the par that the anemone was receiving?

Spare time · Dec 28, 2023

Did you ever find out the phosphate level?

Spare time · Dec 28, 2023

billysprout said:
That's a good sign indeed, it can't sting our hands as easily because the skin is tougher. but our forearms and other bits are fair game if the nem has a strong sting response.

your normal cadence of pellets should be fine as long as you puff off any that fall on the oral disc.

it's about harm reduction; more important to remove any pathogenic bacteria from the water column while the nem is in this vulnerable state. malicious bacteria will do more damage to a weakened nem than a low dose of cipro ever could.

Still, I am unsure if dosing cipro wouldn't cause harm that could worsen the anemone given the numerous rolls that microbiomes play within a species (such as defense against pathogens)

dieselkeeper · Dec 28, 2023

jbacker7 said:
Updating for reference.

I've been doing a lot of reading lately about both haddoni carpets and saddleback clownfish.

It was easy for me to set out with a plan for this tank to use saddlebacks as the fish of choice since they are hosted by s. haddoni in nature. I figured that would be a simple, closed case decision. I've also read about people having luck keeping small groups of them which is a plus compared to just a pair.

I am uncovering more people sharing a similar experience to my own. Even those who just kept a pair of a. polymnus with s. haddoni were faced with the constant over loving and worst of all, constant diving into the anemone and causing damage. I have 5 fish in this tank, not just 2.

I believe that the constant internal irritation / damage was the main contributing factor to this anemone's demise. I could've done a better job getting it out of the tank sooner instead of just trying to keep the clowns separated from it in the same tank. Ultimately these small 1.5" - 2" fish found ways around the egg crate and back loving on the anemone.

The future of this setup is a bit up in the air. The saddlebacks may have to be switched out for another species of clownfish in an effort to mitigate "over loving" of the future anemone.

Maybe clarkii are worth considering. They seem to have a reputation for taking good care of almost all anemone species in aquariums as well as being hosted by almost all species in nature.

Haddoni was my first anemone. I had a pair clarkii clownfish with it. The female dove into the mouth, and peeped out with only her face showing. I never noticed any harm to the anemone being done. Yours was sick already.

jbacker7 · Dec 28, 2023

@Spare time, I had the Kessils mounted 16” apart, 8” each side of center. They were 12” above the water’s surface and I am using the 55 degree narrow beam angle reflector. I don’t have a PAR meter, but BRS has done testing both with and without the narrow beam reflector and designated “optimum” mounting heights for the light. You can reference the attached photos for what I’m looking at if you’re interested. They tested at 18” down with a single light over a 24x24 area and with two lights spaced like mine were over a 24x48 area. My best estimate, using these results as purely a reference and considering I was running my lights at about 40-45%, is that when the anemone was inflated with nice tentacle movement and extension it was getting only about 100 PAR. I would also anecdotally describe the tank then as “not that bright” and I was concerned about not enough like for my Xenia. If I tried to go to 60% or even just 50% on the lights the anemone would shrink up and try to hide from the light. Seems strange knowing that from what I’ve read s. Haddoni wants 200-300 PAR, but I couldn’t deny how it was responding to light in the tank. It did not want it bright at all. Also, even at 40% intensity, the instant light in the morning would cause it to shrink up for the first few hours. I will be ramping light in the morning on the next go round.

Also, @Spare time, I never did test phosphates. I simply don’t have a test kit. With 5 small fish in 90 gallons of water, I have a hard time staying between 5-10 ppm on my nitrates for my Xenia. When I tested nitrates the day I made this original post and they were at 5, I didn’t figure phosphates were a likely issue. Not saying that I’m not wrong and I will be getting a Hanna phosphate checker before the next anemone.