New DIY Two Part Recipes with Higher pH Boost

[Ento-Reefer]

I am in the process of purchasing the chemicals to try out this recipe. My dosing lines all empty into the return section of my sump. The flow isn't very strong, but I am not sure how strong it really needs to be if I am splitting the dose up to 24 times throughout the day. I could add a small power head to that section if need be. For those who are using this recipe, do you think that will be necessary? My average Ph is 7.9 so I am hoping this will help get it up a little more into the 8-8.1 range.

How thick do the storage containers need to be? I don't want this leaking out. Is it only hot when you first mix it? Thanks.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I am in the process of purchasing the chemicals to try out this recipe. My dosing lines all empty into the return section of my sump. The flow isn't very strong, but I am not sure how strong it really needs to be if I am splitting the dose up to 24 times throughout the day. I could add a small power head to that section if need be. For those who are using this recipe, do you think that will be necessary? My average Ph is 7.9 so I am hoping this will help get it up a little more into the 8-8.1 range.

How thick do the storage containers need to be? I don't want this leaking out. Is it only hot when you first mix it? Thanks.

You can dilute the alk part as much as you want to allow slower and/or less concentrated delivery into the return water.

 

[Ento-Reefer]

You can dilute the alk part as much as you want to allow slower and/or less concentrated delivery into the return water.

Great. So if I am adding 4.5ml every hour the amount of flow in my return chamber should be sufficient without adding additional flow?

I guess the only way to know for sure is to give it a try...

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Great. So if I am adding 4.5ml every hour the amount of flow in my return chamber should be sufficient without adding additional flow?

I guess the only way to know for sure is to give it a try...

I can't really say what is or is not sufficient, but I'm just saying that if it is borderline, you can slow delivery down greatly by diluting the recipe and using the same pump.

 

[Rodrigo Svero]

Hello @Randy Holmes-Farley
I am using your old recipe per many years , but your ratio for Ca and Mg was about 100:6 and in this new recipe second my calculations the Ca and Mg ratios are about 100:18 ,
I am right ?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hello @Randy Holmes-Farley
I am using your old recipe per many years , but your ratio for Ca and Mg was about 100:6 and in this new recipe second my calculations the Ca and Mg ratios are about 100:18 ,
I am right ?

This is a complicated question, but the total magnesium delivery (after adjusting for salinitiy changes) per amount of alk and calcium is intended to be the same.
There are two high pH versions now.

One is just a swap of sodium hydroxide in for sodium carbonate out, in my 2/3 part recipe. There's no change to magnesium or calcium in that one.

The second one (described in the first post of this thread) is a modification of Jim Welsh'smodification of my recipe. he converted my original recipe into a true two part, so the magnesium is actually in the calcium part. To do that requires a bit more magnesium to offset the bigger salinity rise that is caused by that recipe. The intent is the same amount of magnesium per unit of calcium added AFTER correcting for salinity changes in each case. I then swapped our the carbonate in his version and swapped in hydroxide.

here's Jim's discussion of his recipe:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/s...hould-i-expect-to-change.215171/#post-2466696

from it:

"Notice that all of the required magnesium is being added in the form of magnesium chloride, instead of a mixture of magnesium chloride and magnesium sulfate. That implies that we are adding more chloride than is necessary, since Randy's Part 3A strikes a proper balance between the relative amounts of magnesium, chloride, and sulfate needed. Notice also that all of the sulfate is being added in the form of sodium sulfate, meaning that we're also adding more sodium than is necessary. That extra sodium and the extra chloride means that we have added still more sodium chloride, and have thrown our mixtures out of balance once again, so now we have roughly 52 more grams of sodium chloride that needs balancing. Now we must calculate how much more magnesium chloride and sodium sulfate is needed to balance out that 52 more grams of sodium chloride, and then that will leave us once again with a bit more (about 6.25 g) leftover sodium chloride, and so on. After a few iterations of these calculations, though, the amounts we are talking about are so small that they really don't matter any more."

 

[Dennis Cartier]

For any Canadians who are using this new 2 part, have you located an affordable source for the Food Grade Sodium Sulfate and Sodium Hydroxide? If so please post it. All the US based suppliers on Amazon have crazy high shipping to Canada which makes it more expensive than the commercial versions. There must be local source for these components at a reasonable cost.

Dennis

 

[WWIII]

For any Canadians who are using this new 2 part, have you located an affordable source for the Food Grade Sodium Sulfate and Sodium Hydroxide? If so please post it. All the US based suppliers on Amazon have crazy high shipping to Canada which makes it more expensive than the commercial versions. There must be local source for these components at a reasonable cost.

Dennis

You might look at soap making suppliers and/or biodiesel suppliers.

 

[Dennis Cartier]

I ended up biting the bullet and just ordering through Amazon. The bill was $280 for 20 lbs of Sodium Hydroxide and 5 lbs of Sodium Sulfate. That should be enough for about 33 gallons of alk supplement. The Sodium Hydroxide has a shelf life of about 3 years (according to what I read online) , so I will most likely not use it all before it needs to be replaced. Smaller quantities were at a much higher cost per pound though. It end up being about 50% higher than what the going rate is in the US (after currency conversion).

All the soap suppliers that I checked did not have food grade Sodium Hydroxide, and they all had weight restrictions on shipping it due to its classification. Anything over 3 Kg (6.6 lbs) was local pickup only, but I can have 20 lbs shipped across the continent ?!

Dennis

 

[Ento-Reefer]

I thought my containers were heavy duty enough to store the alk portion of this recipe, but I was wrong. I did wait until the mixture had cooled off some, but it still ended up cracking this container. Can some one recommend a heavy duty 2 gallon vessel that they have found will not crack? I lost about a half gallon of this all over my washing machine because I had it stored on the shelf above. Thanks.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

What material is that? Polycarbonate cannot withstand the pH, at least not long term.

I would think a polypropylene or polyethylene pail would be good for mixing, but I've only used glass.

 

[Ento-Reefer]

What material is that? Polycarbonate cannot withstand the pH, at least not long term.

I would think a polypropylene or polyethylene pail would be good for mixing, but I've only used glass.

Yep, I found that out the hard way. I mixed it up in a 5 gallon home depot bucket. I am looking for a suitable container to store it in for the 2 months or so that I am using it between mixing more. My dosing container is acrylic and only hold 1500ml at a time. I hope that dosen't end up cracking also??

Would a polypropylene container work for long term storage? Thank you!!

 

[Ento-Reefer]

do you think this would work?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BUQ86N...&pd_rd_r=547d66c8-886c-11e8-ad94-e78de8a8559a

Maybe I should just try to find 1 gallon glass containers if that will work. It would probably be less expensive.

 

[Dennis Cartier]

This, all the container talk, brings up something I have been meaning to ask. Does the Sodium Hydroxide version weaken if exposed to CO2 in air? I was planning on putting a second bulk head into my dosing containers with a check valve on it, so that it would allow air in when there was negative pressure inside the dosing container but would close once the internal pressure was equalized to atmosphere. So if the alk part is not weakened by exposure to the CO2 in air, I may not need to go to such lengths.

Dennis

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Polypropylene is perfect long term, if the liquid temp is not elevated substantially above room temp. It is totally inert.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

This, all the container talk, brings up something I have been meaning to ask. Does the Sodium Hydroxide version weaken if exposed to CO2 in air? I was planning on putting a second bulk head into my dosing containers with a check valve on it, so that it would allow air in when there was negative pressure inside the dosing container but would close once the internal pressure was equalized to atmosphere. So if the alk part is not weakened by exposure to the CO2 in air, I may not need to go to such lengths.

Dennis

Yes, it will suck CO2 from the air, converting into carbonate. The alk is not weakened, just lowered in pH. The small amount going in to replace liquid pumps out is not significant at all, but leaving it wide open to the air will lower the pH.

 

[Ento-Reefer]

Polypropylene is perfect long term, if the liquid temp is not elevated substantially above room temp. It is totally inert.

Would glass be just as good long term? Thanks for the help Randy.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Would glass be just as good long term? Thanks for the help Randy.

Glass may release some silica at high pH, but it won't weaken. I've etched glass flasks with very high pH solutions.

That may not be an issue if diatoms are not an issue. I dosed silicate to my tank.

 

[Dennis Cartier]

Yes, it will suck CO2 from the air, converting into carbonate. The alk is not weakened, just lowered in pH. The small amount going in to replace liquid pumps out is not significant at all, but leaving it wide open to the air will lower the pH.

Ah, I was thinking along the lines of Kalk, but since this version has no calcium present, the CO2 does not use up alkalinity through precipitation. I will still try to keep the CO2 ingress to a minimum as I hope to replace Kalk with this version and only dose a single type of supplements (rather than Kalk and 2 part).

Dennis

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Ah, I was thinking along the lines of Kalk, but since this version has no calcium present, the CO2 does not use up alkalinity through precipitation. I will still try to keep the CO2 ingress to a minimum as I hope to replace Kalk with this version and only dose a single type of supplements (rather than Kalk and 2 part).

Dennis

Sounds good.

Happy Reefing.