New crocea clam tear or pinched mantle syndrome?

[biotex]

Thanks for the suggestions. This morning I found the clam on the sand bed and some loose byssal threads where the clam used to be. When I moved it to a frag disk, it would not open. I went ahead and freshwater dipped the clam for 30min, added a little ledge for the clam, and increased flow around the ledge.

This afternoon, the clam is finally open with the most mantle extension I've seen since I got it. It's reacting to light again, and hopefully will have a speedy recovery. I'll update in a few days with how it's doing.

 

[minus9]

Thanks for the suggestions. This morning I found the clam on the sand bed and some loose byssal threads where the clam used to be. When I moved it to a frag disk, it would not open. I went ahead and freshwater dipped the clam for 30min, added a little ledge for the clam, and increased flow around the ledge.

This afternoon, the clam is finally open with the most mantle extension I've seen since I got it. It's reacting to light again, and hopefully will have a speedy recovery. I'll update in a few days with how it's doing.

I'm glad that the clam is doing better, but I wouldn't call that fully open/extended. Flow is important and I think some people don't realize how much flow these clams get on the reef. Hopefully it'll keep improving over time. Keep us posted.

 

[minus9]

As a reference, here are my croceas and how the mantle should look when fully extended.

 

[biotex]

As a reference, here are my croceas and how the mantle should look when fully extended.

Beautiful, thanks for sharing!

 

[biotex]

Update:

Clam's doing really well. Wide mantle extension, the nipped tissue has healed, and the clam looks happy. I'm no longer concerned about the survivability of this crocea.

That being said, I'm still upset with Biota. I had to take drastic measures to recover this clam's health. I've never received a damaged frag or injured fish and had a vendor do nothing about it. Why should the status quo for an injured clam be different? I'm going to give them a call to see if they can make things right because I got nowhere via email.

 

[goosemans]

i think biotas quality control has gone down. They’re posting sps frags riddled with dinos.

 

[dansyr]

Update:

Clam's doing really well. Wide mantle extension, the nipped tissue has healed, and the clam looks happy. I'm no longer concerned about the survivability of this crocea.

That being said, I'm still upset with Biota. I had to take drastic measures to recover this clam's health. I've never received a damaged frag or injured fish and had a vendor do nothing about it. Why should the status quo for an injured clam be different? I'm going to give them a call to see if they can make things right because I got nowhere via email.

Glad it is looking better! It definitely looks like it's pulled through shipping stress, looks like it might setle in a little more but that's just time.

Frankly though I don't think you "had to take drastic measures" - just because you did didn't mean it was necessary. This is not a blame or challenging statement, just i want to make sure people reading threads like this in the future don't get the wrong idea and go trying "drastic measures" when they just need good light, water, and safety to recover if they ever had a chance of recovery (PMD, pyramids, and uncurable diseases aside).

It sucks they sent you a clam that was nipped, thats valid complaint for sure. But to me, I don't see anything other than a clam that spent a little too long in subpar lighting. Which is very recoverable as long as it's not past a critical point. For sure, I wish every point in the supply chain realized how much light these guys need. But that's a big ask, not unreasonable for a vendor like Biota, but still a big ask.

 

[minus9]

Looking much better! You should start to see new growth on the shell within a week or so.

 

[Uncle99]

Update:

Clam's doing really well. Wide mantle extension, the nipped tissue has healed, and the clam looks happy. I'm no longer concerned about the survivability of this crocea.

That being said, I'm still upset with Biota. I had to take drastic measures to recover this clam's health. I've never received a damaged frag or injured fish and had a vendor do nothing about it. Why should the status quo for an injured clam be different? I'm going to give them a call to see if they can make things right because I got nowhere via email.

I am so happy the clam looks better, way better.
Nice work by you.

The mantle looked nipped and damaged not shipped and damaged, which the supplier would have or should have known before bagging.

 

[minus9]

I am so happy the clam looks better, way better.
Nice work by you.

The mantle looked nipped and damaged not shipped and damaged, which the supplier would have or should have known before bagging.

I find a high percentage of vendors don't actually know how to care for clams, so my expectations are pretty low with their ability to know what to look for. There are a few out there I trust, but the rest are pretty much a crap-shoot. It doesn't take much to train your staff what to do and it only costs you about $40 on a book that can arm you with a wealth of knowledge and basic info. To me, it comes down to being cheap and lazy. I know it sounds harsh, but that's the reality.

 

[biotex]

Glad it is looking better! It definitely looks like it's pulled through shipping stress, looks like it might setle in a little more but that's just time.

Frankly though I don't think you "had to take drastic measures" - just because you did didn't mean it was necessary. This is not a blame or challenging statement, just i want to make sure people reading threads like this in the future don't get the wrong idea and go trying "drastic measures" when they just need good light, water, and safety to recover if they ever had a chance of recovery (PMD, pyramids, and uncurable diseases aside).

It sucks they sent you a clam that was nipped, thats valid complaint for sure. But to me, I don't see anything other than a clam that spent a little too long in subpar lighting. Which is very recoverable as long as it's not past a critical point. For sure, I wish every point in the supply chain realized how much light these guys need. But that's a big ask, not unreasonable for a vendor like Biota, but still a big ask.

The clam was in declining health until I intervened with a freshwater dip. It's ability to recover shows that my tank is capable of allowing the clam to thrive. One thing I didn't mention is that I resumed my normal lighting schedule and intensity a day after dipping the clam. I agree that I would not recommend a freshwater dip as a first step for people with an unhealthy clam, but in my specific case I strongly believe this was the turning point that allowed the clam to recover.

 

[biotex]

I am so happy the clam looks better, way better.
Nice work by you.

The mantle looked nipped and damaged not shipped and damaged, which the supplier would have or should have known before bagging.

Thanks, initial stress is already paying off, this thing's a beaut! I didn't see any chunks of mantle floating around in the bag I got it in either. Had I known about the damage, I would have taken pics and documented.

 

[biotex]

I find a high percentage of vendors don't actually know how to care for clams, so my expectations are pretty low with their ability to know what to look for. There are a few out there I trust, but the rest are pretty much a crap-shoot. It doesn't take much to train your staff what to do and it only costs you about $40 on a book that can arm you with a wealth of knowledge and basic info. To me, it comes down to being cheap and lazy. I know it sounds harsh, but that's the reality.

Reef keeping has been the most hit or miss hobby I've encountered. I don't know if it has always been like this, but I feel like it's a big contributor for people leaving the hobby. A discussion for a different thread, maybe.

That being said there are several low-key vendors out there that set the bar for quality, which is always a welcome surprise.

 

[Biota_Marine]

We're very glad to hear the clam ended up doing well and happy we could help with our correspondence. It's not uncommon for many clams species to have nips because they are a prey item for so many fish and inverts or kept is close proximity to each other. Customers generally do not have any qualms with the health of our clams as we've solidified ourselves as some of best clam suppliers in the world. Our marine biologists have strict husbandry protocols so all the animals in our care are given the best chance of success. They are kept under full spectrum adequate lighting and receive daily feedings to keep their coloration and health.

 

[dansyr]

The clam was in declining health until I intervened with a freshwater dip. It's ability to recover shows that my tank is capable of allowing the clam to thrive. One thing I didn't mention is that I resumed my normal lighting schedule and intensity a day after dipping the clam. I agree that I would not recommend a freshwater dip as a first step for people with an unhealthy clam, but in my specific case I strongly believe this was the turning point that allowed the clam to recover.

Again, declining in health is a strong statement to make, and it getting better after a FWD (when lights and flow were adjusted positively just after that too) doesn't scream causation to me. My point is that your system is well suited for clams, just takes a bit for the clam to adjust from shipping and whatever lighting was like in its intermediate locations. So I think getting your normal lighting schedule, maybe the increased flow, is gradually bringing it back.

I'm saying it would be insanely lucky to encounter a slow-moving disease/parasite that has symptoms indistinguishable from acclimation/supply chain that can be cured with a simple freshwater dip.

Don't get me wrong there are TONS of clam diseases out there (not a clam guru but I'm decently up on the microbiology side) and lots of clams in captivity die from unknown diseases. Just nothing about this clam screams disease/infection to me, and I hope others who find this thread when searching for help about their new clam may recognize this as shipping/acclimation stress that goes away in a good system like biotex's and is not a disease needing treatment.

Edit: I'm just glad your clam is looking happy now, whatever the steps were that brought it here

 

[biotex]

@Biota_Marine

"happy we could help with our correspondence."

You really didn't.

"It's not uncommon for many clams species to have nips because they are a prey item for so many fish and inverts or kept is close proximity to each other."

This should be clearly stated on your sale page so people who buy from you know what to expect.

"Customers generally do not have any qualms with the health of our clams as we've solidified ourselves as some of best clam suppliers in the world."

Congratulations, but that was obviously not the case in this situation, which is the topic of this entire thread. Even a simple apology would have been appreciated, but not in any correspondence was that offered. You seem to be going to great lengths to avert any responsibility for how I received this clam, which is a big red flag for me. I won't be buying from Biota in the future.

@dansyr : I agree with your overall message, but to me lighting and flow were marginally adjusted and only after the clam detached from the rockwork. I wonder if freshwater dipping clams works like iodine dipping corals, where it aids the clam by reducing the overall microbial load on the surface of the animal. This would be an interesting conversation for another thread. IMO except for mantle recession, nothing in PMD screams disease to me either, which is why I asked for help on this thread. Anyways, I think you have valid points and I do appreciate your help and insight. Thanks for the well wishes!

I think that just about wraps up this thread for me. Thanks again to everyone who helped me navigate this situation! I may make a build thread in the near future with updates on how the crocea's doing. I'm pretty excited for how my nano will turn out!