Need Help with Trident Alkalinity

[AKL1950]

Question for everyone. Trident says not to put the unit below the level of the sample line. It doesn’t say anything about how high above the sample line it can be. For those of us getting low readings, how high above the sample line intake is your trident? Mine is about 2’ above it. I’m just wondering if a micro leak in the sample line is enough to cause a mini reverse siphon which might make the first, or only test (which is Alk) show error low because the amount of water used is very slightly lower than it should be. Mine comes up 20% lower than my Salifert test, so I cross checked with a Salifert test. I used 20% less water with the normal amount of regent and the results were spot on exactly like the trident results.

 

[am3gross]

Did you cut the sample line?

Mine is less then 6 inches above the level but it does have a 3 foot ish journey to get to the trident. I did not cut the line, I just let it dangle in there.

 

[Stpatrick]

Tagging along. I am on my second trident. Same issues... I am thinking about tossing it.

 

[AKL1950]

Did you cut the sample line?

Mine is less then 6 inches above the level but it does have a 3 foot ish journey to get to the trident. I did not cut the line, I just let it dangle in there.

no, sample line was never cut. I’ve also checked the routing through the control panel boxes and found no kinks. Where that line is in a zip tie bundle, it’s loosely bound so no compression.

 

[Tcook]

no, sample line was never cut. I’ve also checked the routing through the control panel boxes and found no kinks. Where that line is in a zip tie bundle, it’s loosely bound so no compression.

I think there is a command for priming the Trident. Have you tried priming then immediately running a manual alk test? Or running 2 back to back alk tests? My trident is also 20-24" above the sump.

 

[AKL1950]

I think there is a command for priming the Trident. Have you tried priming then immediately running a manual alk test? Or running 2 back to back alk tests? My trident is also 20-24" above the sump.

Yes, I’ve done that three times. Test all come back the same. I will say this. It is extremely consistent. Every test I’ve done over the past week with trident have all come back between 6.34 and 6.40. Great consistency, but it’s just reading what I think is 1.6 low. Salifert and Hanna over that same period are both reading between 7.9 and 8.2.

 

[areefer01]

Yes, I’ve done that three times. Test all come back the same. I will say this. It is extremely consistent. Every test I’ve done over the past week with trident have all come back between 6.34 and 6.40. Great consistency, but it’s just reading what I think is 1.6 low. Salifert and Hanna over that same period are both reading between 7.9 and 8.2.

I'll ask again since I'm not seeing a reply. Have you run a manual combined test with the sample line in a reference standard be it Neptunes or Fauna Marin? If not that is what I would recommend. If you don't have one take one from another un-opened box or order.

Chasing results across test kits is going to drive you crazy. You are noting the results are consistent but you feel they are lower. So to rule out your water you now need to test against a known reference.

 

[am3gross]

Neptune bottle readings
ALK.......8.45
CAL.......440
MAG.....1355

Salifert Test results for same Neptune bottle
ALK.....8.5
CAL.....420
MAG...1215

Trident results for the same bottle.
ALK.....8.9
CAL.....483
MAG...1252

I understand these are my results and yours will vary, However I wanted you and everyone else to see that the numbers are not what they seem. I think as long as the numbers are consistent, and the way you are testing is consistent then that is really what matters. If yours is consistently pulling less water for tests, then I would adjust the numbers in my head to make them the standard for YOUR trident. I love the apex and everything that goes along with it, but it is a tool in the tool box that sometimes does not yield the results you want. Which is why every tool box has a hammer!!

 

[IKD]

Yes, I’ve done that three times. Test all come back the same. I will say this. It is extremely consistent. Every test I’ve done over the past week with trident have all come back between 6.34 and 6.40. Great consistency, but it’s just reading what I think is 1.6 low. Salifert and Hanna over that same period are both reading between 7.9 and 8.2.

Do you see the same issue with different Solution A (alk) bottles? I had off readings for a time before it corrected and it coincided with changing out my reference solution.

You can also open it up and make sure your lines are fully connected to the pump wheel. I saw dried up solution at the bottom of the tray and had to re-secure the reference solution line.

 

[AKL1950]

I'll ask again since I'm not seeing a reply. Have you run a manual combined test with the sample line in a reference standard be it Neptunes or Fauna Marin? If not that is what I would recommend. If you don't have one take one from another un-opened box or order.

Chasing results across test kits is going to drive you crazy. You are noting the results are consistent but you feel they are lower. So to rule out your water you now need to test against a known reference.

Scouring the internet and can’t find anyone who has the Fuana Marine Multi Reference Solution On hand. I’ll keep looking and get it.

 

[areefer01]

Scouring the internet and can’t find anyone who has the Fuana Marine Multi Reference Solution On hand. I’ll keep looking and get it.

Oh - ok. It is a good product to keep on hand. Good luck.

 

[Gophish1982]

On my call yesterday, I was told to calibrate my trident again with their solution since I had never used it (I initially calibrated with fauna Marin) and then test the extra Trident calibration solution. Alk read higher on Hanna and Salifert by .85, so now my trident reads just .85 lower each time. What I don’t understand is why, after I calibrated for the first time with fauna Marin that has a Alk of 6.6 (confirmed their solution with Hanna), trident then gave Alk readings 1.5 lower then Hanna. A week later I decided to calibrate with my tank water and Hanna results and it went right back to reading 1.5 lower.
I too was thinking that it’s either not getting enough water for the Alk test, or it’s pumping in more reagent then it should and the color change happens faster. I’m not mechanical enough to figure it out. I’m going to wait until my new reagents come in and I replace them in a few days then try to calibrate to my tank water again and see what happens.

 

[IKD]

On my call yesterday, I was told to calibrate my trident again with their solution since I had never used it (I initially calibrated with fauna Marin) and then test the extra Trident calibration solution. Alk read higher on Hanna and Salifert by .85, so now my trident reads just .85 lower each time. What I don’t understand is why, after I calibrated for the first time with fauna Marin that has a Alk of 6.6 (confirmed their solution with Hanna), trident then gave Alk readings 1.5 lower then Hanna. A week later I decided to calibrate with my tank water and Hanna results and it went right back to reading 1.5 lower.
I too was thinking that it’s either not getting enough water for the Alk test, or it’s pumping in more reagent then it should and the color change happens faster. I’m not mechanical enough to figure it out. I’m going to wait until my new reagents come in and I replace them in a few days then try to calibrate to my tank water again and see what happens.

If you want to look inside, this video was helpful for me to see how to do it. It really isn’t that hard once you see it done. I realized that pulling my tray out too far to switch solutions can pull on the tubing that connects to the motor and cause leaking.

 

[areefer01]

On my call yesterday, I was told to calibrate my trident again with their solution since I had never used it (I initially calibrated with fauna Marin) and then test the extra Trident calibration solution. Alk read higher on Hanna and Salifert by .85, so now my trident reads just .85 lower each time. What I don’t understand is why, after I calibrated for the first time with fauna Marin that has a Alk of 6.6 (confirmed their solution with Hanna), trident then gave Alk readings 1.5 lower then Hanna. A week later I decided to calibrate with my tank water and Hanna results and it went right back to reading 1.5 lower.
I too was thinking that it’s either not getting enough water for the Alk test, or it’s pumping in more reagent then it should and the color change happens faster. I’m not mechanical enough to figure it out. I’m going to wait until my new reagents come in and I replace them in a few days then try to calibrate to my tank water again and see what happens.

So you calibrated then let it run its scheduled test, or you ran a manual combined test, and the reading for ALK is 1.5 dkH?

Did you by any chance run a test moving the sample line to the left over calibration fluid that Neptune provides or Fauna Marin? And if so, what are those results?

 

[AKL1950]

If you want to look inside, this video was helpful for me to see how to do it. It really isn’t that hard once you see it done. I realized that pulling my tray out too far to switch solutions can pull on the tubing that connects to the motor and cause leaking.

Thanks for the video. That will be my next step to see if I pulled a line loose. I’ve been trying to raise my alkalinity a bit and I’m slowly getting there. All three test are rising slowly, but the trident is still way low. However, it is in lock step with the other two test. They go up 0.2 and trident goes up 0.2. It’s just 1.6 below the numbers Salifert and Hanna are showing. Guess I can consider it reliable, I just have to add 1.6 to what it shows. Today Salifert 8.0, Hanna 8.3 and trident 6.43 (add 1.6 and get 8.03).

 

[Gophish1982]

So you calibrated then let it run its scheduled test, or you ran a manual combined test, and the reading for ALK is 1.5 dkH?

Did you by any chance run a test moving the sample line to the left over calibration fluid that Neptune provides or Fauna Marin? And if so, what are those results?

1.5dkh lower then my third party tests. It happened after I did my first calibration with fauna Marin. The solution was 6.6 Alk. I did not run a test of that solution right after, but that’s when it started reading my tank 1.5 low. When it continued to read 1.5 low for a week, I decided to calibrate with my tank water. I just left the sample line where it had been, ran the calibration, and it ended about 10 minutes before my regularly scheduled 12a test. It went right back to reading Alk 1.5 low. So no, I didn’t calibrate with fauna Marin or Hanna solution then run a test with the extra solution, but isn’t it basically the same thing when I calibrated with my tank water then ran a test? I gave it confirmed parameters, calibrated, gave it the same sample (my tank water) and it went right back to reading 1.5 lower then what I just told it the sample was. I just got new reagent today. I have a couple days before I have to switch. I don’t understand why it wouldn’t hold my tank values, but when I calibrated with tridents solution after my phone call on monday (which I tested and Hanna/Salifert both read. 85 higher) the trident now reads .85 lower each time. When I spoke with Carlos, he mentioned that “trident is smart enough to know if the value you give it is too high, and if it detects this during calibration, it goes back to its last successful calibration.” His example was if I accidentally entered 80.5 for Alk instead of 8.05. I think he was trying to convince me that when I calibrated with my own water I entered an erroneous Alk number. But the calibration wizard won’t even let you put in a number that is out of range. I don’t know. If it won’t work after I switch reagents, I’m going to ask for an exchange now that I see SEVERAL other people who just purchased it are having the same problem.

 

[areefer01]

1.5dkh lower then my third party tests. It happened after I did my first calibration with fauna Marin. The solution was 6.6 Alk. I did not run a test of that solution right after, but that’s when it started reading my tank 1.5 low. When it continued to read 1.5 low for a week, I decided to calibrate with my tank water. I just left the sample line where it had been, ran the calibration, and it ended about 10 minutes before my regularly scheduled 12a test. It went right back to reading Alk 1.5 low. So no, I didn’t calibrate with fauna Marin or Hanna solution then run a test with the extra solution, but isn’t it basically the same thing when I calibrated with my tank water then ran a test? I gave it confirmed parameters, calibrated, gave it the same sample (my tank water) and it went right back to reading 1.5 lower then what I just told it the sample was. I just got new reagent today. I have a couple days before I have to switch. I don’t understand why it wouldn’t hold my tank values, but when I calibrated with tridents solution after my phone call on monday (which I tested and Hanna/Salifert both read. 85 higher) the trident now reads .85 lower each time. When I spoke with Carlos, he mentioned that “trident is smart enough to know if the value you give it is too high, and if it detects this during calibration, it goes back to its last successful calibration.” His example was if I accidentally entered 80.5 for Alk instead of 8.05. I think he was trying to convince me that when I calibrated with my own water I entered an erroneous Alk number. But the calibration wizard won’t even let you put in a number that is out of range. I don’t know. If it won’t work after I switch reagents, I’m going to ask for an exchange now that I see SEVERAL other people who just purchased it are having the same problem.

All I am suggesting is that you remove the extra noise and focus on what the Trident is giving you for results. Going back and forth between the Trident and third party test kits will drive you crazy. The test methodologies are different as is their margin of error. Also know reagents have a lot number of them. I'm not sure swapping them out will make a difference if they are the same but will defer to support as they know better.

Following the Neptune calibration task, proper placement, and what not:

• Calibrate using new reference solution
• Cap and save solution
• Move sample line to display
• Run manual combined test
• Note as display results
• Move sample line to saved solution
• Run prime sample line (not sure if this is needed but can't hurt)
• Run manual combined test
• Note as calibration solution results
• Compare results

This will basically give you two key data points. First is the Trident test results from your display. The second is the result from the calibration solution. This will also give you an indication if the reference/calibration solution is good. I recall one time when someone had a bad bottle (if the numbers are way off). Now if you want to run manual tests with other kits you can. Ideally you will want to repeat the steps above but replace Trident with kit (Hanna) for example.

 

[AKL1950]

All I am suggesting is that you remove the extra noise and focus on what the Trident is giving you for results. Going back and forth between the Trident and third party test kits will drive you crazy. The test methodologies are different as is their margin of error. Also know reagents have a lot number of them. I'm not sure swapping them out will make a difference if they are the same but will defer to support as they know better.

Following the Neptune calibration task, proper placement, and what not:

• Calibrate using new reference solution
• Cap and save solution
• Move sample line to display
• Run manual combined test
• Note as display results
• Move sample line to saved solution
• Run prime sample line (not sure if this is needed but can't hurt)
• Run manual combined test
• Note as calibration solution results
• Compare results

This will basically give you two key data points. First is the Trident test results from your display. The second is the result from the calibration solution. This will also give you an indication if the reference/calibration solution is good. I recall one time when someone had a bad bottle (if the numbers are way off). Now if you want to run manual tests with other kits you can. Ideally you will want to repeat the steps above but replace Trident with kit (Hanna) for example.

On your list, I think you also want to prime the sample water line each time you move it Before you fun tests.

 

[areefer01]

On your list, I think you also want to prime the sample water line each time you move it Before you fun tests.

Yeah - that could also be. Thanks.

However, I can't go back and edit my post. Hopefully they get the idea in that we are trying to remove all the other stuff and just focus on the trident and its results. Nothing else.

Hope your day is going well.

 

[Gatorpa]

I have a

1.5dkh lower then my third party tests. It happened after I did my first calibration with fauna Marin. The solution was 6.6 Alk. I did not run a test of that solution right after, but that’s when it started reading my tank 1.5 low. When it continued to read 1.5 low for a week, I decided to calibrate with my tank water. I just left the sample line where it had been, ran the calibration, and it ended about 10 minutes before my regularly scheduled 12a test. It went right back to reading Alk 1.5 low. So no, I didn’t calibrate with fauna Marin or Hanna solution then run a test with the extra solution, but isn’t it basically the same thing when I calibrated with my tank water then ran a test? I gave it confirmed parameters, calibrated, gave it the same sample (my tank water) and it went right back to reading 1.5 lower then what I just told it the sample was. I just got new reagent today. I have a couple days before I have to switch. I don’t understand why it wouldn’t hold my tank values, but when I calibrated with tridents solution after my phone call on monday (which I tested and Hanna/Salifert both read. 85 higher) the trident now reads .85 lower each time. When I spoke with Carlos, he mentioned that “trident is smart enough to know if the value you give it is too high, and if it detects this during calibration, it goes back to its last successful calibration.” His example was if I accidentally entered 80.5 for Alk instead of 8.05. I think he was trying to convince me that when I calibrated with my own water I entered an erroneous Alk number. But the calibration wizard won’t even let you put in a number that is out of range. I don’t know. If it won’t work after I switch reagents, I’m going to ask for an exchange now that I see SEVERAL other people who just purchased it are having the same problem.

similar issue.
Trident running 1.0 dkh lower than salient consistent for months.
so I calibrated off those values with tank water. Cal shows the bump up but then on the next and subsequent tests it’s now showing a dkh of 6.86 when it was at 8 and salient is at 9.0.
Even recalibrated again and same results.

If you are telling the unit the value of the sample is 9.0 (tank water) then when it tests it should read 9.0 (or very close). Not read even lower than before.

Never changed a solution or moved the unit in the process.