Need help on Lighting Par

[mrpontiac80]

Disabled = lower numbers. It has to apply correction for taking measurements underwater

Sorry to make you redo all the measurements ! But you need accurate numbers so you know where to place corals and what to have the light set to

This all just seemed a little off to me.

I’m here all night

I have the apogee 510 and take my readings with pumps on. The numbers bounce around, but I figure that’s the way the corals will be living. Any reason other than steady numbers you turn pumps off?

 

[bill63304]

I would rather do it allover and get it right. I would have never known if you hadn't called it out, Thank a million. I will repost in this thread once I redo everything.

 

[VintageReefer]

I have the apogee 510 and take my readings with pumps on. The numbers bounce around, but I figure that’s the way the corals will be living. Any reason other than steady numbers you turn pumps off?

it’s just a best practice thing
Makes taking the test faster
Gives you the highest value that spot will reach
Removes refraction from ripples from the process
Corals absorb differently than par optics lenses which generally absorb perpendicular and coral can absorb form all angles

I made all those up on the spot. Sounds somewhat believable

Honestly I think the main issue with lightning is too much. By having the water pumps off you will get the highest possible numbers. Then you will know if spots are capable of entering a danger zone for certain corals. Some peoples pumps are synched so one comes on as another goes off. This can affect the measurements also. I was taught when taking part readings to have the waves all off. I didn’t really look into why but it seemed to make sense because it makes all the testing consistent and under the same conditions

 

[Dburr1014]

Why not? I don’t understand the reasoning. If par is fine why can’t coral go up high ?

Just for the reason that they need room to grow up. There is no up in that scape.

 

[Ironic_Water]

Wouldn't it be better to have pumps running during PAR readings? The majority of the tank's time the pumps will be on, thus you should keep them on when reading the light.

Not to mention the water movement reflects light, which can cause spikes and dips in PAR.

Readings with pumps off will be skewed and unnaturally stable thanks to no water movement.

 

[VintageReefer]

Just for the reason that they need room to grow up. There is no up in that scape.

Well not all coral grows up lol

 

[Dburr1014]

Well not all coral grows up lol

Very true.
OP could have plating coral up top and have them shade everything. No, no good.
Maybe encrusting coral. Once they run out of room they start to plate. No, no good.
LPS up top? Eh, no room. Mmmm, what to put up there.... Green star polyps maybe? That would work.

 

[Dburr1014]

I've always heard to turn them off.

But, I know a guy who does par mapping for a living(along with other stuff) he does the mapping with the pumps on. More "real world" mapping.

 

[bill63304]

Actually the picture that I posted was cropped a bit to make it easier to edit in the par numbers. My tank is 24 high. I made my rock scape 14 high at the highest point, so I should be fine.

 

[VintageReefer]

Very true.
OP could have plating coral up top and have them shade everything. No, no good.
Maybe encrusting coral. Once they run out of room they start to plate. No, no good.
LPS up top? Eh, no room. Mmmm, what to put up there.... Green star polyps maybe? That would work.

Wow. 7500+ posts and you haven’t heard of the concept of fragging. Plating corals being one of the easiest. Based on your logic they should not keep any coral that encrusts because it will eventually plate. Simply not true. Gonipora is an encrusting coral - doesn’t plate for example. And could do well in that slot depending on flow and par

And I guess you never heard of zoanthids. These do great in 100-300 par by the way and they don’t grow up or plate

These are in 275+ par

These are in 150 par

Both doing great and grown from plugs. Great thing about them is they accept a wide range of par, and all the rock peaks are perfectly in line.

Then there’s nps corals like fat head dendro. Which does not care about light at all and also doesn’t plate or grow upwards, it forms new heads, and grows outwards. Slowly by the way. Here’s mine. Approx 175 par

We also have lepto and <former> favia. These are encrusters but they will follow the shape of the object they are on, even vertical. The will only plate if they hit a perpindicular surface. And these are slow growers also

My leptos grow about 1/4” every 3 months. It would be pretty cool if they encrusted the top of those rock peaks. Would look like a volcano. Oh. These are in 175 par.

This favia is in 125 par. I put a single polyp on top of an rock mound 2.5 years ago. It simply follows the surface downwards. It won’t plate and it’s not “out of control” even after 2.5 years

<former> lobophyllia also does great in 100-200 par. I literally glue them to the sides of rock, or sit them on the tops of other rocks. Extremely slow grower. Won’t outgrow it’s spot for many many years, won’t grow upward, won’t plate. Here are two of mine mouted as I described. Both are 150-200 par

And the other is an orange circular one in then next pic. Glued to the side of a vertical rock, just like the OP towers

Here’s another lobo. I haven’t picked s spot yet but it’s doing just fine in 140 par, just like the numbers OP was getting at the top of some of his rocks.

What else can we do? So many corals you seem to have never heard of.

Scoly can do fine elevated and in 150 ish par. Here’s an Aussie orange one I have. Won’t plate. Won’t encrust. Super super slow grower. Mounted to the side of my overflow

Could also cover the top in firework cloves. These encrust. But they are another one the many corals that encrust but don’t plate. This would do well up top also and is an easy coral that looks great and has some movement. Peaceful too

I could go on and on but I don’t think I have too. Please, don’t come at me with a know it all snarky attitude, if you don’t actually know it all.

Not all coral grows up

Plenty of corals, lps included, could be mounted to the upper parts of those rocks and have space

Plenty of encrusting coral won’t plate if mounted there

And even if OP wanted to mount a plating coral like a monti or a chalice, it’s incredibly easy to frag excess growth a few times a year. And then they can be sold easily or traded to a LFS for credit and OP can have their tank make some money easily and naturally

PS: some corals like being shaded so it wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world if he had a plating coral making a shaded spot. It opens the doors for nice blastos and acans.

 

[VintageReefer]

Actually the picture that I posted was cropped a bit to make it easier to edit in the par numbers. My tank is 24 high. I made my rock scape 14 high at the highest point, so I should be fine.

Even better. You could mount hammers or torch’s up high and add color and movement to the upper portion of the tank.

Plenty of options

 

[Dburr1014]

Wow. 7500+ posts and you haven’t heard of the concept of fragging.

So many corals you seem to have never heard of.

Please, don’t come at me with a know it all snarky attitude, if you don’t actually know it all.

Um, why do you think I never heard of fraging? I don't understand why you say this.

I have heard of all of them, again why do you say that also? I've kept most of what you listed.

And why do you think I'm coming at you?

I was nearly pointing out to the op that would be hard to put coral on top of that rock because in the picture it look like the
waterline was right above it by an inch.

Do you think you're the only one on this message board that can give advice? I was only trying to help him.

If I've done something to upset you I apologize.

But don't start coming at me son.
I'm not sure why your so wound up.

 

[Reefering1]

Op doesn't want any TRUE corals and cropped the picture so it really doesn't matter. BUT, I too thought those rocks shouldn't be at the surface like that, leaves no room for when he decides he wants to advance into acropora(real corals). There are many people here with opinions and experiences that are of value and should be heard. It's annoying/ diminishing of the community when one person feels like they must dominate every conversation. State your view, ask/answer questions and move on. You want to argue and bicker, there are a couple led threads going where you can do that

 

[Bruttall]

Thanks everyone. There is a brace across the middle causing some shadow. On that structure on the left I have a power head right above it which is blocking some light. I am sure that's the reason it shows only 110 on the top of the structure.

I am planning on keeping, zoas, acans, duncans, hammers, torches......

Torches are the bane of my existence. I keep Hammers, Frogspawn, Octospawn etc. Torches do not survive in my system. I think it is because most torches I see are wild, not aqua-cultured. So if I ever add another Torch, it will be an Aqua-cultured product.

 

[VintageReefer]

You can go back and reread the things you said and the way you said them. You will not gaslight me and play innocent, you directly quoted me, and acted as if what I said was incorrect and you were derogatory. You know what you were doing. Then proceeded in your reply to me, to list all sorts of things that wouldn’t work, based on false assumptions from your side.

Your attitude, while maybe unintentional, comes across in the way you respond. And I pickup on it again here, right after your apology, by calling me “son” which is used in a condescending manner, as if to express your superiority. What if I said, listen pops, look at the pictures closer before you type. See how that works ? You are aware.

If you really thought the water line on a 90g tank was only an inch above the rocks then I guess you should have looked at the op picture more carefully before telling them what they can’t do. Go one inch above the rock in the pic to what you suspect is the waterline. Then move far right. I guess they like chopping their powerheads in half and putting them in the display?

Then for some reason you go on a tangent about how encrusting things will plate and plating things will plate and everything will get shaded and that’s a no no. This is incorrect also, and you act like it would be terrible if they got plating items, and should be avoided entirely, as if nobody in the hobby deals with this by fragging a few times a year. Extremely easy with plating corals.

I gave examples of encrusting things that don’t plate to correct your incorrect advice. I gave examples of low profile corals and other corals that all could do well in those par ranges and location to correct your incorrect statement that all coral grows upwards. Now you play innocent like you don’t know why I would mention them. It was because you said nothing could be put there and the scape was poor. Again, based on an oversight from you on the tanks height.

You directly quoted me and listed all these no no’s and basically said gsp is the only thing they could grow on those rocks in a condescending manner.

If your tone was unintentional then I understand things come across different across a screen, but you made some incorrect assumptions on their tank and acted like it was fact, and then made incorrect broad statements about coral, and gave advice based on those incorrect assumptions.

But you can go back and take a look at the false statements you made, the incorrect assumptions you made, and also how your phrasing and tone comes across. Your response also completely overlooks all of this and takes no ownership. You focus on me and not yourself. If I’m responding to you the way I am, maybe you should think about why someone would respond to you in that way.

I do not think I’m the only one who can give advice. Plenty of people can and do give great advice. I stay quiet or I’ll chime in and agree. I understand people have different opinions. I respect that. However when I see advice given that’s clearly incorrect, I will step in to correct it so the op can have correct information and make their own choices, and not have choices made for them based on incorrect assumptions.

 

[Dburr1014]

You can go back and reread the things you said and the way you said them. You will not gaslight me and play innocent, you directly quoted me, and acted as if what I said was incorrect and you were derogatory. You know what you were doing. Then proceeded in your reply to me, to list all sorts of things that wouldn’t work, based on false assumptions from your side.

Your attitude, while maybe unintentional, comes across in the way you respond. And I pickup on it again here, right after your apology, by calling me “son” which is used in a condescending manner, as if to express your superiority. What if I said, listen pops, look at the pictures closer before you type. See how that works ? You are aware.

If you really thought the water line on a 90g tank was only an inch above the rocks then I guess you should have looked at the op picture more carefully before telling them what they can’t do. Go one inch above the rock in the pic to what you suspect is the waterline. Then move far right. I guess they like chopping their powerheads in half and putting them in the display?

Then for some reason you go on a tangent about how encrusting things will plate and plating things will plate and everything will get shaded and that’s a no no. This is incorrect also, and you act like it would be terrible if they got plating items, and should be avoided entirely, as if nobody in the hobby deals with this by fragging a few times a year. Extremely easy with plating corals.

I gave examples of encrusting things that don’t plate to correct your incorrect advice. I gave examples of low profile corals and other corals that all could do well in those par ranges and location to correct your incorrect statement that all coral grows upwards. Now you play innocent like you don’t know why I would mention them. It was because you said nothing could be put there and the scape was poor. Again, based on an oversight from you on the tanks height.

You directly quoted me and listed all these no no’s and basically said gsp is the only thing they could grow on those rocks in a condescending manner.

If your tone was unintentional then I understand things come across different across a screen, but you made some incorrect assumptions on their tank and acted like it was fact, and then made incorrect broad statements about coral, and gave advice based on those incorrect assumptions.

But you can go back and take a look at the false statements you made, the incorrect assumptions you made, and also how your phrasing and tone comes across. Your response also completely overlooks all of this and takes no ownership. You focus on me and not yourself. If I’m responding to you the way I am, maybe you should think about why someone would respond to you in that way.

I do not think I’m the only one who can give advice. Plenty of people can and do give great advice. I stay quiet or I’ll chime in and agree. I understand people have different opinions. I respect that. However when I see advice given that’s clearly incorrect, I will step in to correct it so the op can have correct information and make their own choices, and not have choices made for them based on incorrect assumptions.

Nope, not doing this with you.

Good day.

 

[Reefering1]

Just interjecting my unsolicited opinion on the scape... I do think its poorly planned. The structure on the left, for example, what is he going to do with that? No attacking op, it looks cool, but not very functional. Not his fault either, it takes some experience with corals, to plan proper mounting surfaces, space to grow, hiding places for fish, etc. It's easier to adjust now, while the tank is empty, rather than later when he runs out of space because half of his rock scape only provide vertical surface

 

[VintageReefer]

I agree that the left pillar seems to be more visually appealing vs practical. And that it is completely vertical, difficult to use space. I would rotate it clockwise so it leans on the main structure and forms another arch. Then it gains a lot of horizontal mounting space. Or they can leave it as is. It looks cool and fish can swim around it.

Aside from the tower rock, I see lots of horizontal space. It seems that there are many horizontal and diagonal flats that coral could be mounted to easily

 

[Reefering1]

Aside from the tower rock, I see lots of horizontal space. It seems that there are many horizontal and diagonal flats that coral could be mounted to easily

There are some places(about half) to mount.. the main structures look decent. I would try to flatten out and stack the vertical areas, making ledges/steps to get to the height. I like separate ledges because they help contain each coral from entrusting into each other while giving space to grow

 

[VintageReefer]

If OP likes the overall look if the scape, a little more more live rock could be added to create steps along some of those verticals you circled and then you would end up with small shelves at different heights giving more mounting areas also

Plenty of options. It’s a lot better than my first scape!